peteb

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1352905459' post='1869190'] Hmm .. I hadn't thought of this. I think I'm so used to rehearsing drama and comedy with people of both sexes it didn't really occur to me that the dynamic in the band is somewhat different. I don't think [b]he [/b]thinks he has a problem with it, but maybe there's something subconscious going on? And/or maybe I'm being a bit too tentative ... you know acting too much like a beginner?. He's always telling me to turn the bass [b]up [/b]for example (opposite problem from what a lot of you get, lol). I might be acting like I'm scared to be heard (again subconsciouly). There's also a bit of tension between him and Vox, but I think that's down to the fact that 1) Guitar can be a bit slow on the uptake and 2) Vox can be a cantankerous bugger at times. Drums just watches it all unfold and smiles to himself!! He's probably got the right idea [size=2]Edited to remove erroneous smiley[/size] [/quote] Oh, so it's possible that he doesn't have a problem with you being a girlie, but he's afraid that singer might have a go at him so he gets on your case so he doesn't look like the weakest link?? Quite a common occurance in some bands! If I may offer a tip, never be defensive in a band situation - don't give someone who may be a bit defensive themselves the opportunity to not give you the respect you deserve.....

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1352887364' post='1868743'] it's brilliant how a lesson lifts you and gives you more impetus to go on, isn't it? The other day our guitarist experessed suprise that I was still going fo lessons after more than 18 months. He said 'I would have thought you'd need to go out and do stuff on your own now'. To which I replied 'Well I am, I'm in this band aren't I? But that doesn't mean that there isn't more to learn'. He just didn't get it though. The fact is the more I more I learn, the more I realise I don't know! I intend to keep going for lessons for as long as I can still lift a bass. Or until my teacher takes out a restraining order - whichever is the soonest [/quote] My mate is a drummer who has been playing for well over 20 years, has been in bands with most of the better musicians around here and is generally well respected yet he still has a lesson every week (when he isn’t gigging). I’ve played in several bands with him, always with very experienced (i.e. knocking on a bit) players, and no one ever sees fit to comment on him still taking lessons! I could be wrong, but it occurs to me (from this and other posts) that your guitarist maybe has a bit of a problem playing in a band with a girl!

It's generally a song that you can feel easy enough if the guy behind the kit knows it, but as you say, a drummer's nightmare!

I will always count if I need to! I suppose that technically you are right that the guitar solo is 17 bars long, but that is because he holds the last note for an extra bar at the end. I think that for someone trying to learn to play the part, it is probably easier to think of it as 16 bars made up of eight 2 bar phrases with a sustained note at the end. Personally I've always thought of it as a set filler, generally when I'm playing deps, and haven't analysed it that much. I've gigged it many times (as I most likely will again on Saturday night depping for a band) and the above approach has always worked fine for me! PS. Evil Undead's transcription above is pretty close to what I play.....

[quote name='Evil Undead' timestamp='1352836855' post='1868225'] This is what I play. I couldn't tab the rhythm but its easy enough to figure that bit out. It's definitely not right but sounds fine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------5--6--7---5--6--7------------------------------------------ -7-----7--5-------------------------4--5--6--7-----7--5--7--8--9--9----- ----0---------------------------------------------0--------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -10--12--0--4--5--7------7--5---------0--0--4--5--0--4--5--7---7--5- -------------------------0---------3--2--------------------------------0--- --------------5--6--7--------------------------------------------------------- ---5--6--7------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------4--5--6--7------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [/quote] Close enough for jazz (as the old saying goes)!!

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1352831638' post='1868107'] It's odd. From memory as above it's just chromatics but it's not exactly 16 bars long. [/quote] Count it out in your head - a straightforward 16 bars (divided into 2 sections of 8 bars)!

[quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1352813782' post='1867693'] Can anyone help me work out what is going on under the guitar solo? I have worked out the first few bars of the solo, but it seems to go off on a tangent with those chromatic runs. [/quote] You are pretty much on the right lines anyway re the tangential chromatic runs! Try breaking the passage down into bits. The solo is 16 bars long, so think of it as eight phrases of 2 bars each. The first four notes of each 2 bar phrase are the same, generally followed by three chromatic runs of three notes each. Note that a couple of the phrases in the first eight bars are repeated second time around! It's not the most precise bass part around, so it won't matter too much if you get the runs in the wrong order or put you're own in of you feel like it, as long as you keep that chromatic feel going......

[color=#222222]Similar thing happened at a gig in the 80s when we were supporting a band with Frankie Miller’s old guitar player (Ray someone or other). Apparently it’s a bit of a common problem with guitars that have necks made from mahogany. The thing was that it was a 59 Les Paul worth an absolute fortune![/color] [color=#222222][/color] [color=#222222]We put him onto a guy in Bradford who sorted it out and did a really good job! Still, it must have knocked thousands of the value of the guitar, which was pretty much the guy’s pension……[/color]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1351029441' post='1846530'] I play a bass, people ask me to be in their bands, I must be a bass player [/quote] As far as I am concerned I am a ‘musician’ generally, but first and foremost I’m a bass player! I play a little bit of classical guitar, for my own amusement and for family & friends, etc. However, I wouldn’t dream of playing classical guitar at a gig in front of an audience of strangers, whereas I regularly will with a bass!

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1351007309' post='1846129'] Maybe '[i]that [/i]guy' knows you personally; nothing to do with your bass playing..? [/quote] Perhaps there is a more personal reason? Years ago a guy used to come and see a band I was in and always used talk to the guitarist afterwards, telling him that the band was great but should get rid of the bass player as he was crap! We had to explain that perhaps he was a little bit biased in his assessment of my abilities, possibly because I had slept with his girlfriend!

[quote name='jaydentaku' timestamp='1350593656' post='1841133'] Ah, The Tyne. Lovely bar. I would go, but I will be setting off to practice at 4, which happens to be about 600 metres from that very pub. You will no doubt be able to hear us. [/quote] Pop in for a pint when you take a break! [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1350594561' post='1841148'] Y'know, I have nowt planned, and the Tyne is one of my favourite gigs, so I might just pop along for a bit... [/quote] Cool - be good to meet you again..... Nice to hear that it's a good gig, looking forward to it!

Just been told that now we're starting at 4.00pm after the football......

[color=#222222]If any inhabitants of the Geordie Delta fancy a beer and some blues this Sunday afternoon, I will be playing with Rhythm Zoo at the Tyne Bar in Newcastle (1 Maling Street NE6 1LP) – kick off supposedly at 3.00pm[/color] [color=#222222][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][/color] [color=#222222]Come and say hi if you come down (I’ll be the one in the corner holding a bass guitar)…..[/color] [color=#222222][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][/color] [color=#222222][url="http://www.thetyne.com/"][color="#0000ff"]http://www.thetyne.com/[/color][/url][/color] [color=#222222][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][/color] [color=#222222][url="http://rhythm-zoo.com/"][color="#0000ff"]http://rhythm-zoo.com/[/color][/url][/color] [color=#222222][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][/color] [font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][color="#000000"] [/color][/size][/font]

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1350288847' post='1836719'] Yep - very true. The fact that other people value my time and aquired skills enough to reward me financially - a real and proven recogniton of my professional level , self -achieved technical standards and attitude - means more to me than any actual fee. It's a feeling of satisfaction I can take to the jam nights , fundraisers and other loss making projects that I choose to get involved in as well as to the paid gigs. If anyone wants to always play for free - for whatever reason and whether covers or originals - and by doing so help to make profit for an individual , or individuals , in business purely to make money - and that player is happy for that situation to continue however skilled and popular they become ......... there is a problem in that person's reasoning. I would have no respect for their attitude and be wary of their motivations. There is nothing wrong at all with playing for fun - waiving fees for promotional purposes or exposure (after first checking the motivations of those asking you to do so) or a hundred other reasons - but purely allowing others to make money off your back and not wanting your fair share is not just wrong , it's stupid. [/quote] I think that the good Doctor has summed it up nicely! To state the obvious one more time, no half decent covers band routinely play for no money.....

The reason for insisting on being paid is not [b]just[/b] about money! In a few weeks I’m playing at a blues club in the Cotswolds, which means half a day off work, a round trip of over 360 miles and a cheap hotel. Therefore I’m losing money as it’s costing me £50 in petrol and £20 for the room before I even buy a pint or any food when we’re getting paid £250 for a 4 piece band. However, there is [b]no way I would do it without being paid[/b]. The reason I am doing it is because it will raise the band’s profile on a national circuit and I know it will be a good event. The promoter has invested in paying £600 for two bands (I understand that the headliners are on £350) and is expecting to make a decent profit on the night and therefore won’t scrimp on a few quid for promoting the night and will make a point of posting it on facebook, local gig guides, putting up posters, etc. Last year I played in Nottingham with a different band where we were on the door take. We got there and the promoter hadn’t bothered to publicise it at all and no one knew that there was a band playing. But then again, he didn’t stand to lose money himself so why should he bother?? I don’t know a single decent band that would play a pub gig for nothing unless there was a good reason…….

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1350034022' post='1833704'] Its not up to him to judge whether its a legacy or not. [/quote] History will be the final judge but he has more right than you or me [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1350035736' post='1833733'] You mentioned earlier that there was something 'magical' about them. One of the biggest contributing factors to this - which Page and Grant got spot-on - is their reluctance to do TV shows, release singles etc. etc. all the way through to a refusal by some of the band to do a reunion tour. It all feeds the fire of the Zeppelin myth. It hurts - I adore them and I'd love to see 'em. [/quote] Absolutely

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1350033726' post='1833698'] I think its selfish at worst and self depreciating at best. The band has already acknowledged their impact on popular music, they're every bit as significant as The Beatles. They should share it...if nothing it would cement their place in musical immortality. [/quote] Dunno about selfish, it's his legacy and up to him to decide what to do with it! However, it is a shame......

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1350025690' post='1833564'] Thanks I love Led Zep and I'm not into rock at all. But there was something magical about them. So much power and professionalism from three people. I REALLY wish they'd reform and do a few more concerts. I'd fly from NZ for a ticket. I disagree with Plants perception of raking over the coals. Its more about sharing a legacy with a new generation. I wasn't able to attend concerts when Led Zep were in their prime. They could be cementing their legacy rather than being a shadow of their former selves. This is about being generous, not about protecting integrity. [/quote] Not that I disagree but the trouble is that Zep always has an air of mistique about them! It seems that Plant feels that a full blown reunion will diminish that whereas a one off gig out of nowhere just helps to sustain the legacy! He may be right, but I for one would love the chance to see LZ live.....

Thanks for that......

Some of their set list doesn't really cry out '4 piece brass section' to me! Sex On Fire with a full brass section - different anyway......

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1349946837' post='1832484'] I guess its easier to enjoy playing this stuff for fun when you are generally satisfied with the stuff you do all of the time. If I did 200 great gigs a year, doing 2 tribute gigs or whetever may float my boat. It is the idea of doing the 200 gigs of this stuff that puts me off (mind you, doing ANY of the gigs by the three people you named would not really work for me either! ). [/quote] Different things for different people - playing Van Halen songs with Paul Gilbert would be my idea of heaven...!

[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1349905817' post='1832220'] One problem I have with all of this is that the ones who claim bands playing for free take money from "better" bands, in the same breath will say that if you don't charge, you're obviously crap and who would want you to play for them anyway? It's two faced and both faces are wrong. [/quote] If I put a band together to play pubs and go out for, say £200 to £250 (average pub gig fee these days around here), then we will not competing with the likes of Jake or Doddy who will be playing, for example, corporate / function gigs that pay much better. But neither will we be competing with bands that will play for free or go out for £80, as they will be playing the pubs that the better local bands avoid because they won’t pay the going rate! The problem is that this starts to distort the market for live music, which is rather fragile at the moment. The new landlord at an established music venue may be tempted to think that he can get away with paying bands less as that is what the the pub down the road is doing and then wonders why his attendances are dropping alarmingly. He then stops putting on bands and changes to karaoke or some other abomination before going out of business six months later. Similarly punters wonder why the quality of bands isn’t as good as it used to be and stay in on a Saturday night with a DVD rather than going out to watch live music……….

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1349876875' post='1831639'] I can't ever get past the fact that a great cover is only a cover. There is a simple buzz to be got from a job well done but it has always remained a shallow victory for me. [/quote] I appreciate that it might not be the same as creating your own material but surely you must admit that it is great fun to get to grips with the music that your favourite bands made. Even players of the caliber of Paul Gilbert, Billy Sheehan & Mike Portnoy (along with various singers) get together to play tribute gigs of their heroes (Led Zep, The Who & Rush, etc) just for fun! Some of the best moments of my recent musical life have been in a rehearsal room playing in a band with a s*** hot guitarist jamming Highway Star or working out Led Zep, Van Halen & Randy Rhodes era Ozzy material note for note, seeing how it was put together and knowing that you are doing these great pieces of music justice. Almost gives you an idea of what it was like to have been in that rehearsal studio when the songs that made you want to play in the first place were put together! Sometimes it is satisfying enough to simply know that you are standing in the footsteps of giants…..