peteb

There you go - what works for one player may not for another! I would love Rob to work with a bass player who has got a good idea about getting different bass sounds and produce an amp with more headroom and possibly different voicings! I'm sure that would be great..... PS. Good luck to the OP whatever you do and let us know how you get on - I for one would be very interested.....

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1357859846' post='1929826'] But Barefaced, Bergantino and Mesa Boogie do. So mixed speakers can work if you get the right ones. [/quote] Cabs with mixed speakers may sound alright, but you have to trade that off against the efficiency / phasing issues.....

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1357858920' post='1929802'] Someone else said something along the lines of "Picture soundwaves like water ripples. Drop a big stone & a small stone in the water at the same time & you get different sized ripples moving at different speeds & hitting off one another. Drop 2 the same size & all the ripples move together". Makes sense to me. [/quote] Good analogy....

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1357858055' post='1929786'] I can't really see why a live situation is particularly different to a Hifi one. It's all about reproducing music isn't it? Sure, there might be loads of differences in the listening environments, but is that really the reason for choosing speaker sizes? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't really understand it. [/quote] I never even considered it until I had a discussion with someone who did understand the science and I tried it for myself. Playing in a band situation, you are only a component of the overall sound. It is a lot more efficient to have (for example) eight ten inch speakers all moving together rather than a 410 and a cab with a 15 inch speaker moving at different speeds, which is bound to have small but noticable phasing issues.....

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1357856343' post='1929742'] If mixing speaker sizes is such a bad thing, how come almost all Hifi speakers/professional monitors are built with different size drivers? [/quote] I only say that I have found thru trial and error that using multiple same size speakers has compelling phasing / efficiency benefits in a live situation. I don't think that is such an important issue for hifi speakers or monitors.....

I played a protoype live a few times at a local blues festival last year and to be honest they are not for me! Maybe it will suit you better, but make sure that you give it a good try out first. I've met Rob and he is a nice guy who knows his stuff, but I think that he has to really think thru what bass players need from an amp. His guitar amps are [b]very, very [/b]good.....!

[quote name='kevindoudie' timestamp='1357845752' post='1929513'] SO after all this basically two 4 by 10 cabs are better than a 4 by 10 and one 15 cab?? [/quote] er.... yes!

[color=#222222]To be honest, I have a strange relationship with Fender basses and I don’t think that I am alone in that! [/color] [color=#222222]When I was younger I had a few Precisions, but I always found that I changed bridges, p/ups, etc to get them to be something like I wanted. Eventually I moved onto more modern designs and ended up playing Warwicks in rock bands quite happily for many years. Then, I got a gig playing in a really good blues band where the Warwick just looked plain wrong! Therefore I got a good quality Jazz clone (Mayones) that played and sounded great, after I had worked on it fora bit (new bridge & p/ups, etc of course)! :-) [/color] [color=#222222]Then I made the mistake of getting a s/h USA Jazz Bass as a spare. I have to confess that I chose it partly out of sentiment, as it was virtually identical to the bass in a music shop window that I always wanted as a kid when I first started playing (not many other brands can have that sort of appeal). However, I very quickly found out that there were significant issues with it – I couldn’t get a low enough action and there was something about it that just didn’t sound right.[/color] [color=#222222]However, the bandleader immediately wanted me to use it all the time, saying that it sounded better than the Mayones when it certainly didn't. Eventually I sorted the problems out; getting the frets dressed, changing the pickups, installing an active circuit and putting on a new bridge (it turned out that the main problem with it was that the original factory installed bridge had been fitted badly). It sounded ace, but obviously completely different from how it was when I first got it. The bandleader still thought it was somehow better than the Mayones (it isn’t).[/color] [color=#222222]I am pretty sure that the only reason that he was so keen on me using it all the time is because it had ‘Fender’ written on the headstock…..[/color]

[quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1357596210' post='1925228'] Dont listen to em mate. Find a bass [i]you [/i]like and forget names and image. I would say it's a status thing but that would just confuse everybody [/quote] In an ideal world you are, of course quite right, but…… [quote name='ambient' timestamp='1357666082' post='1926343'] I know what producers, engineers, MD's and bandleaders like to see, and it's not some strange shaped, pointy thing looking like a conservationists nightmare. [/quote] Unfortunately the above is true! Image is important, like it or not, and in many genres plenty of bandleaders, producers and especially punters think that an electric bass should look like and (to a lesser extent) sound like a Fender....!

Electro Music in Doncaster ([url="http://www.electromusic.co.uk/"]http://www.electromusic.co.uk/[/url]) used to be great - a bit hit and miss now but probably worth a visit......

I believe that it is a Euphonic Audio rig - probably a iamp800 & 2x12 cab Sounds great on the clip (and note that the cab is mic'd) but whenever I've plugged into an EA amp I have never got on with them!

At that price I don't really think that you can go wrong! Very well made cabs and good specs for the money....

I've got the 810 fridge and it is a good, efficient, well spec'd cab - great value for money! Never seen the smaller bass cabs thru....

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1357300563' post='1920534'] Spot on, all backline should only be at the volume of the drums, being played unamplified. [/quote] That is what I was always taught, that the onstage level should be dtermined by how loud the drums are [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1357300563' post='1920534'] The only downside to this is when you have a drummer who is incredibly loud, and can`t adjust their playing. [/quote] However, it should be noted that all good rock drummers, without exception, are pretty loud! If you don't believe me go on youtubbe and look up any top drummer (they are always doing clinics or tutorials - they can't help themselves). For example, Kenny Aronoff, a top session player and a trained orchestral percussionist, is brutally loud! [quote name='VTypeV4' timestamp='1357315845' post='1920919'] In all fairness, I don't mind what guitarists use as long as they're using whatever they have appropriatly and not trying to murder everyones ear drums.. [/quote] I agree with everything that you have said apart from your initial (possibly flippant) statement about half stacks! :-) The point is that the job of the sound engineer is to help the band sound good so that they can put on a performance for the benefit of the audience. This requires an element of compromise – no one wants to see even the greatest band if there is a terrible FOH sound – but if the band has a good onstage sound that they are happy with, a good sound engineer should be able to use that to get a great sound out front.....

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1357239460' post='1919716'] They only made "Super Strat" style guitars for a comparatively short period - the vast majority of their models are far more Gibson like in terms of construction methods. [/quote] Very true - was at a guitar show recently where someone had got together a few Gibbo style Hamers that were great guitars at a very reasonable price! The super strats that they were produced were among some of the best guitars I have ever picked up, could never work out why they went went out of fashion so drastically! [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1357244216' post='1919840'] Yes they did, and Jol Dantzig absolutely refused to make any more guitars of the Chaparal/California/Diablo/Centura style even though plenty of people waved lots of money at him to do so. He took Hamer back to their core values & designs and they then started to produce the best guitars they ever made until they were taken over. [/quote] Possibly the reason for the start of their demise??

[quote name='VTypeV4' timestamp='1357245902' post='1919898'] The top players use the equipment they have proportionally and appropriatly whether it's a beat up Fender Princeton or a Boogie rectifier. 50w and 2x12s are borderline in the Rigger. And for the record I've done enough 'big' gigs and tours over the years where 4x12 and 100w are fine.. Learn to deal with them? Interseting. [/quote] [color=#222222][color=#222222]Not meaning to offend anyone but I’m intrigued why you would dislike working with valve half stacks (used proportionally & appropriately of course) if you have that sort of background??[/color][/color]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1357230067' post='1919459'] In short , yes it is possible to better or worse than other artists in the same discipline . Art involves a certain degree of craft - you need knowledge and aquired skills , and it is possible for some people to be better at those skills than others in one way or another . Take playing the bass guitar for example . It's not just a question of expressing yourself , moreso it's about learning the intellectual and manual skills neccesary to conceive of and execute the basslines . If you don't know how to play , it's like someone who can't read ,write or speak attempting to write a novel . All you would be making is a racket , not expressing yourself in any tangible way . The whole pesonal expression thing when it comes to art is a bit of a red herring . Human beings cannot help but express themselves in almost everything they create . It is an inherent part of the human condition for them to do so . There is no need to self- conciously promulgate personal expression as an ends in itself . The idea of the artist as a autonomous creative force with their work born out of an internal creative genius is a fairly recent and highly romantic idea . Ironically enough , in the ages before this idea became prevailent the artist was considered more of a craftsman than an inspired creative force , and artists learned the skills of their chosen creative medium in the same way any apprentice learns a trade . The higher expression of aesthetic beauty was largely an afterthought . [/quote] Well said that man!

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1357235445' post='1919582'] Fixed [/quote] Brings back memories of supporting a band who had exactly the same backline as that....!!

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1357231464' post='1919503'] Precisely. I've heard that Hamer made great guitars---but I don't think I've [i]ever [/i]seen one in the flesh. Not at a gig, not in a shop, not at a mates' house. [/quote] I have and they were indeed great guitars (never actually played one of their basses thru) I think that they started to go out of fashion along with the other 'super strat' makers when more traditional looking instruments went out of fashion, propelling Fender back to domination of the market! Fender bought them (presumably at a reasonable price) to eliminate a possible competitor and protect their brand!

[quote name='VTypeV4' timestamp='1357224473' post='1919343'] As an FOH engineer, Marshall heads and four twelves are the number one enemy.. [/quote] The trouble is that the top guitar players who do the big tours nearly all use all big valve heads and 412s! Probably best to learn how to deal with them if you want to do the bigger gigs......

I often use a LM3 thru a Bergantino HS410 Not that keen on MB cabs myself.....

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1357158282' post='1918446'] Depends on stage size, IMO. Sealed 810 aren't typically boomy so a good choice from that POV. I am sure 810's look the part...as would a row of them, but maybe they only run 1. If you are going to have your own foldback and wedges etc..you might as well have your own stack/rig as you sort out your sound with familiar kit. The monitor man will soon tell you if your running into his mix. I posted another thread about a 3k backline... and can't see anyone actually running that no matter what is on stage. For the venues we do, I always ask what mix I can have prior to the gig and if I can have my own mix, I am still sceptical even if they say 4 , 8 mixes. so I take a small 2x210 rig capable of filling the stage, that way monitors become less of an issue for me and as long as I get everyone else in the mix, I am happy. Depends on the lenght of the soundcheck and how long you get. If I could find a nice 610, I'd use that...but I don't do enough gigs to warrant that I wouldn't approach gigs with just enough theoretical power... I will want more in hand. Funnily enough, I find bass players on the same gig seem to struggle with their combos and small rigs as they have to wind them up so much... it is such a compromise sound. Of course, the FOH handles it outfront but they have such a painful stage sound as far as I can hear... If the monitors can take the load that is ok...but the thing that is giving them the problem with their combo is going to be the thing that will upset the monitors. Basically, some people need too much bass in their sound or they can't play... All a recipe for disaster in a variable room, IMO. I don't think I would want to do 2-300 people with just vox, tbh.... gtr and keys goes thru the P.A for pubs as a minimum. If I did more of these large stage gigs, I would have the stage size and rig type ratio more off pat... Off the top of my head, an 810 would be required to 'fill' a 100m sq stage with full monitoring. If the monitoring was top notch and you had a stage mon mix, maybe you could rethink the fridge idea. ..but by this time the fridge idea has run away with you In an ideal world, you would 'rehearse' your kit or you rely on the hire co to bring you their backline... which brings us back round to the 810 as that is what they use and know well. [/quote] Good post! I was speaking to a mate of mine over the holidays who runs quite a big PA hire company (works with the odd household name, does big installations, etc) and he reckons that the easiest band for a sound engineer to work with is one that has a good onstage sound! I think that the good guys can deal with a bit of bleed (within reason) if the band is happy and the engineer has a good sound as a reference to work with. FWIW – I used to mix different speaker sizes but switched to just using 10s when I realised that the advantages of having all the speakers in phase outweighed the those of mixing the sounds of speakers of different sizes…..

[quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1356692280' post='1912401'] There are more rotten bands around than useless bass players. Most rock bands are unbelievably, stunningly dull and boring...but are completely oblivious to it. [/quote] But see above re. Cliff Williams, Carmine Rojas, etc. Often the bass player's job is to play very simple parts to make the rest of the band sound good!

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1356638024' post='1911960'] You're effectively saying that being addicted to alcohol and being addicted to cocaine are essentially the same thing. [/quote] Are you saying that it isn't??

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1356028743' post='1906043'] You see, Lynyrd Skynyrd haven't been a band for a while now, so when talking about them, you should always use past tense. It doesn't work for Lynyrad Skynyrd, because nothing does, although a lot of things [i]worked [/i]for them. Merry [s]christmas[/s] end of the world [/quote] [color=#222222]Sorry to contradict you pal but lynyrd skynyrd do still indeed exist as a band – still putting out records and touring and everything! [/color] [color=#222222][/color] [color=#222222][url="http://www.play.com/Music/CD/4-/35421699/Last-Of-A-Dyin-Breed/Product.html?searchstring=lynyrd+skynyrd&searchsource=0&searchtype=musicall&urlrefer=search&strefer=musicall&searchfilters=s%7blynyrd+skynyrd%7d%2bc%7b34%7d%2b"][color="#0000ff"]http://www.play.com/Music/CD/4-/35421699/Last-Of-A-Dyin-Breed/Product.html?searchstring=lynyrd+skynyrd&searchsource=0&searchtype=musicall&urlrefer=search&strefer=musicall&searchfilters=s%7blynyrd+skynyrd%7d%2bc%7b34%7d%2b[/color][/url][/color] [color=#222222]Whether this is actually a good thing is another discussion!![/color]