peteb

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1334402458' post='1615683'] I had a valve Fender Twin, and a bunch of expensive effects. The POD is way more versatile and reliable, portable, powerful, etc. But the fact is, I LOVE the sounds I get from from it. It really is that simple. I don't need to justify anything other than that. You are clutching at straws Pete. I do understand why people are distrustful of new technology, however. [/quote] I don't think that I am clutching at straws nor am I distrustful of new technology. I remember the days when we used to go out with a van full of really big and heavy PA gear that you piled up to the ceiling. Now, you can get better results from a powered 1x10 cab each side and one 1x12 sub. I have no wish to go back to using a ton of outmoded gear when the newer lighter kit is better. I often gig with a mark bass head these days - it is not quite as good as my mesa boogie, but it is still a great amp and a hell of a lot lighter! Whatever, people should use whatever works best for them (compromise or not). All I can say is that in my world of loud guitars and Bonham worshiping drummers - modelling amps just do not cut it! Lots of guys have tried to use Line 6 amps, etc but they all seem to get rid of them pretty quickly, must be a reason for that.....

[color=#222222]It seems to me that there is an awful lot of justification going in this thread. For example, Silldx mentioned that the engineer at a recording session didn’t use the best mic to record the vocalist so that he could get a better live performance by allowing her to play her keyboard at the same time. His mate then piles in and says this was, in fact, an inspired choice and gave some spurious reason that her voice is somehow better suited to the lesser mic. This, of course, is b0110cks – the engineer was forced to compromise and didn’t use the better mic for practical reasons.[/color] [color=#222222][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][/color] [color=#222222]If you are trying to get to gigs on public transport or you have a hairdresser’s car that you can’t carry any gear in, then a pod seems a practical solution, as is carrying one bass in a gigbag. If you then work out how to get the best out of it you may then manage convince yourself that you got the pod because it is better than the amp it attempts to imitate, rather than the real reason, which is that you didn’t want to have to lug a heavy amp around![/color] [color=#222222][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][/color]

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1334328940' post='1614706'] Maybe a blessing in disguise in a round about sort of way. If he gets an endorsement that'll be a nice bonus and lift his spirits a bit. [/quote] It would take more than some gear being stolen to dampen Paddy's spirits for long, always a silver lining - the most upbeat guy that I've ever met! Gets a bit annoying at times...!

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' timestamp='1334326099' post='1614616'] I'm joining this party a bit late, but I've done various sessions (live and studio) with modelling and various amps (guitar and bass) and I don't like modelling. IMO it's like buying a corsa then putting a ferrari body on it and saying it's just as good as the real thing. All of the manipulation that happens inside modelling units is manipulation, it's not "natural" sounds. The biggest problem for me is that live, high gain sounds never fit in the mix properly, they seem to behave like scooped tones where they can sound great on their own but when they go into a mix they disappear. The same thing happens in the studio but the engineer obviously has a lot more control over the sound, there's layers etc. Given the choice between amp or modelling, it's a no brainer for me. Modelling for clean tones is better than modelling for distortions, generally clean modelling is pretty good nowadays, it's still not as good as a decent amp though IMO. If you want a variety of sounds and/or can't take an amp to gigs (e.g. you don't have a car and rely on public transport) then modelling is a good solution. If you're in a studio and people always turn up with crap amps then having modelling software rather than spending thousands on amps then having to store them, modelling is a good solution. That's all it is to me currently though, a solution, I just don't think they match up to a real amp if you have that option available. [/quote] Exactly, you have just articulated what I have been trying to say - great post...!

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1334317981' post='1614372'] My worst nightmare !!! No words can explain feelings on this one but hopefully the gear is still ok and that maybe someone will know who the scum was. Hope all is well All the very best Dave [/quote] Cheers Dave Obviously it seems like a big thing at the time and it p155es you off but no one died and all it costs is a bit of money and inconvenience so you have to put it in a bit of prospective. Still, great to get it back - luck of the Irish eh...! Funnily enough, he's just arranged to buy another amp, even going as far as negotiating an "endorsement deal" to get it a bit cheaper. Dunno what he will do now??

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1334317085' post='1614350'] We recorded live, in the studio mate In the same room, stage set up, no separation. No overdubs. no fixes (except one two bar section for me where I played the most rancid, foetid note I have ever set finger on). [/quote] But I assume that you were not playing in a large room thru a PA with an audience present?? The music you produced went straight to disk where it could be manipulated by the engineer. I recognise the playing the rancid, foetid note bit - I used to hate recording studios!

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1334316122' post='1614322'] As before, sound = sound. Bar various mic'ing techniques (which can obviously be discounted ) and double tracking what you can do in the studio you can do live [/quote] Sorry but you're wrong! For example, in a studio you could (if you wish) put a guitar amp in a separate room and record three or more strategicly spaced mics whereas live you will just close mic the edge of the speaker. Live you cannot isolate instruments like you can in a studio, you will have a guitar cab next to a noisy drum kit and the sound is going out of a big PA rather than straight to disk.

Latest news - police have just found Paddy's gear dumped in Ovenden! No idea what condition it is in but great news.......

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1334315601' post='1614303'] But if it can sound as good or better recorded then it can sound as good or better live. Sound is sound, whether it is on a disc or a PA system live [/quote] Recording in a studio and live are two completely different things

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1334313815' post='1614244'] We did some live studio recording with Ash Evans at his studio a couple of weeks ago [i](He was first to record Noah & the Whale, and Mumford & Sons, and has since worked with Emmy the Great, Sparkadia, and ASH to name a few. He is 1/3 of the band [url="http://http//soundcloud.com/emperoryes"]Emperor Yes[/url], does live sound for Three Trapped Tigers and CLARK and was responsible for setting up the [url="http://houseofstrange.wordpress.com/"]House of Strange[/url].). [/i]His approach is very quick and dirty. Hardly gives a sh*t about equipment (he has so good stuff though) and mic placement (as long as everything is phased properly). His philosphy is that the performance is everything, and that sound is a bit of an illusion, you can make a good performance sound great with reasonable sound quality, but the best sound quality can't make up for a poor or under-energised performance. On his desk he had an original Roland Space Echo. I said 'WOW! Those are very sought after' He said it's a piece of sh*t that takes 15 minutes after powering up to make remotely usable, and thinks free digital plug ins for delays are way better. He didn't care what amps our guitarist used as long as they were reasonably quiet - tried an old Vox (too noisy) went with a little Fender combo that was newish and just threw a mic in front of it. No pissing about. Told the four violinists to use their pickups, the mics only recording was poor, the pickups and a mic sounded so much better. He really liked the POD sounds I had so he just got me a big monitor and a tiny 4 channel mixer to play through in the room but the signal went strainght to the desk from the POD. Dums miced very simply (bass and snare miced with two Coles for overheads. Set them up and left them, no messing.) All this straight onto Logic Pro. I've heard the recording completely unmixed and the sounds are lovely. We are all delighted. Can't wait for the mixed versions. [/quote] [color=#222222]Just to be clear, I am talking about what an amp sounds like in a large room next to a drum kit in a gigging situation![/color] [color=#222222]My mate runs a company that has done many large tours / events (David Bowie and Glyndebourne Opera spring to mind) but make most of their money kitting out airport lounges throughout Europe, where a convincing guitar tone is not a factor but efficiency and pure sound quality most definitely are. [/color] [color=#222222]From what I understand, some studio engineers get misty eyed over old analogue gear while others prefer digital plug-ins but they pretty much all use pro-tools or similar these days. A lot of engineers would be pickier over recording the guitar than your guy (especially for rock) but they will all generally prefer the bass to go straight into the desk. Basically, whatever they find gets the best results for them as quickly as possible – I am not saying that there is not a role for digital stuff when recording, just that I don’t think that it is as good live…..[/color]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1334313563' post='1614233'] Surely mic placement has the same or more influence on guitar tone than the actual amp [/quote] Maybe in the studio but not in live situations from what I've been given to understand

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1334312027' post='1614188'] That's quite a big generalisation but being a sound engineer still means sod all. I like to count myself from within the ranks although would not consider myself "pro". I've tended to leave the mixing behind a little bit and get more into the deep science behind fourier analysis and mic placement as of late. [/quote] There are a lot of people who call themselves sound engineers who couldn't mix concrete! They tend to be the ones who are the most nerdy about gear, mic placements and special techniques - the pros a lot less so....

[quote name='WHUFC BASS' timestamp='1334311872' post='1614185'] A technically superb player undoubtedly. But I think the words, feel, soul, lack of and an uncanny knack to cultivate an ego the size of an aircraft hanger just doesn't make me warm to him one tiny iota. [/quote] As much as I can appreciate his guitar playing, I don't think that his albums are any good and I certainly wouldn't want to go out for a beer with him.....

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1334311515' post='1614171'] Being a sound engineer also means sod all. Sound engineers are still biased. You think bassists can be anal about gear? Go talk to a group of sound engineers! Nerdy goodness I tell ya! [/quote] Depends on the sound engineer (I know a lot of the b*ggers) - generally the better that they are the less nerdy they are...........

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1334311553' post='1614174'] If you like Bach compositions played too fast; the Liverpool Phil does the same thing... [/quote] I think that a lot of people can't get past the fact that he is a complete prat and that his songs are awful...! However, his playing is undoubtedly awesome!

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1334310908' post='1614149'] I have 29 years of gigging experience in my leather trousers, so f*** 'im. On your second point, my POD sounds so f***ing cool live (and in the studio), with guitar or bass. I heard my guitar through a decent sized PA last Saturday as it happens, it sounded glorious. The sound guy had a very large grin when I ripped into Whole Lotta Love in the soundcheck. And my clean sounds were rich and delicious. YMMV. [/quote] Speaking with my [b]34 [/b]years of gigging experience (I started young) - I still don't like 'em.... The best guitar player I have ever payed with is also a professional sound engineer. Funily enough, he doesn't like modelling amps and uses a dual rectifier that he modded himself......

[quote name='Doctor J' timestamp='1334229818' post='1612823'] When you meet a drummer and if they say they like Bonham and/or Tony Thompson. you're usually onto a good thing. [/quote] I think that virtually every good drummer that I have played with is a massive Bonham fan! Indeed, I understand that Tony Thompsonwas a massive fan.... [quote name='WHUFC BASS' timestamp='1334232089' post='1612903'] And when you hear a guitarist saying "I'm a huge Malsteem fan" its time to boot him up the 'arris and get the hell out of the gaff. [/quote] Nothing wrong with a guitarist being a Malmsteen fan - if you listen to him, Yngwie is a breathtaking player and actually very musical.... It's when the guitar player wants to start copying his songwriting or attitude that you need to worry!

[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1334298321' post='1613905'] Mind you, he may have a point about these four walled bedroom commanders, but he would do well not to insult them too much as they are probably the only people buying his records, and the people who leap to defend him on the internet. These same people he mocks are sadly the ones who probably rate him the most, with their fawning idolatry ("he played at my college..."). In his rebuttal, he also states that they don't come to his shows to dance or bring girls. If you've gone to a fusion show to dance or pick up birds you've probably gone to the wrong show, especially these days when most fusion is so undanceable. He seems to want to portray himself as some sort of hip, fly jazz musician who is too cool for his fans. Quite frankly, I think he cheapens himself by insulting his fans in the way he has. So what if some music college geek wants to come and watch him play live, and doesn't want to dance? They paid the door fee, didn't they? Ultimately, it sounds to me like a case of ego surpassing talent, something which is quite unnattractive, especially when your name is regularly dropped in a crowd of far superior bassists and musicians. That said, someone above mentioned that they weren't much of a fusion fan and yet they found that Weather Report appealed. The state of fusion has long been a point of debate, but I don't think it's especially healthy now. The current crowd could do with looking at the records of the 70's and 80's, where the bands were writing songs and making music that stayed with you rather than washing over you. As I have mentioned earlier, I think the scene of the 'bass hero' is in a pretty sad state these days too, as there is no-one really making an impact like Stuart Hamm, Victor Wooten, Mark King, Michael Manring, Jaco Pastorius etc etc have in days gone by. Janek himself makes it pretty clear that he isn't really interested in making music for musicians unless you're buying drinks and dancing at his shows! Not to say that fusion is crap today, or that the day of the bass hero is gone. But everything could do with a lift, and we really need some great songs to be written in that genre. [/quote] I totally agree with this post, apart from the insults aimed at someone who happens to rate JG.

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1334308477' post='1614078'] That's frankly, absolute bollocks, Pete. Your guitarist doesn't know what he's doing. [/quote] Whether he knows what he is doing is one thing (please bear in mind that he has 25 years gigging experience under his belt) but undoubtedly the valve amp sounds [b]much [/b]better! FWIW - I hate the pod and most modeling amps live, I think that they are really unconvincing. However, life is about compromises and I accept that in certain situations they have their uses. However, please don't kid yourself that they are as good as a decent amp in a big room - they're not..........

[quote name='stonecoldbass' timestamp='1334259666' post='1613492'] Yeah, I feel this thread spiraled slightly off topic but that's ok, all in the name of open discussion etc. I respect that Janek never shies away from encounters like this, in fact he seems like to make a big deal of them (if you have read any of his blogs you may have come across various 'fan mail' pieces...) and his plan to make that thread into a blog post is no different. The only thing however, is that he didn't address one single point I made in my (albeit lengthy) reply to him about his album and listening to music. He decided to use it as a jumping off point to talk about 'trimming off dead weight' and the state of the 'four walled bedroom youtube commenter'. I know what he is getting at, you see it all the time on both of these forums, but that has nothing to do with my OP. [b]I kinda feel like he 'changed the subject' away from discussion of his album and subsequently how we perceive and admire musical worth to a bit of a rant at the 'online bass micro community'[/b]. I was not comparing him to Matt or Hadrien, I don't hide behind screen names (you can visit my homepage and see what I do from my sig) and I 'get' subtlety in music. But I suppose he must get soooo much of the comparison thing happening that he felt he had to address it. I'm still trying to get into the album btw.... There are good moments for sure, but that's it. An album of frameworks that have some good bits in them. And some not so good bits. Which is TOTALLY COOL! It's exactly the music he wanted to make and he stands behind it, but he almost said it himself that his live shows are way better than his studio albums, maybe that is what separates the good from the great: being able to convey equally powerful and honest music both live and in the studio.... [/quote] I think that you have a point here - he does tend to change the subject when it suits him and steer the conversation to what suits his agenda........

[quote name='blackmn90' timestamp='1334169986' post='1612042'] what makes it better though? I prefer bob reynolds music to Janek Gwizdala's, and i've found its because the melodies follow simple harmonies, something my ears are more accustomed to. [/quote] Is that another way of saying that Bob Reynolds has better tunes??

[b]True story[/b] - a good friend of mine is a very useful guitar player who plays in a band that gigs a lot (and I do mean a lot). However, he is a touch on the lazy side and he used to use a digital combo because he couldn’t be bothered lugging a 4x12 and heavy valve amp around. He used to swear that his set-up was as good if not better as those with boogie half stack or whatever other guitar players playing in similar bands were using despite this obviously not being the case and several people informing of this fact! So what does our hero do? He gets a more expensive modelling amp, which admittedly does sound pretty good in his front room but still pretty weak in a live situation. Eventually he bites the bullet and buys a boutique valve amp (only a 1x12 combo thru) and lo and behold he has a great sound that everyone complements him on and he could not be happier…. And the moral of this story….. a modelling type amp may sound fine in a small room on its own but in a live scenario at least, it will never come close to a decent ‘proper’ amp, even if it weighs an awful lot less!

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1334221839' post='1612617'] He also posted this, which I like [i]'If I lose a few "bass fans" along the way, I couldn't be happier. It's like people who are on your mailing list that are dead weight. They hang out and open one out of 50 emails you send out, and probably only arrived on the list to get something free in the first place. The more people like that I can trim away the better. People who call themselves "fans" just so they can hang out and make derogatory comments about what you do aren't really fans at the end of the day are they? People who focus too much on the instrument and not on the music generally come to shows and stand there motionless all night with their coat still on, and perhaps even a backpack with the latest copy of whatever industry magazine they just picked up, a set of strings or a pair of drumsticks. They don't buy drinks which pisses of the club or venue owner, [b]and they certainly don't bring girls to the show which gets old after a while... [/b]and the worst part of all, they don't position themselves in a place of openness to enjoy the music because they're so wrapped up in how impossible it is to play as fast as Matt, Me, Hadrien or whoever. What they haven't realized is that if they really wanted to, they could play like that in 3 years. But there you come across yet another major issue with most people who are on this thought path or trajectory, they don't ever want to do the work. I really feel blessed to have such incredible fans that come out to shows and buy or download my music. They are loving, kind, and respectful, and I can do nothing but the same thing back to them. Long may this trend continue for my music. I will die a very happy person if this is the shape of things to come.'[/i] [/quote] Sorry, I'm just laughing here that Janek is blaming other people for there not being any girls at his shows...........

[quote name='blackmn90' timestamp='1334169826' post='1612031'] This is a difficult thing to explain. Because first you've got to find out what it was that they enjoyed. Was it the level of energy created by the performance? The feeling of release after tension? Or in the case of snarky puppy, their use of uncommon harmonies and subdivisions that make all us musicians poo our pants. Another thing. Pop music, rock music, and simple blues' use simple harmonic content. I can only imagine this is because the mass public prefer music where it is simple and easy to listen to, whereas a lot of jazz, especially fusion, has a niche market, most of which are musicians anyway. [/quote] In the real world punters tend not to over analyse why they like something, nor should they! Obviously simpler and more accessable music is more accessable to the general public. However, if a group like Weather Report can put out tunes like Birdland or Teen Town, then they will be able to reach a wider audience.....

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1334168849' post='1612007'] I did get what you were getting at, I just used your post as a bit of a jumping off point, sorry I didn't make it a bit clearer. But there is a lot of music out there that isn't 'accessible' and I don't buy that you necessarily need a good understanding of any type of music to make a judgement on it necessarily. I dragged along a few people to a gig I went to on Sunday night that had absolutely no listening background in jazz but very much enjoyed a very leftfield jazz ('fusion') style band. Likewise my girlfriend's mum got taken along to a Shostakovich concerto recently having never been to (or listened to) anything much orchestral in her life and yet now she can't stop talking about him, talk about getting thrown in at the deep end. I think ultimately what is boils down to is just how open-minded you are, not how much you've listened to one particular type of music. Let people decide for themselves. [/quote] I agree to a large extent, but the less accessable the music is the more it helps to have an understanding of where that music comes from to appreciate it. I may not be a big fan of jazz fusion or whatever you might call it but I still have a couple of Weather Report albums, which I think bears out your point i.e. the better the music the more likely it is to appeal to those who you wouldn't normally expect to listen to it.....