peteb

[quote name='Pete Academy' timestamp='1331762078' post='1578630'] Try locking with the hi-hat. It's more fun. [/quote] That almost sounds like you're playing jazz! Beware, it's a slippery slope.......

I would be very loathe to leave the pub in the lurch if its a good regular gig and you have a good relationship with the landlord, but 3 months is plenty of notice for the pub to rearrange the gig and get another band for the night

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1331674253' post='1577108'] Hopefully we agree there are no rules about bass and kick drum [/quote] Oh, go on then..... Well, not really, to be honest (at least not for what I play) - but the important thing is whatever works.....

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1331672582' post='1577070'] Point one for me is that it tells us that both approaches can work or not work and that you do whatever is suitable. Point two is that you are right, you have to do what suits the music. I can sit on three notes on the kick when it's necessary and it often is with one of the bands I play in. [/quote] I knew that we could agree on something.....

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1331669207' post='1576995'] I just knocked these two up to demonstrate the effect of bass strictly covering the kick, and playing around the kick. [url="http://soundcloud.com/silddx/sets/on-kick-off-kick/"]http://soundcloud.co...-kick-off-kick/[/url] [/quote] [color=#222222]Not quite sure what this tells us: after a quick listen I would say that the first example is simple but very tight and is probably what you would record under a vocal; the second track has a more developed bassline with some nice ideas but isn’t as tight (probably as you are trying not to follow the kick too closely)[/color] [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1331641679' post='1576310'] I have to say, the way you explain the set-up...it sounds a shambles and a guessimate. I am talking about the pattern going awol and you think that is ok....??? You can all go and get lost in the music..and then pull it all together when you want to get back in to the main pattern. Reading your posts, I think this would be a recipe for a disaster. but then I also get the impression that happy free-for-all train wreck suits the concept. If it happens, then ok...to be expected, if it doesn't, we have a chance of pulling of something really interesting...for the band..!! Why would I get lost in a track..? I am counting to a set pattern..I am not making things up as we go...and hoping it will be alright if we all wave and look out for each other. The way you seem to work...not sure you have a clue, tbh. which is ok if it works..upto a point. But when you have to put yourself into a mainstream situation, I doubt you'll have the tools and will be out of your depth pretty quickly....if you ignore or can't follow simple basics...or rules, if you prefer. Sorry if this offends...but jeeeeeeeeeezus..!! [/quote] I can see what JTUK is getting at here, thru I suspect that you are playing with some pretty skilled players in a genre that perhaps does not depend on a the same type of groove that you might find in funk or rock and who can make it work Having said that, [b]if[/b] you take the approach that you have been talking about playing in a decent rock band then, brother, you ain’t gonna get the gig! I did quite a lot of gigs last year in a few different bands last year, playing everywhere from Bedford to the Orkneys. Some of the guys I was playing with have a track record and are pretty decent players. I like to think that I am in demand because of my immense charm, good looks and outstanding chops! However, I am told that it is mainly because I can ‘lock in’ with a drummer and make the band sound good……

[quote name='Mog' timestamp='1331651869' post='1576580'] Happens a lot personally speaking. It can be viewed as a bad trait but I prefer to look at as a willingness to constantly improve. The thing about practice is that it will pay off in the long run. Try not to focus so much on what you can't do and practice what you feel you are best at, this can be a means to developing your own style. (Obviously you should still practice what you find difficult, otherwise practicing would be a waste of time) If I were you I'd try and find a guitarist and drummer who just want to expand their abilities a little by practicing as a group. Its amazing what you can learn from playing with others. Things like versatillity etc will come eventually as you expose yourself (giggidy) to other genres and play with other musicians. Dont get too hung up on it. [/quote] @ Townes This is good advice....

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1331588402' post='1575547'] Ah, I thought you wanted bass not on the kick creating a groove. I'll sort summat out. [/quote] Reminds me of a few jam sessions where we used to try to drop into reggae bits in the middle of a song - trying to get guys who were used to playing rock or blues to not play on the '1' was almost impossible....!

[quote name='Linus27' timestamp='1331580626' post='1575316'] OK, a very very crude recording here but it gives you the impression. I could not program EZdrummer to play exactly the drum beat so here it is playing a standard 4/4 bass/snare/bass/snare with the hi-hat playing 4's over it. In reality it would be bass/hi-hat/bass/snare with the bass guitar playing the root on the hi-hit and snare part. I so with I could think of the songs that use this beat. If I do I will link it up. [url="http://soundcloud.com/michael-boylan/offbeat"]http://soundcloud.co...-boylan/offbeat[/url] [/quote] Thanks for making the effort to put that up, nicely played if I may say so! I do kinda see what you’re getting at but it’s not how I would normally approach playing a groove (maybe a middle 8) I do think that we all may be getting a bit carried away with ourselves here. I waded into this thread because Doddy said that Billy Sheehan was wrong to say that a bass player should lock in with the bass drum – basically I thought that Doddy was wrong! I am then backed into a corner and end up saying that the bass should always cover every bass drum beat, which of course is the general rule but as we all know musical rules are there to be broken whenever the fancy takes us! I’ve just been listening to a Steve Lukather CD in the car and as a result of this thread found myself listening to the rhythm section rather than just the songs / vocals / guitar playing. As you might expect, exemplary playing and a variety of different grooves – but every bass drum hit is covered by a bass guitar note……….!

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1331554761' post='1574563'] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpSMaY2XAbM[/media] [/quote] Brilliant piece of music but hardly a backbeat (which is what we were talking about).....

[quote name='Linus27' timestamp='1331553223' post='1574527'] Sorry but this is not true. You can play an offbeat note, playing a single bass note on the snare leaving the bass drum beat free of any bass guitar note in the same way a reggae rhythm guitar part is played. This creates a driving offbeat feel especially if the drummer plays 4s on the hi-hat. [/quote] OK...... I am happy to stand corrected on this point but would like to hear some recorded examples of how this works first! Certainly an unusual way of way of doing things and dunno if it would work but I would certainly like to hear what it sounds like!

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1331512240' post='1574110'] It might be worth noting that there will be little to none actual benefit of fitting a BA bridge ... unless of course you are addressing a known issue of spacing or alignment for example. Therefore a basic no-name alternative (equally high mass bridges are available for £10-15) will afford you a better budget for the more essential items - neck, pups, strings etc. [/quote] Won't cost me a penny - I have an old Badass bridge in my spares box!!

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1331506955' post='1574054'] It's entirely possible to put together a playable bitsa for well under a hundred quid. The components will be a bit iffy but it can be done. Thereafter, you can progress up the scale until you realise you've become your own 'custom shop'. If you don't want to get into refinishing, you need no more than a soldering iron, a couple of screwdrivers, a drill and a suitable allen key. You won't make your money back compared to buying the CIJ, but it's more fun. [/quote] I have put a low offer in for the CIJ - if I get it (a bit unlikely but you never know) I will upgrade it with a Badass bridge and some black schaller hardware I have hanging around and buy an EMG & a tort scratchplate, which should leave me with change from £350 for a giggable bass! Assuming I don't get it then I'll start searching thru ebay for a decent body and maybe a Warmouth neck (no rush) - it's got to be giggable, so I'm afraid £100 ain't really gonna cut it but I'm certainly not going to put a fortune into it Of course, there is always the problem that I might be creating a rod for my own back - turn up for a gig with a Fender P and certain band leaders are then not going to want to hear anything else, no matter how good my other basses are, such is the power and appeal of the image of the P bass ...!!

Dunno if it’s nostalgia or just getting old but I find myself thinking about getting a Fender ‘P’ bass again, years after selling the last of the ones that I used to own and swearing blind that I would never buy another one! This could partly be because the leader of the last band I was in seemed to continually want me to get my really nice ‘super jazz’ bass to sound like a precision or because they just look so cool but I have been thinking about putting a lowball offer on a CIJ precision on eBay or putting together a bitsa ‘P’ bass To my way if thinking, it has to look like an old Fender; i.e. sunburst or natural wood, with a tort scratchplate and preferably looking a bit knocked about ! Of course, I would put a badass bridge (or similar) and an EMG on it, just like I always used to do whenever I’ve had a Fender P bass in the past….. Has anyone got any ideas about how to put together a ‘bitsa’ P bass and how much it would cost? Unfortunately I’ve spent a small fortune on gear in the last couple of years, so I would want to put together a bass that looks, plays and sounds like Fender (preferably better), but not cost a fortune Any advice / ideas??

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1331495766' post='1573810'] I have had one bass lesson in my life, it was with Jake Newman. I only needed that single lesson. Jake made one remark that stunned me, completely floored me, and that one remark was the essence of what it meant for me to realise my musicianship. And that the most important thing you can do, before all else, is to open your ears, absorb EVERYTHING you can, and turn it into music that reflects YOU. Develop your aesthetic in other words, develop your inner VOICE, then learn how to externalise your voice in such a way that they become one and the same. The object lesson of this is to then develop the musical and technical skills you need to reflect your inner voice with as much accuracy as possible. This is what I wrote on Jake's Bass Tutors thread later .. [i]"Never having had a bass lesson ever, I had my first lesson with Jake Newman (Jakesbass on 'ere) a few hours ago. All I can say is my mind has been opened like a bloody flower! I'm no newbie to this bass biznis but blimey, has Jake taken me apart. I feel like a musician all of a sudden but with so much personal expression to learn. We talked a lot of the time and this was a massively important part of the session.[/i] [i]My most enormous f***ing lesson for tonight was: [b]Sing what you hear in your head, then play it on the bass. Jake was singing me what he heard in his head, then playing it on the bass milliseconds later. I, being the competitive sort, had a bash at the same thing, Jake told me I was singing what I was playing, not playing what I was singing. He was absolutely right. I really thought I was playing what I was singing, but I truly wasn't and I instinctively knew that. A very humbling and exciting experience.[/b] It taught me a lot about myself and a helluva lot about why I didn't feel I was expressing myself musically. I am restricted by my technique, my repetitive patterns and my lack of/mis understanding of basic theory. I have some homework and I am raring to go! I can't believe how beneficial one lesson from a real musician (one making a living at it, one who has played with such notable musicians, and who is so accomplished at personal expression through a piece of wood with strings on it.) could be."[/i] I never followed the exercises Jake gave me other than a few cursory attempts. The lesson made me realise that I have a quite well developed musical aesthetic and that what I need to do is learn how to play the music in my head. It feeds off itself and I really do feel I am developing a style and approach unique to me. If I can't play what I hear in my head, then I damn well learn how to very quickly, because then I can express myself. I can't play Jazz, or Country, or Rock n Roll, or Funk, or Afrobeat, or Reggae, or ... What I can do, most of the time, is play ME. And thankfully, the bands I'm in appreciate and like what I do because, I believe, I have an aesthetic that includes the practical and emotional needs of myself, the other musicians, and the SONG. Sorry for the self-aggrandizing rambling post. [/quote] With respect, a lot of what you are saying is a bit 'Zen and the Art of Bass Playing' - what Jake said to you is great advice to someone who has been playing for years and with hundreds of gigs under their belt! The OP, who I assume is more of a novice, really needs to learn the bassics of how to play with a drummer to get some confidence knowing that they can really cut it in a band! I can't possibly disagree with "[i]Sing what you hear in your head, then play it on the bass",[/i] but first of all you need to know how to play a groove!

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1331490364' post='1573674'] If a drummer can't drive the band..and I am not talking about ethereal pieces, then you'll have your train wreck again. Of course, everyone else can have a piece of that action, but the drummer cannot opt out if that is what the songs needs. [/quote] this

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1331489853' post='1573661'] Why? What are you trying to convince us of? In one post you say the bass should cover every kick beat, then you say there are no hard rules and that that is only the basics? I'm confused as to your message. [/quote] [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1331489999' post='1573665'] If they can't hold time, then you have a train wreck. There just is no excuse for it. and you can't have a groove with time all over the place. [/quote] There are no hard and fast rules but the basics are that you play to the drummer I've played with a fair few different drummers in pick up house bands at jam sessions at blues festivals, etc in the past couple of years - the ones with good time and a solid backbeat are easy to play with, the ones with good chops but all over the place are a bleedin' nightmare!

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1331489566' post='1573651'] Again, this is nonsense. Drums can be a fluidly played set of instruments used for a variety of musical purposes beyond keeping rhythm and tempo. [/quote] I give up....!!

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1331488195' post='1573600'] I agree with Nige....I completely disagree with this. The bass does not have to cover evey bass drum beat,although it has it's place ...it can just as easily play off the hi hat or any other part of the kit-in fact it can comfortably play off any instrument in the band. Likewise,it isn't just the drummer who is responsible for dictating the pace.....it is everyone's responsibility. Sometimes it's certain members more than others,but the drums should be able to drop out and things should still be grooving. [/quote] There are no hard and fast rules but the basics are to lock onto the bass drum when the drummer is playing a backbeat - the bass player may well play to the hi hat playing jazz, etc However, every good band that I can think of tends to be driven by the drummer [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1331488705' post='1573622'] If the drummer can't set the pulse or tempo then he has no use whatsover. [/quote] Exactly!

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1331487506' post='1573587'] I absolutely and fundamentally DISAGREE with what you said. That is such an unmusical attitude that I can barely bring myself to want to attempt to understand why you would adopt such an approach. :S [/quote] [color=#222222]Because that is what works! Just listen to Led Zep, Rush, RHCP or any decent funk band - all different music but they all follow that basic principle[/color] [color=#222222][/color] [color=#222222]I am not disagreeing that the rhythm section should leave space to allow the music to breathe, but the basics are that the drummer drives the band and the bass player locks in with the drummer to create the groove…..[/color]