peteb

The audience are coming to see Derek Trucks, not the sound guy...

I recently went for an audition / socially distanced playthrough / chat (just the two of us) with a guy who is a sideman in a well-known pop band who is putting together a band for his side project who would be playing decent club gigs and the odd festival across Europe. He was asking about the amp I brought along and what amp / cab I would be using live when playing clubs, as well talking about the backline he used live – no mention of in-ears or helix setups or anything of that nature. There is a place for all different types of rigs depending on what the gig requires. If you are playing a tour of club gigs with a need to fly or to travel light, then a helix rig may be the only way to realistically go. You may prefer that, or see it as a compromise that you are forced to make – but it may be the best, or even only, way to do the gig. Obviously, some big productions pretty much require everyone to use in-ears. Personally, I hate seeing gigs without amps in small venues or places without a proper stage. To me it sounds cr*p, like a karaoke set-up. But I am aware that other people here think differently. My main gig at the moment is a tribute band, generally playing decent size clubs. The band leader has used all in-ear systems before and I thought I might have to bite the bullet and get some in-ears for myself. However, after the first rehearsal it became apparent that everybody else preferred to use amps on stage and the BL was happy to go along with that (although he uses his in-ears for his own personal monitoring). Sounds great…

Indeed. If only it contained some incredibly bad advice to a novice bass player that would put his / her development back several years, it would be the perfect Basschat thread.

Can I ask why exactly are you looking for a new cab?? You already have an Ampeg 410, which is a more than decent old school cab that would work fine for most gigs. Personally, I would be looking at getting a better s/h amp first, unless there is some reason that you need to get rid of the Ampeg cab?

Good point well made, similar to one I was attempting to compose when you hit the send button. The only thing that I would add is that every time you listen to a new guitar player (who may never have even heard of EC), he’s copped his licks off a guy who copied them off a guy who got them off Clapton. Let us be clear, this is largely down to the time that young Eric originally came to prominence, in much the same as a certain rather influential beat combo of that period from Liverpool! None of this is to denigrate Mr Mould (who I was vaguely aware of but had never listened to before this thread), who has obviously influenced several bands that I have listened to.

I enjoyed that more than I thought I would...! Which Green Day album was the original version on?

I think that you can make a case that Clapton is the most influential electric guitarist ever, even more so than Hendrix, Van Halen, Les Paul, Chuck Berry, the 3 Kings et al. He was never such a big thing for me, but I was surprised to find out that a couple of the best guitar players I have known were massive fans. He may not necessarily be the most original, but he was the guy who put it all together and got in front of a mass audience. His influence is such that virtually every guitar player is walking in his footsteps, if they know it or not. Most of his best material comes from the 60s or 70s. Some of this later stuff was pretty good, some of it very classy, but much of it has been very dull, mediocre in fact. So, the girl I’ve never heard of and no one will remember in five years probably has a point. As far as the racism thing goes – that was pretty f***ed up, but there is more joy in heaven for one sinner who repents, etc…

(a racist) I'll just leave this here https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/mar/18/daryl-davis-black-musician-who-converts-ku-klux-klan-members

Bloody drummers, what do they know...! Just seen this, thought it amusing...

Outstanding work! I wonder if you wouldn't mind pointing out which bars contain the the fluffs (or 'clinkers' as you call them)? I know the part reasonably well, but there were always a couple of bits where I couldn't quite make out what NM was playing so I just put in my own run. I wonder if these were the fluffs? With my meagre reading skills, I'll probably never find the right bits, whereas I might manage reading a bar or two if pointed in the right direction! I like your note about how accurate David Coverdale’s vocals were. I think that many people seriously underrate just how good Coverdale was in those days, up there with Rodgers and the very best for me. At least he was until he started mucking about with his voice and tried to sound like an American AOR screamer...!

Or to quote Steve Lukather, "there are fetuses that can play Eruption these days"

I think that the first step is definitely to give them both a second audition.

That's what Lemmy did when he auditioned Wurzel & Phil Campbell...! It is difficult for anyone to say if they weren't in the room. Assuming that they are equally matched as guitar players and both seem fine on a personal level then Candidate 1 might have the edge if he is more confident (not a bad thing for a lead guitarist). However, Candidate 2 might have a significant advantage on the visual front, which can be a big thing depending on what type of band you are. You just have to balance their respective qualities and then try not to pi*s off the guy you don't give the gig, just in case you need to give him a ring in a few months time...!

You do need a half decent singer to even attempt quite a few Whitesnake songs. Something that old Coverversion is finding out as he gets older and his voice is starting to go...

There’s a reason why later versions of Whitesnake, the various WS tribute bands and most cover bands generally play a version in between the two recorded versions but without the original bassline. Whilst we are all in awe of Neil’s original part, it does mean that you can’t go for a bigger sounding arrangement and you have to play the song a notch slower than perhaps feels comfortable for many bands. The cover band that I’m in play a few classic WS songs, but we tend to go for the later period live arrangements. This because that is closer to what we naturally sound like, having all been a product of the 80s hard rock scene (perhaps not quite so much with me, but then I have played in more bluesier bands as well). Both versions of Whitesnake have their strengths (especially live), although after 1987 the songwriting suffered and the albums tended to be pretty poor. Also, Coverdale’s voice suffered, losing a lot of the richness he had in the earlier days as he tried to sing right at the top of his range.

Perhaps the more relevant question is might they want to reduce the fee, due to business pressures arising from the COVID environment?

The version in A isn't the Neil Murray version - it's the Rudy Sarzo line, which although a perfectly good bassline suited to a bigger production, lacks the magic of the original Murray part. There is a pretty accurate tab of the Neil Murray part (in G) somewhere online, which I reckon is about 90% right (misses a few runs) but a good starter for ten.

Or me...! 🙂

Are you doing the original (Neil Murray) bassline? If you are going to attempt Murray's version, the secret (for me anyway) was to make sure that the drummer holds back a little. If he speeds up (as many semi-pro drummers have a habit of doing), then it gets very easy for you to struggle to get all the parts of the bassline in before you're onto the next section...!

Please don't think that you don't have my full support. I am lucky enough to be working from home on full salary, but if things had gone differently I could have taken a redundancy package before the pandemic and been working as a freelance and found myself in the same position as you. The issue is that things are likely to change and could get more difficult for guys like you. I have a lot of friends in a similar position to you and I am concerned for them.

It won't be the bands fault or anybody else's. But unless live music can be made financially viable then pubs and clubs will either close or stop putting on bands. Everybody (musicians, pubs & punters) will lose out. The problem is that in a recession, punters will struggle to be able afford to go out to pubs or clubs - let alone spend more on a rare night out to support the venues & bands.

But what if venues start offering lower fees and corporate gigs have their budgets cut? Will your brother be prepared to accept less money or risk losing work to those who will? I’m not really talking about playing for free. I might do that as a one-off gig while social distancing remains in force and then only for a venue that I already have a good relationship with. What I am trying to do is get my bandmates used to the idea that they may have to accept that they could be playing for less money next year.

Absolutely. Two things I would say: at some point in the not too distant future people will feel safe enough to go out and not avoid crowds and; it is not a case of being ‘principled’ to refuse to accept changes in market forces and go out of business. There is going to be a recession, not just because of COVID 19. This will lead to venues closing but still (nearly) the same number of bands who want to play in them. Therefore, there will be an over-supply of bands causing band fees to drop. Going hand-in-hand with this will be a drop in demand from punters, many of whom may lose their jobs or struggle to pay the mortgage and therefore can’t afford to go out to support live music events. This will mean a potential loss of income for pubs / venues, again forcing gig fees to drop. As you say, all this is going to push down band fees as a result of the change in the supply / demand curve. All of this is going to have an effect on the live music scene, both at the professional and semi-pro levels. At pub band level, the better bands with established followings may find themselves having to reduce their fees and start competing with bands who are perhaps not so good. These bands will struggle even more for gigs and may be forced to play less often for free. On one hand, this might mean that it is likely that there is an awful band on when you turn up at a typical pub venue, on the other hand how are these bands supposed to get better it they’re starved of gigs?? At the pro level, it’s difficult enough these days trying to make a living with music as your main source of income and it’s not going to get any easier! Interesting times…

You're certainly not being dim mate, the rules are incredibly vague and will be ignored apart from the main points i.e. social distancing. This allows the government to demonstrate that it is showing support for the sector, whilst putting all the blame on the venue if anything goes wrong.

I don't think so, especially not covers bands that generate additional revenue for pubs / other venues and get paid for providing that service. However, I think that going forward, musicians who expect to get paid for gigging (be it their main form of income or just additional earnings) are going to find that the current market for their services MAY well change. There is very likely going to be a recession that could last for a while, which will affect the number of punters who can afford a night out watching live music (or at least mean that they do so less regularly). This will affect the amount that venue will be able to pay. It is no good simply insisting on your current fees, or thinking that you are too good to play for less money because there is a real danger that you just won't work - venues will not be able pay bands more money than they generate in bar sales! I know that this is crystal ball stuff, but you do have to at least be prepared for the possibility. The real danger for most gigging musos in the long term is that punters start to get out of the habit of going out to watch live music.