peteb

I should act that most audiences know enough to work out if a band is any good or not, so it does help to get the music right as well as making sure that you are being 'entertaining'...

I think that some people may actually be underestimating their audience here (hard as that is to believe). I would say that the vast majority of the members of the audience that I play to are quite aware of what a bass guitar is and also have a fair idea of its role in the band. They might not know much beyond that, but then again, why should they? I have always got a fair amount of attention , but that is more down to a little bit of stagecraft than anything else! Punters want to be entertained, so entertain them...

So can bass players

But is that because it is easy for the bass player, not generally being a soloist (unless you are Billy Sheehan), to be relegated to the shadows at the back of the stage? It is more difficult for a lead guitarist to hide at the back, even in the unlikely event that they wanted to. But it doesn’t necessarily have to be this way – compare John McVie and (to take an extreme example) Nikki Sixx?? I have always got recognition from the audience. At your school event, kids would have been coming to me – not because I’m a superior player by any means, but because I am more of a performer. A few of us went to see the Devil’s Slingshot a few years ago (rock fusion trio featuring Tony Macalpine, Virgil Donati and the aforementioned Billy Sheehan). This was the first time that my wife had seen Sheehan live and she was laughing as she said she could see where I had stolen my act from – not the bass playing (unfortunately) but the stage moves…!

I'm based in West Yorkshire (used to live in London more than half a lifetime ago)! Just got back from my pub gig, one that would confirm the worst fears of all the doomsayers on here i.e.only about 15 people there! Next gig is at a venue that always gets packed, so swings and roundabouts The thing is that I know plenty of decent drummers and several great guitar players, but it is very difficult to find a lead vocalist who has the pipes, can front a band and isn't completely mad. As you say, the singer is the focal point - it doesn't matter how good a band is, if the singer isn't up to scratch you are always going to struggle...!

What is all this talk about drummers as if they are semi-mythical creatures?? I have a phone full of drummers who are perfectly capable of playing in a decent pub level band (or better). The problem round here is finding credible singers...

It's just that none of the established music pubs around here would consider putting on an originals band unless they had, say, a member who was a bit of a local star and could guarantee bringing a following.

Maybe another example of the North / South (West) divide...!

Out of interest, how many non cover bands regularly play pubs?? Not many around here...

I'm not sure where the really good 'top-rated' cover bands do play then if they are not playing in pubs, especially as the club scene is not what it was. A heavy rock covers band are not going to get much work on the function circuit or playing weddings, yet they can still pull decent audiences in the better pub venues. There are plenty of people out there working a day job who are still capable players / singers (not sure about Sid from Accounts). Some of them have built up a fair bit of experience / stagecraft and actually know what they are doing...

Punters go to see bands (or at a push singers or occasionally guitarists). The important thing is that they like the band rather than the bass player or any other individual musician (see above proviso about singers and guitar players). If you stand at the back and play perfect, consise basslines without an unnecessary note then the average punter will probably not notice you. But if that works for the band then it doesn't matter. If you want to get more attention from the audience then make sure that you look the part, move about a bit, interact with the crowd and the rest of the band, maybe even throw in the odd lick where you can get away with it. You will find that a lot more punters will notice you (hopefully in a good way)!

Guitar player / singer / band leader has a band (named after him – he seems to go by the name of Swampy). This band plays plenty of pub gigs and the odd bike rally, has a Facebook page and YouTube clips of them playing live (mostly ZZ Top covers it seems). The drummer then says he’s leaving and the bass player decides to follow. There are still plenty of gigs booked and the band leader wants to carry on with a new rhythm section. Therefore, our hero advertises for a bass player and drummer to play the same material that his band have played live many times to do gigs that have been booked on the strength of his previous live performances. The band will have the same name as that he used to play all these gigs in the past. He is saying that he is asking people to audition for an established band. I wouldn’t disagree…

I was always under the impression that live music (or at least guitar based rock) was more of a thing in Europe than here these days. At least, the pro bands that I know generate most of their income touring on the mainland. There appears to be a better club scene over there than in the UK. Certainly there seems to be a pretty good blues scene in Northern Europe and in Spain from my experience.

Hard to disagree with what Skank says above. FWIW, I don't think that rock will actually die out, nor will it turn into such a minority interest like jazz. There still plenty of youngsters who love rock (not the case with jazz), but not anywhere enough of them to make it the force it once was. And they are wearing G'n'R tee-shirts rather than Rival Sons! I also agree with Beato that kids will still enjoy live rock music when they experience it, but the difficulty is to get them to come in the first place when they have so many choices of what to spend their leisure dollars / time on.

But the thing is that in most towns / markets (or whatever) you are going to struggle to get three paying gigs every weekend. If you are in three different bands then you have a chance! Even if if both of these bands come off, I am still going to look to join / put together another band that plays an extra two or three gigs a month.

I'm currently involved in two start-up projects that specifically looking to gig no more than once a month. This is not because the members don't want to play live, just that they want to do something different but are also in other bands that gig a lot and that is all they can realistically commit to.

First of all, I would say that the Darkness do have a blues influence. What he is saying is that rock music has lost the mainstream because generally it has lost it the blues influence. A great band like Muse, who have hit the mainstream, are an exception but there are not too many around like them. There have always been hit producers and songwriting teams writing to a formula, but they have not had the stranglehold that they seem to have now. Notice how everything on the radio now hits the chorus before the 45 second mark? That was always a thing but no where near as much as now days. Repetition is key rather than creativity! Even the nu-metal stuff that gets out there tends to very much follows the same formulas. As far as your last point goes, if you remember the old greatest hits albums aimed at teenagers that you used to get in supermarkets in the 70s - Strange Kinda Woman and Purple Haze would be on the same compilation album as Wig Wam Bam and Tie A Yellow Ribbon...!

But they are trying to explain why

I think that one of the main points of the video is not that there isn't a vibrant metal scene (and other sub-genres) because there obviously is, but that this has lost the thread (i.e. some sort of blues influence) that linked it to the music that proceeded it and with that, no longer has any relevance to the mainstream. Modern metal has a strong underground following, but does not have crossover appeal to non metalheads in the way that, say AC/DC did with Back In Black nearly 40 years ago. Also, even music that on the face of it seems very radical, is actually rather conservative - using a limited number of the same producers, recording techniques, sounds, etc...

I know that it seems like everyone thinks that music was better when they were young, but do they have a point? Rick Beato is a music producer who has had a few hit records and now has a very interesting YouTube channel, where he explains various aspects of how music works as well as how the industry operates as well as series where he forensically examines how a number of great songs were recorded / written (from Steely Dan to Adele to Nine Inch Nails). Here he has a clip on why he thinks rock music what led to the decline of rock music and why much of today’s popular music (i.e. all Max Martin / Dr Luke and melodic math songwriting that dominates the airways) lacks the depth of that of twenty years or so ago, not to mention the stuff going back to the fifties (and long before). FWIW, I happen to pretty much agree with everything he says but wonder what anybody else who can take the time to watch the video thinks…

I imagine for the same reasons of everyone else who doesn't read - he didn't need to...

This was in a place where we usually get a decent crowd. We played there not so long ago, which may explain why we didn't get so many. Last week we played to a reasonable audience in a town an hours drive away where we have never played before, but the week before that only 15 people turned up...

If you can communicate that feeling to an audience (and I'm sure that you can), then you have one of the reasons why there will always be a demand for live music

You have to remember that you have lived all through the golden age of rock music. Things change - there are other things for people to spend their leisure time / money on these days, whereas in your time (and mine) it was predominantly music and movies. I still think that there is a viable audience for live music, just it will never be the same as it was up to 15 years ago. I've just come back from a local pub gig where we were complaining that we didn't have as big a crowd as we normally get. However, it was still pretty busy - just that there were only 100 or so people there rather than closer to the 150 we would normally expect. It was still by far the busiest pub in that part of town...

Chas was the pianist in Chas & Dave, but before that he was better known as a bass player in Head Hands & Feet and other bands in the 60s and early 70s