peteb

Is that the black one that was on the various Facebook bass selling groups??

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1504555133' post='3365689'] That's sort of what I thought Dave. And outside of NYC, I'm thinking your public transport is better than what we have in most US cities. Blue [/quote] That's probably true, but generally our public transport is considered to not be as good as the other major European countries. And yes, most of us do want a car to have the freedom to go wherever we want. Having said that, I didn't own a car when I lived in London. As far as dating goes, I'm not sure that English women generally judge a man by his car (although there will be plenty who do) but it certainly makes things easier. When I was 30 years old I used to date a girl living in Leeds (the next city from where I live - a 20 minute drive away) when my car was stolen from outside her flat and burnt out. We used to joke that one of us had to get two busses and a train whenever they wanted to get laid! I think that it is fair to say that both of us were glad when the insurance was sorted out and I got another car...

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1504553672' post='3365672'] Good to know, so most of these "no car needed" posts are probably from young guys that live in the city. They're the 10%. Blue [/quote] Not necessarily young guys, but [b]mainly [/b]those who live in London

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1504552636' post='3365660'] I'm starting to think we have more of a car culture here in the States. The only people I know that don't own cars live in NYC. Without a car I wouldn't be able to buy groceries or even get to a doctor appointment. Blue [/quote] The certainly is more of a car culture in the US but don't be misled - for 90% of musos over here a car is pretty much a necessity...!

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1504123069' post='3362889'] Many newbies have no clue what it takes to play 3 four hour bar gigs Friday, Saturday & Sunday. [/quote] To be fair, neither do I

[quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1504013403' post='3362110'] Well, as the OP I quite enjoy lighting the blue touchpaper and lobbing the metaphorical firework into a forum. Don't stop on my account I definitely haven't said the questions been answered either. I think it has simply polarised opinion. [/quote] My answer to your original question is that Tab is a useful tool for learning songs you have heard before quickly but if you rely on it too much you may slow down your musical development and it is not used in any professional situation...

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1503752582' post='3360720'] Mostly always the case with this musical style of gig, along with non Big Band Jazz as well (although chord charts or fake books do appear at times). Professional shows/TV/film sessions/selective recording sessions/backing turns or acts. Depping in certain function bands and corporate event productions/cruises/classical concerts and broadcasts, amature drama orchestras and bands, marching bands, forces bands, arranging/orchestrating and engraving (the list goes on and on). Fluent, or good reasonable sight reading is still big business. TAB readers/musicians who want to make the step up to any of the work or opportunities mentioned above these days, would know deep down, that TAB knowledge only would not be enough to get you anywhere near the front door. They will have to raise their game. However, not all do and are perfectly happy doing what they do with TAB, which is mainly (I guess) for education and learning purpose. It is pointless ramming it down their throats. The OP question was about using TAB when learning songs versus ears. TAB is no more EVIL than Notation is '[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]incomprehensible gibberish'.[/font][/color] [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828]I became fluent in sight reading over a period of time, I didn't just wake up and it happened. Luckily enough, a lot of my reading experience was gained in the heat of battle when I was young [/color][/font][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828](winging it on gigs/cruises and shows using my ears, and accommodating MD's of course)[/color][/font] [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828] [/color][/font] [/quote] Surely it is undeniable that if you want the gigs that you mention then you must be a proficient reader. Equally there are many pro gigs where reading is a non issue. As far as tab goes, it is just a tool to show you how to play a certain piece that you have already heard. I would say that if a guitar player wants to learn to play Eruption, then an accurate tab will be of more use than notation! But obviously it has no professional applications and you will learn more developing your ear rather than using tab as a shortcut.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1503730982' post='3360539'] To quote Marcus Miller: 'why wouldn't you'? [/quote] Because of all the (blues and rock) gigs I've been offered, I have never once been asked if I can read or even seen anyone with a score. When I have been up for gigs that I would consider a step up from what I usually do, whether I could read or not has been a non issue, more can I commit to going away for a few weeks at a moments notice! I'm currently helping out with stage management with one of the biggest blues festivals in Europe. You see quite a lot of the same players turning up in 'name' artist's backing bands - all jobbing pros, many of whom I imagine can read. However, I very much doubt (to the point of absolute certainty) that when they were offered the gigs that they are getting paid for over the weekend that they were given any score to learn, or even asked if they could read. Certainly they there is no musical score backstage whatsoever...!

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1503525368' post='3358993'] It's not 'huffing and indignant puffing'. It's called having a professional attitude. The flavour of your post suggests you know more detail of this incident than the rest of us are privy to. Care to share it? [/quote] To be fair, most of the old time pros I've met would have an attitude closer to the drummer in question

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1503131129' post='3355874'] I have made several attempts over the last 40 something years to learn to sight read notation fluently. I suspect the lack of a requirement to do so virtually ever for my bass playing has contributed to the fact that I still can't - other reasons being laziness etc. The vast majority of my requirements have been fulfilled by learning material from recorded work. It's only in more recent years that notated (or tab) bass parts have become readily available - many years ago the closest you would get is a piano left hand part which often did not reflect the bass part - more it provided pianists with an ability to play the piece unaccompanied rather than reflecting any part of the artist's recording. I don't think tab is evil - it has helped me to learn quite complex things I could never have worked out by ear - and would probably have struggled with from the notation - but by using reference books or magazine transcriptions which show both notation and tab, it has given me a speedier reference to the notes and has also helped me to recognise notated rythmn and rest patterns thus helping my ability to sight read (I struggle less with the notes than with the rythmn when sight reading). I have learned (from notation) examples like the entire piano part and trumpet part for Cantaloupe Island - to both supplement my understanding of the piece and also allow me to concoct a solo bass piece. This is purely for personal interest and development - I've only ever played in one project where the song was played and I was required to play the bass part (and a short solo). If I'm depping I might download tabs as a quick reference to speed up the learning process - I'm far more likely to write my own chord charts for reference on the gig. I'm quite in awe of people who can read fluently - several brass players I know turn up for dep gigs with their own hand written notation and play standards (I'm talking things like Pick Up the Pieces, Watermelon Man, Autumn Leaves) accurately - I guess the brass parts do need to be spot on. So I think it has its place, and has its limitations, but can be a quick reference to play at least the notes accurately....... the question of incorrect transcription affects notation as well as tab - the fact there is (possibly) more tab available may result in more inaccuracy (certainly I've seen tab from web sites which is completely wrong - simply using your ear and playing along will clarify if something is wrong!!). This is probably anathema to purists but it works for me and I think has helped my reading of notation. I think a significant proportion of what I play is about feel and even notation is limited in its ability to convey that - I think that's something the player provides. [/quote] I completely agree with this. In 40 years gigging I have never once been asked if I can read. I have played with plenty of guys who I know can read, but it has been completely irrelevant on any gig I’ve done with them. Of course, reading is an essential skill if you want to play in a pit and if I had wanted to do that then I certainly would have learned to read a lot better than I can now. I can’t imagine that you will ever see tab on a gig but it has its uses. After years of trying to work out Portrait of Tracy by ear and coming up with various things that sounded a bit like it but obviously not correct, I found an accurate tab and now I can play it – OK, the Eb artificial harmonic can be a bit hit and miss but still… There is no way I could have learnt that from notation, even if my reading was a lot better than it is. Of course, you could say that I probably learnt a lot more trying to figure it out by ear, but the same applies there for both tab and notation.

Actually no...! All amps must be matched with [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]a cab (or cabs) with an impedance equal to or higher than the amps stated impedance. If you use two (or more) cabs [/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]the combined [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]impedance is lowered e.g. two 8 ohm cabs = 4 ohms [/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]A Class D amp will work the same as any other amp. [/font][/color]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1502975489' post='3354794'] I think it's an experience and comfort thing rather than strictly a personality thing. The more bands you play in, the more different musicians you play with, the more often you step out of your comfort zone and it just becomes easier to do. I played in a band where the drummer was adamant we'd never get deps in as it wouldn't work. When the Guitarist couldn't make a fairly big gig at short notice I said let's get a dep. The drummer threw a hissy fit and said it would be terrible, he won't play with a dep, pulled out and said to cancel the gig. So we bought in a dep drummer as well. The gig actually went better than usual. [/quote] I once did a dep gig where the only full time member was the singer (although though the dep drummer used to play nearly as many of their gigs as the official drummer). A couple of months later they did a gig where everybody on stage was a dep - even the singer / band leader couldn't make t...!

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1502605546' post='3352370'] What, no U2 stuff posted yet? Shame on you all! [/quote] Oh, go on then https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ye8GLPUVsM

Prefer the second one but I could see the point of playing the verse fingerstyle and slapping the chorus. PS. anyone getting upset about YouTube clips of people playing bass to cover tunes really needs to get out more...

[quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1501322673' post='3344002'] Aside from the 4 hour set I dont understand why he would insist on at least 2 lead vocals i a 3 piece. [/quote] Two lead vocals make a 4 gig feasible as a single singer is obviously going to struggle for such a long set. I'm guessing he is targeting three pieces for logistical reasons i.e. there is only a small stage / PA and ease of changeover between bands if necessary. Also £100 a man might tempt some people, whilst any less would appear too much work for the money!

[quote name='goingdownslow' timestamp='1501316475' post='3343945'] A drummer I know does it, he gets £100 a night. [/quote] I was guessing that he was looking to pay about £100 a musician a night, so it looks like a decent wage but he is desperate for three pieces to keep the price down. A lot of work for £100, but at least he is being upfront with what he wants...

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1501022201' post='3341932'] I still battle with the word pro. My story is actually very untraditional. Pro usually means your doing more than bar gigs. I had already worked for 35 years. My major bills suddenly disappeared. Both son's done with college out of the house and working. Home was paid for,I don't carry any loans. My expenses were so low I decided to primarily live off of gig money.And I have assets. So I'm not like a 20 something that managed to go pro. I would never define myself as a pro, others can if they like, I won't. Aren't there other seniors here that are in the same boat as me? Blue [/quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] Not quite a senior, but it is conceivable that I could be in a similar(ish) situation in a few years time...! [/font][/color]

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1501016755' post='3341880'] Who was the drummer in Brand X and Rainbow ? Dave [/quote] That would be Chuck Burgi (he also played on the original Bon Jovi sessions)

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1500926325' post='3341154'] Musically trained bassists play runs that in my opinion self taught bassists rarely do. [/quote] But you could argue that is another way of saying that a self taught player will player will play runs that a conventionally trained musician would rarely do. Or, to put it another way, which guitar player would you rather listen to: Mike Stern or Paul Kossoff??

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1500889551' post='3340788'] Yeah, OK . He says, laughing hysterically . [/quote] To clarify, I would expect anyone who has managed to get through music school to be able to play fluently. Equally, I would expect that someone who is entirely self-taught and has been playing seriously at any sort of level for the same period of time it takes to graduate from music school to be just as fluent. I am sure that a formal musical education gives a student many tools that it may be difficult for a self-taught player to obtain. However, I don’t think that playing fluently is one of them as I would expect any half decent player to be able to do that anyway.

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1500846857' post='3340632'] For every Pino and Billy there are thousands of others who never really achieve much. What Pino et al have is talent. Much like people who go to college and study music, the audition for some of these is a nightmare. [/quote] Of course, Pino, Billy are exceptional. However, there are many great musicians without a formal music education who have the talent to cut it in the real world just as there are many who manage to get into music college who struggle.

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1500830187' post='3340452'] Definitely agree that when you hear a properly trained bassist he normally sounds more fluent and effortless. His technique and the various runs he uses are far more interesting than the average non trained bassist and i personally find it more entertaining. I would have to say that usually they are bassists at the top of their game. Not sure what the average properly trained bassist sounds like It is interesting the different take on properly trained V non-trained on playing styles and ability. Dave [/quote] I'm afraid that I don't agree with that at all. You won't hear anyone more fluent and and who makes playing look effortless than Pino Palladino and he had no 'conventional' training. Same with Billy Sheehan, Jeff Beck and countless others. There are many benefits to musical training, but I would say that the one thing that it doesn't provide is fluency!

[quote name='Bobthedog' timestamp='1500740677' post='3339915'] How do you define musicality? Tone, note length, timing, attack / decay? A blend of all these things? Emotion / feel are they such a thing in shaping what come out to the listeners' ears? Are amps and cabs part of this (I switch between the Glock / BF BT II and my Markbass combo). I do know I play with a very light touch and need to butch up a bit on that, but what else can make a difference? [/quote] [font=Arial, sans-serif][size=2]Everything you are talking about there you mainly develop through experience, mainly that of playing with other musicians. You have decent gear, which should help to make you sound better but the musicality and feel are developed over time playing in the 'real world'.[/size][/font] [quote name='Cato' timestamp='1500743299' post='3339935'] Can I be the first to say 'It's all in the fingers'? [/quote] You can but you would be wrong - it's mainly in the mind

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1500725651' post='3339813'] On the other hand, fun is what we all definitely had after the gig. Party time? Oh yessss! [/quote] Not sure what gigs you're doing these days Chris?? Last night after a (moderately successful) gig I exchanged pleasantries with a few punters, got paid, loaded up the car and then had a 45 minute drive home. Not at all unpleasant, but hardly party central...!

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1500502798' post='3338370'] Yep. You're working not socialising. [/quote] Yea, but you're not going to the office or clocking on at a factory! My general rule is if there is a public bar or a backstage area / guest list then it's fine to bring a partner, but not if it is a corporate, function or wedding gig, etc. [quote name='blue' timestamp='1500503463' post='3338376'] I could see taking a girlfriend to a high end big stage, big lights and sound where your doing an hour show. But not a 4 hour US Midwest bar gig. Blue [/quote] I don't why she would want to sit thru a 4 hour bar gig on her own, unless of course it's the only chance she gets to see you! I suppose that it would depend on whether any of the other WAGs were going...