peteb

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1473094382' post='3126886'] Don't particularly want to rain on anyone's parade, but I'd actually be interested to know the names of some of the bands you guys were playing in rather than, 'Oh, I played here, here and here.' [/quote] But surely that would be terribly vulgar?? Biggest crowds I've played to have been a handful of main stages at some of the bigger northern bike rallies, about two to three thousand (bands were Spank The Monkey, or most recently Balls To The Wall).

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1472569952' post='3122214'] I've made comments about keeping a professional attitude. Even though I personally don't drink alcohol,I wouldn't drink at a gig any sooner than drinking at a traditional 9-5 job. [/quote] It should be noted that this is not necessarily the attitude of many top professional musicians. A singer that I've played the odd dep gig for was lucky enough to land a tour with a some well known musicians who used to be in a very famous British rock band. These guys certainly drank before, after and during a performance but could still play to a suitably high level . My mate (who it must be said, likes a drink himself) found it very difficult to keep up with them in the bar and then perform at a level to do himself justice. I suppose that the point is that it is not necessarily considered unprofessional to drink on a gig, but you are still expected to perform at the highest level regardless.

UFO & Thin Lizzy

the biggest gig I have played recently was a big bike rally last year. No linecheck or anything (headline band turned up late then took for ever to soundcheck so we didn’t get one) just straight on playing to 2,000 bikers. I hit the first note and nothing. Turns out I had damaged a connection when changing a battery earlier, a mate of mine fixed it in 10 minutes once we had worked out exactly what it was. I pulled my spare bass out of my gigbag and carried on as if nothing had happened. The drummer did not even realise there had been an issue until he saw a video of the gig and asked why I used a different bass! Only happened a few times in over 35 years of gigging, but for some reason it always seems to be at the bigger gigs! I know some pros only carry one bass and sometimes I do when there are space issues (always use a passive then) but I always take a spare whenever possible.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1471631294' post='3114666'] A mate of mine is a full time pro player, no teaching etc, he has a wall of fantastic basses but his us Lakland 55-94 gets all the gigs, to me the 55-02s feel a little less finished off than my 2010 Ray 5 and the 55-94s feel like a luxury Stingray to me, hard to describe but I find them just as molan describes above. If I could only have one bass it would be a 55-94, all the fun of my Rays (which have pickup switching as 5 stringers) but with the jazz pickup options I use from my Jazz 5. Proper working mans (persons!) bass. [/quote] Wasn't that their original selling point for the 55-94 & 4-94 - nothing fancy, just a deluxe stingray / jazz hybrid for working pros?? Always fancied one...

[quote name='markmcclelland' timestamp='1471338020' post='3112183'] Hey Pete Great to hear from you and really appreciate you keeping up. I hadn't thought about the tuning incident. That's a really good point in terms of being a bit of a microcosm. And yes. Let's jump to conclusions and blame the new guy. And make an issue of it right up there on the stage. And yes. I don't know their full bass player history but you might be right there too. I mean, they took that guy ahead of me in the first audition after, as they said, some debate, but then ditched him pretty quickly and came back to me. Also, when the call to end it came, I was asked if I could leave myself on stand-by if they ever needed cover in the future. I guess that says something too. Never thought about it at the time. Also, asking me to leave myself available for cover shows they can't have been that bloody unhappy with me. As for my set-up, you do also have a point but I will have to make a correction to what you've said there. First, in the original conversation before I joined, they confirmed they only played London gigs so as long as I could get myself to and from them, that would be fine - and with London transport being so comprehensive and given how well connected where I was living was, that was a total goer logistically at any time of night and day. That is until they suddenly decided they were going to play outside London with the first Luton gig. Their prerogative and an understandable move. But to then have a problem with me for not being able to get myself to and from those kind of gigs - as was quite clearly stated - was a completely unacceptable shift of the goalposts. Until then I had been able to get myself to and from all gigs. Alright there were teething problems but they would have been overcome. As for gear, this is where I have to correct you. What I had was absolutely fine. A nice big and sturdy 200w Trace Elliot. Spot on for just about any gig. That stayed in the van with them which is something I'd done with two previous professional bands in exactly the same ballpark with absolutely no issue. And to be fair, not only did I get the amp back pretty quickly, Craig also gave me a trolley to go with it which was a nice touch. And it's too late to edit it now as it's been quoted so I can't delete it so sorry. I did a spoiler. Yes, the PPs went on sabbatical not long after my time with them ended. For sabbatical I read broke up but I wouldn't rule out Craig and Matt forming a new version of the band at some point. And they have my very best wishes of good luck if and when they do. [/quote] The thing is that while they may have said that was OK for you to get to gigs by public transport, they were probably thinking it was less than ideal but that they could work around it. However, as soon as they got a gig out of town (which as always a possibility) then they seem to have decided that it was an issue. As an aspiring pro musician you ideally need to be in a position to be able to adapt to the unexpected, otherwise you are going to lose gigs to other bass players who can. As far as the amp goes, you might think that a 200w Trace combo is suitable for any gig but I’m not so sure. Put it this way, suppose that you and me had both been up for the PP gig. For the sake of argument, we will assume that we are at a similar level playing wise. You turn up for the audition on the tube with a bass and a borrowed 200w amp. I turn up in an estate car with a 410, a good 500w amp, a few pedals and a couple of quality basses (nothing unusual – pretty much the gear that every bass player in the better rock covers bands take out around here). If you can’t play then it doesn’t matter how good your gear is, but if there is little to choose between the guys who turn up then my guess is that they are likely to go with the one who seems to be better set up to play the type of gigs that they do! One of the interesting things about your blog is that we all find ourselves rooting for you, not least because the odds always seem to be against you (even more so than it is for any other aspiring pro muso). I am sure that you would agree that your prospects would be improved if you had some transport and a couple of grands worth of pro gear, but it is not easy when you are living in London working in a relatively low paid job. It is hardly surprising that the Punching Preachers decided to call it a day after it didn’t work out with you. They seem like a decent pub rock band that have just run out of steam, can’t find a line-up they are happy with and have nowhere else to go. From what you say, it seems like Craig was your champion in the band – perhaps you might work with him in the future if you decide to do a pub rock band again??

[quote name='markmcclelland' timestamp='1471273526' post='3111712'] Hey Mr Stylon. Thanks a lot for asking. Do you know what, I was thinking about that very thing after rereading it before the post the other day. I didn't want to get into the whole he said she said thing but OK. The question's been asked so here goes. First off he said I wasn't learning the new songs enough which made no sense to me whatsoever as, as far as I was concerned, I arrived to practice the best prepared of anyone with new songs - when there were new songs to be learned. The last practice, I said to one of the guys it was really refreshing to see a band come together really well prepared and he said, 'If they don't they get let go.' Fair enough I thought but then immediately thought, 'And that would be a bad thing why?' If anything, it was often me saying, 'No, it goes like this. Or, no, it's in this key, it just seems to be in that one.' Maybe with me still being the new guy that didn't sit well with them. They also cited lateness to gigs which is kind of fair enough as I did arrive at a few late as I was having trouble negotiating the transport system to new venues - and one day I got completely buggered when the timetable overground train I was waiting for just didn't come. Just removed from the timetable with the next one in half an hour or something. To make it worse, for some reason my phone wasn't working so I couldn't call them. I know that didn't go down well. On the whole, you could say, 'leave earlier.' Yep, couldn't argue with that. Fair enough. But when I did arrive late I made absolutely sure I more than pulled my weight on the setup or take down. But anyway, there were normally one or two people who straggled and were five or ten minutes late themselves. It's not like the arrival times were bang on strict and nothing was ever said to anyone. I was even first a few times and I was nearly always first for rehearsal. On one gig when I was a little late I felt so guilty at getting there to find everything set up that I made up for it by carrying every single piece of equipment to the van after. But even on that gig I was only about ten minutes late but that night they'd got there extra early and set it all up so it looked a lot worse than it was. So no I don't really know what the real reason was. Or maybe they think it was what they said, but like I said, totally refuted by me. But as I also said, it was amicable and, minor spoiler, I went to their last gig and was greeted very warmly by everyone and had a great night. Craig in particular gave me a huge bear hug and a massive exclamation of delighted surprise when I arrived. And they specially invited me to it too which was really nice. As I said, there was nothing wrong with any attitude or preparation but given my own thoughts it's just possible I was subconsciously putting things out there. I really was thinking for a while that it wasn't working out and that I wanted to leave but I hadn't been there that long so thought that would be a bit out of order. So I was thinking quite a bit, 'I hope they decide it's not working and make the decision themselves. And that's exactly what happened. As I said, it is just possible I did or said a few things or acted in a certain way to push them to come to that conclusion but I couldn't put my finger on exactly what. I think the overall vibe was friendly and Craig was great throughout all the gigs and everything but I always felt something was just a little off in general. It is just possible they didn't like all the other stuff I had going on and felt just didn't have my eye completely on their ball and was trying to make something happen for myself outside of their thing. They actually would have been right to have thought that. But as far as it being a reason, I'm really just speculating now. [/quote] From reading the blog, losing the Punching Preachers gig is hardly surprising. It seems that they are an established band with a few core members and a troublesome floating bass chair. They would possibly feel more comfortable with the original guy back in the band and anybody else just doesn’t feel right! You could tell that there were problems with the onstage tuning incident, where they were all too quick to blame you. In a band with a healthy dynamic there would have been a few comical looks and a bit of mickey taking with the whole thing being passed off as one of those things that happens on a pub gig, not let’s blame the new guy! However, they do have a bit of a point in that you are not really set up for a band like that playing those types of gigs. To be fair, you have no transport and pretty minimal gear, which maybe OK for gigs where you always have PA support and backline supplied (or where you can use in-ears and DI) butit's not ideal for standard pub gigs with a rock covers band.

One thing - without giving any spoilers, to what extent is the main character autobiographical??

Just bought the Kindle version. A bit of holiday reading in a few weeks...

Actually ot depends on the audience. If you get a crowd in a city centre pub who don't normally watch bands, then anyone bashing out energetic but recognisable versions of songs they can sing along to will do. But play in a pub where you get the same crowd watching bands every week then, believe me that's another story. They may not know exactly the reason why one band is better than another but they are quite capable of telling the difference. There is a reason why better sounding, better quality bands draw bigger audiences and get paid more...

[quote name='neilp' timestamp='1470787555' post='3108527'] If you could do it as well and as tight as Mr Clayton does it, root notes or not, you probably wouldn't still be playing in bar bands. In my opinion....... [/quote] Surely you're missing the point here. There are many far superior bass players to Adam Clayton playing in bars, but so what! AC is someone who 'got lucky in a band' but that band is U2, one of the biggest bands ever and he plays his part in that very well (made some terrific music as well IMO).

This is probably the only country in the world where people on a musician’s forum would argue that they should actually be treated worse than other musicians elsewhere in the world! Leaving the EU (or more precisely the EEA) is potentially a nightmare for British musicians, so why rush to make things worse than they have to be. Hopefully the organisations holding the negotiations will seek to minimise harm and make things as consistent as possible between the UK and the EU, so if this is in place it may well be retained. If nothing else, signing the petition may help to make life a little easier for our brother musicians on the mainland when they have to take instruments on a flight.

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1470580048' post='3106855'] Don't forget that this forum is populated by a self-selected set of bass fans, so it's likely that we can all appreciate the skilful playing of someone like Jaco. I know I couldn't play any of his stuff and can therefore genuinely admire his virtuosity. But it doesn't mean I actually like the music he plays and nor should it, necessarily. The two things are completely separate. [/quote] This is the thing that always gets me whenever Jaco’s name is mentioned on here. You would think that a forum consisting not just of musicians, but bass players or aspiring bass players would appreciate the musicality and the legacy of innovation even if they don’t like the music – especially as Jaco wasn’t just an amazing technician but a very skilful and funky ensemble player. I certainly don’t own every JP recording and if there is anyone who is predisposed to listen to and play straight 8s rock music then it’s me, but I can understand the musicality and the lasting influence he has had on the world of bass playing. FWIW I have just seen a Scot Devine clip where he discussed his personal top ten influences on him as a bass player. I would say that Jaco was an influence on most (if not all) of them and whilst nine out of the ten were very technical jazz players (the exception being Pino), none of those had his groove or soul, even if many might have arguably have surpassed his technical prowess.

Did a blues festival in Scotland a couple of years ago playing three gigs in three different venues (all within 500 yards or so of each other) back to back ie starting around 5 o'clock in the afternoon thru to 1 o'clock in the morning. It worked ok - the only problem was finding time to get something to eat...

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1470160661' post='3103747'] True, here in Milwaukee you'd never see an ad from Greg Koch or Daryl Strummer (Genesis) looking for a bass player. Blue [/quote] Let's be honest, guys like that are operating at a different level to most of us and you wouldn't expect to hear of those opportunities. The thing is that the better bar bands would never put an ad out for a new bass player.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1470160230' post='3103738'] That's what I thought, all start ups.An established band with work and money is involved are never advertised. And #3, says they're looking for the best. Sorry but your not going to get the best when your a start up. Blue [/quote] Every great band was a start up at some point. Quite often the best, most creative players want to start a project that they have a say in what it does, rather than fit in with an established band. Players of that standing have plenty of contacts and don't have problems finding work for a new band.

I don't think that there is anything wrong with any of those ads, but as stated above better bands will tent to recruit by word of mouth - either people they know or recommendations from people they know.

[quote name='BassBod' timestamp='1468426879' post='3090867'] Lovely cab, but it's a heavy bugger... [/quote] I had two of those in my rig for many years. Not as efficient as some modern cabs but sounded great. [quote name='JPJ' timestamp='1468435228' post='3090951'] You think that's heavy? [URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/JPJ/media/IMG_0864_zps17e5864c.jpg.html][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/JPJ/IMG_0864_zps17e5864c.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [/quote] I also had one of those! One of the best cabs I've ever owned.

Forgetting about the childish crap about music stands and not performing unpaid, it's an interesting thread because unfortunately this type of gig just not exist around here! We do get various motorcycle club rallies that are very similar in terms of PA, lights & staging etc. Everyone loves playing them as it gives you the chance to play on a big stage to a couple of thousand people, which is pretty cool for the average bar band. They usually pay the same as a well paid pub gig, although the bigger rallies may pay a couple of grand for the headliner (often one of the bigger rock tribute acts). Unfortunately a lot of these events are struggling financially these days and some have called it a day, but they are certainly great fun to play.

Right then, a number of points the first being this a skill you develop. Break the songb down into small manageable sections, say 2 or 4 bars at a time. Then before you pick up your bass sing the baseline out loud. Basically if you can sing it you can work out how to play it. It helps if you know your scales or have a very basic understanding of modes or chord tones as it will help you to recognise patterns more easily. These are the building blocks of al music and remember that there is a maximum of only 12 notes, so there are lots of patterns that you will find cropping up in all sorts of songs. Hope that this helps. Good luck.

[quote name='DarkHeart' timestamp='1465769313' post='3070902'] If I got spoken to like that he would have been on his arse within 30 seconds [/quote] The thing is that he was a karate black belt as well as being a pretty tough kid from Brooklyn to start with, so you might have struggled with that. Another reason why he could get away with acting like that, as well as being a renowned as being arguably the best drummer in the world (or at least the best known in his field) and a famous bandleader.

I believe that Art Blakey once said that Buddy Rich had great technique but "couldn't swing unless he was on the end of a rope"!

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1465483660' post='3068644'] Personally, I'm not impressed with any of these YouTube clips featuring young children playing instruments. Can the child read charts, manage and direct a band, travel and play 280 gigs a year? Buddy was a pioneer. Blue [/quote] [quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1465484724' post='3068660'] But surely the point of those videos is that the child is exhibiting prodigious talent and/or skill on their instrument for somebody of [i]x [/i]years - not to make direct comparisons between them and Buddy Rich...? [/quote] I think that the videos are particularly pertinent given that Rich himself first came to fame as a child prodigy drummer 'Traps the boy wonder'...!

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1465443441' post='3068253'] Caring, in this case is in the ear of the beholder. You heard swearing, I heard love and passion. Blue [/quote] Remember that all this love and passion used to occur when he had run out of dope, fallen out with his missus or had an outsider around who he wanted to impress with how tough he was!

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1465359278' post='3067493'] I do thInk there is a cultural difference here, spent a lot of time in US and I do think we could use /a bit/ of the "so try harder" mentality /sometimes/ - doesn't make getting medieval on someone ok though and profanity unneeded [/quote] I don't think that there is a cultural difference at al. There are plenty of bullies over here, I've met them at work and even been in bands with a couple (not fun) and even been accused of it myself (to a far far lesser extent of course). I mentioned Steve Vai before as an example of a band leader who refuses to accept anything but the very best, yet still manages to be a decent human being - there is no need to be like Buddy Rich unless your an overly aggressive little a-hole who knows he can get away with it. By all accounts Rich was hated in the business.