peteb

I'm at the Duck & Drake in central Leeds on the Sunday if you come up a night early...!

[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1461675564' post='3036642'] Not to be a pedant but Michael Rhodes is playing bass for Bonamassa these days... [/quote] He's not bad either...

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1461605182' post='3036094'] I know the feeling. Got the sh*t kicked out of me on TDPRI for 'judgemental sexism' having advanced the unremarkable hypothesis that middle-aged women are less obsessive about music than middle-aged men. One elderly Canadian gent took great umbrage so I playfully told him to go club some baby seals and that's when it all came unglued. [color=#ffffff].[/color] [/quote] Glad to see that your experience in Her Majesty's Diplomatic Service is not being wasted.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1461225150' post='3032538'] Fixed (I think; make little sense otherwise...). [/quote] I thank you...!

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1461216739' post='3032463'] This Unless it's the opportunity of a life time dont sign up if you have doubts Good luck [/quote] On the other hand, if you join a gigging band that are perfect for you then at least you are out there getting experience and getting your face known to put you in the frame for when the right opportunity does present itself.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1461200519' post='3032449'] Hi Pete, I think bands are also looking for someone who can commmitt. There are some guys out there that will audition knowing It's not the right time for them. Personally experience is important. I'm not sure I want to bring on a guy to a busy working band that has no gigging experience. Blue [/quote] Everybody has to start somewhere! Although there is an obvious issue if a relative novice is auditioning to join a band of highly experienced gig-hardened players.

IME the band are looking for two things – someone who can adequately cover the gig and someone who they want to spend a large part of their life with over the next few years. If you seem committed, can pick up songs quickly, lock in with the drummer, look like you belong in the band and seem easy to get along with then you will do fine. Bear in mind that they may be looking for certain things that may or may not be your strengths – so if they need someone who can sing a high harmony and you can’t sing then you won’t get the gig, no matter how well you can play. But if they get two guys who turn up and seem to be able to play their set well enough they will nearly always go for the one who seems to be a bit of a laugh – even if the other guy might be a slightly better player…

Bass Strings Online appears an American based operation, so if you were to buy 2 sets for example you would have to worry about import duties, etc...! Can't really compare them with a UK based shop.

I have always loved the sound of Barts and have them both on my Fender Am Std Jazz (along with an East Retro preamp) and my 57RI P bass. The jazz sounds great but not too much like what you might imagine a Jazz bass to sound like. I assume that this is more down to the east pre as the passive P bass sounds just like you would expect it too, but perhaps a little darker and more focussed.

[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1460318972' post='3024672'] The instrument is a tool. And that is all it is. What a player chooses to use it for is another matter. How well he can perform on it is another. And finally, we come to the crunch: Will anyone else be prepared to PAY him for what he wants to play? 2 Kinds of musicians in the word. Dilettantes who buy very expensive kit with no realistic chance of it earning its keep and.... the rest of us working stiffs. If you want to play the cool stuff, the best way of doing so is either having a great paying day job or to be working as a properly-paid pro musician giving punters what they want and reserving "down" time for having fun playing the stuff the punters dont want to hear. And of course the really sad part is that even if you DO manage to get enough work playing the cool stuff, sooner or later either you or the punters will get fed up with it and you are back to square one. [/quote] You are of course quite right in that an instrument is a tool. When I need some work doing on my house I usually try to see if I can get one of my tradesman mates to do the job for mates rates. When they eventually come round they always look at the many cheap tools I have collected over the years to bodge simple jobs around the house and tell me that I should have invested in some decent tools. Then they go out to the van and get their expensive top quality tools that they use day in and day out to enable them to carry out the job better than I ever could. Of course they would do a better job than I could with my crappy tools but they invest in top quality ones to enable make the work easier and to get better results.

I have them on one of my Warwick Streamers. The only drawback is you MUST have a strap with Dunlop straplocks to hand - you can't just use any old strap in an emergency!

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1460297559' post='3024425'] I don't know where we're going with this, but I'll offer this as a 'Jack of all trades'. Is he playing too loud or too quietly..? [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MywO9JryFqo[/media] Simon Phillips on the subject... [media]http://youtu.be/356Gq0qMTdE[/media] [/quote] I am quite aware of Kenny Aronoff being quite capable of playing hard rock, various pop sessions and big band jazz. Not surprising considering his early background, his classical training and then his wide-ranging experience of sessions & touring. The clip I had seen was this – all good stuff and shows what a versatile player he is. Note that he is still playing pretty hard at times. [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVsnnxpcsKI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVsnnxpcsKI[/url] However, I would still say that there are perfectly functional good drummers who cannot play across the full range of genres like Kenny Aronoff. I am playing with a drummer at the moment who can more than hold his own in a rock covers band, but if you put a pair of brushes in his hands then the most productive thing he find to do with them would be to clean his ashtray out! Equally, I knew a highly technical jazz drummer who would be completely lost at on a loud rock gig. No one is saying that a drummer should not play with dynamics or should be ridiculously loud all the time. just that you should always play at an appropriate level and for a rock band that should be reasonably loud.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1460297099' post='3024422'] It really depends on the audience. I saw a very good professional rock band at a Butlins night club once. Something wasn't right. They didn't have tattoos and it was just slightly missing a certain edge. It was a flawless performance though and the crowd thought it was awesome. So who am I to judge? The next night the same guys were wearing suits and backing some pop singer in the main ballroom. I would have put £1k on me being the only person to notice. [/quote] I would have taken that bet - in a big crowd (even in Butlins) there would have been someone else who knew their rock music and would have thought that it wasn't quite right. If that same band had played a proper rock venue then the majority of the audience would have noticed the difference!

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1460292128' post='3024368'] A [i]good [/i]drummer..? Yes, I would. [/quote] But would he really be a good drummer or merely a Jack of all trades, equally unconvincing in all genres??

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1460286048' post='3024318'] ... and I would claim that a good drummer is one able to play all styles at all appropriate levels. [/quote] Really?? Would you expect a drummer who plays in a small jazz ensemble to be equally convincing in a Metallica tribute??

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1460287992' post='3024341'] A good drummer is on who uses his ears and understands that he is playing in a band. [/quote] I would have thought that applied to all musicians.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1460269721' post='3024123'] As you say Pete, and it's the key point, you check with the landlord that it will be acceptable and don't play there if it isn't. Appropriate volume. Again. There's no point in turning up to play the gig and arguing all night with the landlord that "It has to be loud." If he is going to lose his pub license due to antisocial noise, you're not going to be asked back. Do these big name, big hitter, drummers ever play in their local pubs? I know plenty of drummers who say there is no point in playing certain venues as they will just be too loud for them. I'm sure they are quite capable of playing quietly, you can't play loudly all night. Without quiet sections everything is the same volume and you miss about 99% of what music is all about. [/quote] There is a problem in that you often get landlords who come into the business as music fans and want to promote live music, but their pubs are just not suited to it i.e. too small or a funny shaped room or (most importantly) noise problems with neighbours. IME it is best to just avoid those places like the plaque. Appropriate volume is the key thing and unfortunately you will just not be able to play at an appropriate volume at these gigs. I am sure that many of the big name, big hitter, drummers will play the occasional bar gig or small club. After all I know that top bass player Leland Sklar says that he does and I assume that he will be playing these gigs with a drummer! However, you can bet it won’t be at the type of pub described above. No one wants to see a band who are excessively or uncomfortably loud. And as far as drummers go, there is nothing worse than playing with one with no technique and who can’t balance out the way he plays i.e. bashes his cymbals so loud to leave your ears ringing for days afterwards but you can’t hear his bass drum. All good musicians should be able to play with a good command of dynamics, but to get a full dynamic range you have to be reasonably loud to start with. Bear in mind that a 100 piece symphony orchestra will utilise a fuller range of dynamics than you will find with any musical ensemble, but they will be way louder than any rock band! My main point is that there seems to be a general opinion on Basschat that a good drummer is a quiet drummer, and that is not the case…

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1460243295' post='3024053'] A misunderstanding here, I think. By 'reigning in', I mean from a volume point of view, not in intensity of performance. I, too, play rock, amongst other styles; I had, for weddings and the like in smallish restaurant halls, a set of elasticated cotton 'shower hats' which could slip over the toms and snare, cutting down the volume enormously, but retaining a pretty decent 'crack' when using rim-shots. Brushes, hot-rods, even mallets... they all help to give the tone required, in any circumstances. How many TV shows are to be seen with a drummer belting away like billy-o, but muted by the pads on the drums and cymbals..? Big players, playing big venues, can go full-tilt; when they play smaller places, they play the same way, but quieter. I maintain, stubbornly, that rock does not [i]have [/i]to be loud. Intense, yes, exciting, pulsing, hard-driven... All of that and more, but not [i]necessarily [/i]loud. Play as you wish, and good for you, but please don't tell me it can't be done. It can; all good drummers know how to, and do so. [/quote] A mate of mine (not an excessively loud drummer by any means) once said that he always needs to be playing loud enough so that ‘everyone can feel the backbeat’. Another mate who has been a pro for 30 years with a decent CV (including one really famous singer) and a well-known local drum teacher joined a decent paying function band and found that he could not play quiet enough for many of the gigs they did. His solution was to buy an electronic kit, which he hated but at least he could turn down to an acceptable level. Obviously there are some compromises that you have to make when playing smaller gigs and no one wants an excessively loud drummer. But you certainly don't want to compromise too much. The audience will notice and you will sound poor compared to better bands on the circuit who stick to their guns. Also, you have to accept that a drum will actually sound better if it is hit harder! Why do you think that John Bonham is still being sampled to this day and and is used as a reference for so many drum sounds? I remember an old interview with Rod Morgenstein where he talked about an early rock session he played where a producer was trying to get him to play less notes on the snare but to hit it harder. This was alien to Morgenstein, who came from a fusion background, so the producer got him to play two different grooves over the same track; one in his normal style with lots of grace notes and one playing harder but with fewer hits on the snare. The producer then got him to listen to the two different takes and see which one worked better. As a result Morgenstein said that he rethought his approach to playing rock music and cultivated a more Bonhamesque feel, playing less and hitting harder!

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1460224613' post='3023878'] Those big names (and they are all truly great...) won't be playing loud (I mean, not [i]overly [/i]loud...) when they're playing pubs or smaller venues, whatever the style. They know how to get what's required from the kit at the volume and dynamic that the venue needs; that's [i]why [/i]they're great. Yes, in an outdoor festival, or a stadium gig, or even the Woodstick halls, the volume can go up; they're miced up, too, for the PA, but also for recording.the event. In such a venue, I play louder,too; that's not a problem. When playing pubs and clubs, however, one plays rock 'reigned in'. There is only one reason why some drummers don't, and that's because they can't. It's a skill, it's not magic, just ordinary, good, solid, technical ability that can, and should, be learned and applied. If not, then I maintain the term 'lumberjack', not 'drummer'. [/quote] I’m sorry but I don’t believe for a second that Kenny Aronoff would ever go out and play a rock gig in public (in a club or wherever) at anything less than full pelt. After all, he has a reputation to uphold. And so have I, although obviously to a far far lesser degree. No rock band that I have been in would expect a drummer to ‘reign in’ their playing – it’s full beans or nothing! Frankly I would not go and see a band that would do that. Whenever we take a pub gig I always ask the landlord if he has any serious noise issues and if his crowd want to see a pretty loud rock band. Obviously there are some gigs that we can’t do but we still get plenty of work and draw a healthy crowd, mainly because they know that we will never ‘reign in’ a performance!

I’m going to go against the grain and say that good [b][i]rock[/i][/b] drummers tend to be loud. That’s just the way it is! Go on YouTube and look at all the top guys who get all the big gigs and you will see that in addition to being great technicians they are all pretty loud. Kenny Aronoff (an orchestrally trained percussionist) is a monster, as is Josh Freese, etc. Even someone like Gregg Bissonette isn’t what you would call quiet. I want to play with drummers who have good time, feel and (yes) power. Of course a lot of them are pretty loud, which is why I went and got proper hearing protection. A lot of the worse drummers I have played with have been some of the quietest.

From what I remember, bands were generally louder years ago – for one thing people seemed less concerned about damaging their hearing! Drums haven’t changed much since the 70s and guitarists tended to use valve heads and 412s, while we used 100w and then 200w amps with the master volume turned up to 9 (unless of course you could afford an early SVT or Acoustic rig). Then came the 80s and we all started using separate preamps and 500w PA poweramps in racks that that we could barely lift. Not to mention that every band had to carry around piles of multiple huge PA speakers and racks of amps, which have now been replaced by a couple of small boxes that do a far better job.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1460068742' post='3022407'] Interesting over here in the States the bar owners don't care if your to loud or too quiet. They're only concerned about whether or not they're selling enough alcohol. Blue [/quote] If only that was the case here...!