White Cloud

I really admire Ibanez. I think any company that is not scared to break out of the bass industries 60 yr Fender obsession by comitting serious money into developing original designs deserves great credit. I have always found their instruments to be extremely well thought out, ergonomic, infinitely playable and great sounding. This model is a bit of a slow burner for me personally...but I have no doubt (from experience) that if I picked one up and had a play with it I would want one lol!

Great basses. Ergonomic, light, comfortable, user friendly...a thoroughly well thought out design that works on every level. The barts sound fantastic. What else is there? Totally underated for reasons that are probably more to do with headstock name snobbery than anything else. I own the ash bodied 5 string version (sr605) and I regard it as the best value for money bass I have ever owned....and there have been dozens over the last 35 yrs. Highly recomended!

[quote name='Cyrene' timestamp='1356733048' post='1913129'] I know someone who's selling a honey blonde Classic '50s P for around £500 for what it's worth. [/quote] Would certainly not want to dis these as they are generally pretty good - but I owned a fiesta red version of this model & the neck pocket was a bit loose. Good bass otherwise.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1356730283' post='1913094'] I would look for a good condition used post 2008 American Standard , and the Basschat For Sale section is where I would look for it . Apart from being great basses , the added bonus would be that if for whatever reason you wanted rid , you could get your money back out of it with little or no depreciation . [/quote] Totally agree!

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1356615737' post='1911647'] I always ask both questions as both make a difference to me as to whether I would buy a bass. Nut width - I don't get on with a neck wider than 40mm. I haven't got small hands, I just find them much more comfortable. Weight - I have a bad lower back and wearing a bass that weighs more then 9lbs is uncomfortable intitially, next day it is extremely painful. (edit - before anyone trots out the 'it isn't about weight, it is about balance' stuff - for me and my particualr issues it IS about weight as much as balance) There are a lot of basses out there - no need to have one that doesn't suit. Happy new year! [/quote] Absolutely! I suffered a really bad lower back injury and anything over 9lbs is out of the question as my usual gigs require at least 3 hours of playing. I bought a Lakland sight unseen online (never a good idea) - and to my horror when it arrived it weighed almost 12 lbs!!! Needless to say it was unusable for me. I later bought another Lakland that weighed just under 8lbs. Weight is all important to me.

[quote name='lowregisterhead' timestamp='1356606520' post='1911516'] +1 for Laklands. I also have a Skyline Series Darryl Jones, and it's exceptional. Pick one up second hand, stick a John East preamp in it (very easy to fit yourself) and you'll have a bass that will knock spots off the vast majority of Fenders, IMO. [/quote] I used my Lakland Darryl Jones with an external Sadowsky pre-amp (the same 2 band eq fitted as standard on all Sadowsky basses) and quite honestly it was sublime. I picked up the DJ for £699 preowned and it was the equal of any jazz bass at any price....in my humble opinion!

[quote name='Gully35' timestamp='1356620730' post='1911701'] £1066 and some free strings. It's the same price everywhere I tried. Dawsons didn't have any in stock and I didn't want to wait a couple of weeks. The guy in the bass dept at the GAK shop was good to deal with, he made sure I was getting one of the basses they had in the shop rather than the online warehouse. [/quote] Congrats on the new bass! Nice one.

[quote name='clashcityrocker' timestamp='1356604030' post='1911477'] Second hand musicman sterling? If you can find one they are seriously good basses and the thin neck profile will suit you after the jazz. And I think with the 3 band eq and 3 way pick up selector,probably any sound you could want (certainly is enough for me). What I can't work out about fenders is a standard mex jazz is around 500 and the re issues and '60s' jazzes etc go for £300 more,surely worth getting an American special,although they confuse me even more! [/quote] Agree regarding the MM Sterling, great basses. Fender has really confused the market imo; US models of varied quality and price, Jap models, cheap Mex models, more expensive Mex models, cheap squiers, more expensive Squiers. Just found out that as well as the jap Geddy Lee there is now a Mex Geddy Lee....aaaaaaagh! Its just ridiculous. Far too many variants on one theme.

[quote name='jackers' timestamp='1356571117' post='1911355'] To be honest, I have played somewhere close to 100 Fenders, (my own, other people's and shop stock; I am fender mad ), and I have only disliked 1 of them. It was an MiM, perfectly playable, nice build quality, but it sounded like cr@p, haha I understand that different people have different standards etc, but I'm not quite sure that I subscribe to the idea that you have to try a Fender before you buy it. I haven't found a Fender that I couldn't get on with within 2 or 3 minutes of casual playing. and besides, if you really don't like it, you have 7 days to return it and get another one [/quote] I like Fenders and have also owned and played quite a few...but I would say you have been lucky. The quality is variable in my experience. The new US models currently being produced are some of the best I have played. Fender has finally got their s**t together!

This is really dangerous in my experience when buying mass produced instruments like Fender etc. When buying online you may get lucky or you may get a real dog. I wouldnt recommend it but you may get lucky. I once bought a Lakland 44-01 online sight unseen and when it arrived it was outrageously heavy for a 4 string at around 12 lbs. It was the last one the particular retailer had in stock so was a little cheaper...obviously nobody else wanted it because it weighed so much. Be careful. If you do decide to go down this route give Thoman.co.uk a try. I found their service to be extremely professional.

[quote name='marcus bell' timestamp='1356456849' post='1910338'] If I had the money I'd have a series 2 alembic in the original body shape , but for now I'm gunna try getting one of these Alembic series 1 Alembic mark king Alembic distillate Hopefully something will pop up [/quote] I have first refusal on your Alembic this time next year when you are moving it on!

From personal experience I highly recommend you check out Laklands. My Darryll Jones was superior to any Fender jazz bass I ever owned or played...including some nice vintage models. Lakland also used to do a Joe Osbourne jazz..they were highly regarded also. Sandberg also do some nice jazz basses as do Sadowsky, but they are a bit pricey.

Wal anyone?

[quote name='bassman344' timestamp='1356385833' post='1909891'] As I look around. . . .. Not many people constantly playing Rics, or Alembics may I tentatively suggest.....? Everyone's playing different stuff apart from Lemmy whose spine is probably hewn from a Ric 4003. I love the guy and his music, always have and always will. Motorhead are all that never changed in my schooldays. If Ric would do something about the awful topographical situation around the bridge pup and the U bend from hell it might tempt me back but until then I will admire how they look but despise how they play in my hands. Open Ric-heart surgery to adapt to a u-bend free version leaves a trough which is just a mess. See pic. Why not make the two pups the same as the neck pup and lose the drama. [/quote] Ricks?? Just look at the design...classic! For me seeing Geddy Lee and Chris Squire playing them blew my mind. I dreamt about them when I slept at night. I eventually owned two 4001's and just loved the twang they made with new Rotosounds fitted. After a while though I became annoyed when there was always something missing from my low end with them. Still love them though. Lemmy is outstanding. The real deal and he really is walking the walk and always has. I couldnt imagine HIM playing an Alembic...EVER lol!

[quote name='bassman344' timestamp='1356382266' post='1909844'] I had a bad experience with Rickenbackers. I had bought and sold three in the space of a year. Total money out was in excess of £4,800.00 and I was left with a very sour taste in the mouth and not all the money came back the way it went out so I am very skeptical of VERY expensive basses. The Ric bass ideal I had adored all my youth was a disappointment. My playing style clashed miserably with a Laredo, a 4003 and a 4003FL. The neck profile/shape and the U bend on the 4003 was the reason. I bought a mid range Dingwall (ABZ) before lashing out on a dear one and they are worth every dime - but again it's not everyone likes them and that's their right. I love the playability, string tension on the B and the look on peoples faces as they try to figure out what's different on the fretboard. I will continue to try to climb the Dingwall model tree until I reach the top. Perhaps time will heal my gripe with this. Either that or the good Lord will deliver an opportunity to test drive new basses for some luthier somewhere as a full time job. [/quote] I was an avid Rick player in the 80's...just loved them - then suddenly they felt wrong. I looked around & everybody seemed to be playing Jaydee's, Wal and Status. I switched to Wal so hey ho. Its horses for courses! love Dingwall basses but havent owned one...yet lol.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1356380895' post='1909816'] If it's any consolation , I think I have seen Orions secondhand in the Gallery in London for not much over a grand , if I remember correctly . At those prices you could take a risk on one and if you didn't like it you will always get your money back out of it . There are plenty floating around that people brought in from the States before the crash when you could get two dollars to the pound so used Alembics could be brought over from shops or ebay sellers in the States for silly prices . If you want to try an Alembic I wouldn't despair . When it comes to basses , it's ultimately a buyers market by virtue of the sheer quantity of used gear out there . [/quote] Good advice here. This is just what I did, i.e. paid just over a grand for a used Spoiler to put my toe into the water so to speak. This combined with my experience with my friends Series 1 left me somewhat disapointed...it burst the bubble of 30 yrs of Alembic GAS. I am also of the opinion that the mega high price ATTRACTS a certain type of buyer. Its almost like a placebo type affect....."I have paid out for the most expensive bass that money can buy, therefore I have the worlds greatest bass, therefore I have become great too!" lol. In fact in the aftermath of my personal Alembic experience I spent the next few years (after moving it on) only playing passive Fenders and Laklands.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1356374445' post='1909721'] Or buy something more affordable. I just don't like the look of them. Or Fedoras. Or Ken Smiths. I fully realise this makes me crass and shallow, but there it is. [/quote] It doesnt mean you are crass at all....it means you have a different taste. If we were all the same it would be a boring world!! Anyway, the name playing the bass is more important than the name on the headstock.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1356369139' post='1909628'] They are delicate in the sense that there is a lot to go wrong on them . The electronics on a full-spec Alembic ( and even some of the lesser models ) are very complex by most standards , and it can be difficult to get them fixed properly by anyone except Alembic . Also , the necks can be prone to needing regular adjustment according to some reports , and the dual truss rods can be a bit of a challenge . Bear in mind that Alembic started out as a kind of instrument technology collective for Bay Area musicians rather than as a strictly commercial undertaking and you get some idea of how their unique approach to just about everything has come about . A lot of the things we take for granted nowadays such as neck-thru body construction , use of exotic woods , brass bridges and active electronics were all [i][b]invented [/b][/i]and / or pioneered by Alembic and considering that , you begin to realise their massive contribution to the industry . [/quote] Dont forget that Alembic also pioneered the use of Graphite necks (in conjuction with what is now the Modulus company). Yes they pioneered so much of what is now industry standard and have earned their kudos imho.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1356365451' post='1909570'] Alembic basses might not be everybodies cup of tea , but the price comes very much from the way that they are built . They use a labour-intensive process that takes a lot of skilled man ( and woman ) hours for each bass they produce , and so to maintain half decent profit margins the price is neccesarilly high . Add to that the top quality timbers and the fact that all the hardware and electronics they use are proprietary rather than bought- in packages from other manufacturers and you begin to see where the price comes from . Alembic are a unique company with a unique and uncompromising approach to instrument making ; they sincerely believe that if they did it any other way then they just wouldn't sound like Alembics anymore , and in my book that kind of integrity is always a good thing . Their basses are certainly an aquired taste , and their older more traditional designs don't suit me personally , but they are great basses nevertheless . I much prefer the more recent designs like the Esscence Bass , and always bear in mind the Alembic are the original custom bass builders and will bend over backwards to help you design your dream Alembic regardless of what model it is based on . Alembic basses are quite delicate and need careful use and maintainance , but so are a lot of other brands of high -end bass in my experience . The Alembic is not for those who want to beat it and forget about it , that's for sure . Also bear in mind that the quoted retail prices are only a guide ; you get a big discount off that when purchasing through an Alembic dealer if you live in the U.S.A . Other bass builders have caught up with Alembic in certain respects when it comes to high quality custom basses , but Alembic are still a preeminent bass builder . One thing is certain - nothing sounds quite like an Alembic . [/quote] Pretty much agree with the above. Alembic set the ball rolling back in the day regarding hand built basses. I'm old enough to remember when hand made basses were a huge novelty and not many builders were doing it. At that time Alembics were something that you dreamt of and lusted after. Nowadays however there are literally countless makers building basses every bit as good...and for considerably less. I tried Alembic but it didnt work out for me...it is subjective though. More strength to Alembic though. Their order book is full so plenty of folks want them. I would however always buy used if I really wanted one because I firmly believe they are very overpriced new.