molan

I think it's interesting to compare the values of bog standard US Fenders with MusicMan. A new US Standard is around £1,250 whereas a Stingray is closer to £1,500. However, on the used market they are trading at pretty much the same price. If we take £750 as an 'achievable' price, purely for the sake of comparison, then the Fender is losing 40% from new (pretty much a market average for a lot of instruments) whereas the Ray has dropped 50%. I don't think this can be because there are more Rays around than US Fenders. Feels like it's simple market demand and that Rays are just a little less popular. I'm sure it wasn't that long ago that a Ray would almost always command a premium of £50 - £100 above its equivalent Fender but prices are a lot closer now. I don't know the history of the new market well enough to know if it's just recent thing in terms of depreciation but that extra £250 (even more if you go for some colours) must be hurting sales a fair bit.

Yamaha Attitude - the Billy Sheehan signature bass, especially if you run each pickup into an individual amp. That neck woofer can sound huger than a very huge thing indeed if set up properly

[quote name='gsgbass' timestamp='1381588406' post='2241065'] The Mesa sell only at MSRP. They are worth the bucks. Another good option to the Mesa, the [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/xcjkEMY.gif[/IMG]. [/quote] Not in the UK, you can definitely buy Mesa at below RRP if you know where to look. In fact I think it's against EU regulations to price fix. Some of the new Mesa cabs are a fair bit cheaper than the older ones as well. They don't have the flash adjustable crossovers and there are some other design differences but it really helps in prices Happy to advise on pricing stuff if anyone wants to PM me

BassGear have a few on trial if anyone wants to try one out

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1381583277' post='2240954'] Yes I had a good go on it there - way too much on it for my needs but the sound of this thing through a 1x12 Markbass cab was amazing. [/quote] I thought this sounded really nice through that MB 1x12. Had a quick play and it was fun. A lot less impressed when I heard it through a 'competitive' speaker brand (I won't name which or the flame-crew will be out very quickly, lol). Could be that it needs 'fine tuning' to match different cab setups though.

New MusicMan prices have rocketed. It's not dealers trying to make a fast buck either, I've seen the trade prices Used values don't seem to have moved much but some, like the Classics, are holding values really well and sell quickly. As a new purchase I'd say the standard Ray is one of the fastest depreciating basses around. They can lose 50% of value very quickly even if kept in immaculate condition.

[quote name='gafbass02' timestamp='1381662727' post='2241884'] To be read with a sense of whimsy. Not a rant. Gaf [/quote] I agree with so much of what you've said here Gaf. I've definitely been accused of not being to hear properly by BF owners in the past By complete chance I also have a lovely little Bergantino AE210 sitting right next to me as I'm typing this

[quote name='Salt on your Bass?' timestamp='1381574689' post='2240764'] Wow, good luck with white!! I like to look after my gear as well but there's an ocd side to me that couldn't deal the fear of a white cab getting a mark!! [/quote] I had a pair of the white Aguilar DB112's, with a dark ox-blood grille, for a while Looked awesome on stage and never really picked up any marks that I remember. I did keep them in Aggie's own padded covers when moving them around though, way better than the cheapo aftermarket ones.

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1381494328' post='2239830'] Whats this? Another Bareface thead? [/quote] Brilliant

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1381491676' post='2239764'] Are you implying these people can't actually play bass and have been hiding behind their rumbly muffled 70s-type cabs all this time..? I'm quite sure that couldn't [i]possibly [/i]be the case! [/quote] I think that's exactly what some people think

[quote name='mildmanofrock' timestamp='1381490033' post='2239732'] Each to their own and all that. To me, Barefaced cabs are staggeringly good. I'd wager that dissenting voices come from people that (a.) don't like the shock of hearing their pure bass tone (b.) are unused to the cabs' prominent mids. That may come from years of getting used to the mid-scooped tone present in many cabs. But, for me - nothing cuts through a band mix with such clarity and warmth. And if the cab's mids and highs are too much for your taste, simple - turn down the mids and highs a bit on your amp. [/quote] I'm not having a go at you but it's statements like this that I really don't understand. Lots, and lots, of people have tried BF and really don't like them - look at how many come up for sale in the classifieds. However, whenever anyone says they don't really like them there's always a stack if people saying those people must be hearing things incorrectly and/or they don't really know a good bass tone when they hear one. I just don't see how this could possibly be the case.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1381488886' post='2239712'] Here's my guess: Listening to one brand against another in isolation (possibly in a shop) is no way indicative of how those cabs are going to sound at a gig in a band situation and at battle levels. I found that the S12 I was using sounded [i]absolutely[/i] perfect live, but on its own at home (for example) less so. But of course it's the sound 'in concert' which counts - unless you're Michael Manring, of course. Basschatters know well that the sound of a rig in isolation has [i]no [/i]bearing on how it will sound 'on the night', so to speak. [/quote] It was in a large room, not the shop, but was in isolation. I've always found BF to sound very 'forward' in isolation but have only heard one once in a band mix and it was a bit subdued. Loads of other stuff in the band mix though and it could just have been that it was low in the PA mix. My personal favourites of the lightweight cabs in a live band situation are the Aggie SL112's. I've heard a few people using these live and never fail to be impressed. However I know some people aren't keen on them and I think they are more sensitive to amp matching than the Berg equivalent. Just 'horses for courses' really

[quote name='LeftyJ' timestamp='1381441925' post='2239337'] So does Rickenbacker. All 4000 series basses are 33 1/4 inch. [/quote] Amazing - I've played loads of Ricky's and never noticed they were shorter scale! I guess the overall ergonomics of a Ricky are so different to anything else that I've simply not spotted a different scale length. There's a V63 for sale at the shop I help at. Definitely going to try it in a new light when I'm back in next week Mind you, I can never play them without reaching for a pick, lol.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1381441138' post='2239315'] Polarised is right. I borrowed a Super Twelve for a few months and I liked it very much. Not heard the 3rd Gen stuff yet, but I was blown away by the S12 and will be buying a BF cab ASAP. I can't imagine how anyone who's heard one wouldn't like it! Horses for courses and all that, I suppose. [/quote] I agree - lots of people on BC seem to really rate them so they must work for them. Meanwhile I saw a one demo'd recently against a well known brand and several people were pulling ugly faces because they didn't like the sound. It's this extreme polarisation that I don't understand really. Usually when you hear a few things back to back you'll get people preferring one brand to another because of smaller differences but with BF you seem to get this big love/hate thing going on. I've genuinely met people who were nearly frothing at the mouth about how much they dislike them but then here on BC there's obviously a huge love for BF. It does seem quite common for people to buy them and then sell again soon after so there must be some core tonal characteristics that just grate on certain people very quickly. You often see this with basses but not so much with cabs so that's what intrigues me I guess

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1381439835' post='2239281'] Do you think it's because people in the real world like to hear with their eyes? [/quote] To be honest I think it's the reverse - I keep meeting people who really, really, don't like how they sound. I've never known a single brand to polarise people so much. You get brands that people aren't keen on all the time but it's rare for people to have such a strong dislike of a brand's core sound. You see a lot of them for sale in the classifieds. . .

I always knew there must be someone out there that actually likes the BF paint finish and now we know who

I saw Vic live playing bass for Bootsy - he can be as funky as hell when he's in the mood He was so good Bootsy didn't even pick up a bass and just sang!

[quote name='machinehead' timestamp='1381427521' post='2239044'] Seeing a Barefaced cab isn't what he needs - he needs to [u][i]hear[/i][/u] one, that's all........... Frank. [/quote] From a purely personal point of view I think seeing a BF in the flesh is really important - especially if comparing to a Bergantino. The quality of finish is leagues apart and really puts lots of people off. I genuinely can't understand why BF persist with the covering materials they use. I've never known a brand of speakers to get such a 'marmite' reception. People here on BC seem to love them but I meet so many people in the 'real world' who've bought some on spec and then sold them really quickly because they disliked them so much

I'm hooked on 33.3" scale now - big money option though as I only know of Jens Ritter that makes them!

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1381313742' post='2237289'] Cool! I like Swamp Ash. Nice and resonant and light. I hate to think how much Fred's R8 cost though! [/quote] The ash one weighs just 7.25lbs! Which one is Fred's R8? I can price it up for you if you want

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1381310708' post='2237221'] It's a bit annoying that Jens doesn't just have a price list on his site. I'd like to know that I'm wasting my time with a click rather than an email!! [/quote] Jens used to have prices on the site but had a few issues with people getting confused over the base price vs options and, more importantly, international exchange rates. The exchange rate issue caused lots of problems in some of the larger sales markets like USA and Japan and it was too complicated, for a tiny luthier business, to keep updating prices in line with local markets. He had an online currency converter on the site for a while but it simply wasn't accurate in terms of actual costs of buying currency and, obviously, couldn't allow for shipping and import duties. In continental Europe he maintains a fixed price Euro quoting system. For UK, USA and Japan he has authorised dealers who handle everything for him. Base prices are the same as if you were to order direct - at least that's certainly the case in the UK. The system now is that you can zap an email via the site and get a quote back within 24 hours. Simplest way is to pick something in the history gallery and then ask for an estimate on how much it would cost to replicate. Prices start just over £4K for a 4 string Cora like the one pictured. The ash body is a standard price option but it has been stained and sandblasted which adds to the price. It also has a minor electronics upgrade to give a passive option with independent tone control.

They've been pretty much 'dead' for a while but I kept seeing that they were looking for a new investor. Have they definitely shut up shop for good now? Prices have been rising over in the US but not so much over here yet.

I always thought doing my own basic setup was fine. I'm comfortable with bridge height, truss rods, intonation etc. etc. However I've recently been working with one of those guys who does this for a living and charges for his services. He can really, really make a big difference and is much better than anything I can do by a margin that I think it's acceptable to pay for. I'd happily recommend him to anyone who really wants their bass to feel that bit better to play. One thing I would say is that the margins between what I can do and what he's able to do are greatest the lower the required action is. For light touch players who want a super low action right across the board his expertise makes a real difference. He took in a 7 string he other day that played well but the owner wanted it to go lower and be more even playing everywhere. He removed the neck, shimmed it slightly, filed the nut, sorted out some badly fitted frets, adjusted both truss rods, adjusted spacing, re-set the bridge, set intonation and matched pickup heights. It played superbly when he was finished and the owner was grinning from ear to ear when he picked it up. He couldn't believe the transformation. Cost was £60 and, in my opinion, worth every penny