molan

I wonder if all the hardware is hypo-allergenic?

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1377680207' post='2190148'] That's if you can find any in South Oxfordshire. [/quote] All the girls in Henley are virgins, dahling

I am now planning to have all my basses upgraded to feature "pickups wound by virgins"

Oly White is one of my favourite Fender colours. We've got three CS Jazzes on order and I'm really looking forward to them arriving One is an Oly White with matching headstock, there's also a Sonic Blue with matching headstock and mild relic Sunburst stack knob. Couple of P's on the way too might be here next month with any luck!

Pleased this rhread was started. It reminded me that I've got a stack of ludicrously expensive Analysis Plus cables sitting around doing nothing. All brand new and never used. Must stick them up in the for sale section

Vintage Ampeg B15's - or the American Heritage ones for that matter. Most brands seem to be easier to find these days if you look hard enough.

Thanks for all this guys. I really am a novice when it comes to pedals! I'm working for a few days so won't get a chance until Thursday to try things out properly

[quote name='Pinball' timestamp='1377522016' post='2188405'] I think that's fair enough except that 45 sounds a little excessive to me, unless you have lots of arms that is. Note: lucky him I couldn't afford to keep them strung [/quote] I don't think he pays for strings

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1377520427' post='2188371'] Just because you see you're favourite pro on stage with a burst and tort fender don't think for a minute these people done have a healthy personal interest in music, I know a pro who is a member here who has a fantastic collection of rare and custom built basses but they are mainly for his pleasure in the studio rather than his main gig although they do on occasion get out. [/quote] I know just such a person - usually gigs with a new'ish Fender P. Has 45 other instruments that only get used in the studio on session work Everything does get played though.

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1377516776' post='2188320'] If you want to know about buying guitars for investment look no further. Here is an article from the 'Wall Street Journal' quoting a world renowned, vintage guitar collector and expert. [url="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324436104578579071945355516.html"]http://online.wsj.co...1945355516.html[/url] [/quote] These are vintage and not new though? I certainly agree that it's possible to make some money on vintage instruments (although the market is still pretty dead at the moment).

So I've spoken to a pair of very high end manufacturers and asked them if they thought their new basses were ever bought as investments. The answer was a unanimous negative. Neither of them thought their instruments would rise in value in any sort of short / medium term market as they immediately lose value as soon as they are sold. This was believed to be just as true of limited edition runs - the additional rarity of a limited run may increase desirability and help them to sell quicker but, in the main, they didn't think they'd go beyond the price when new. Both said they realised that this may not be true over a longer period. EG If an instrument costs £1,000 now and the new price rises by £100 a year for ten years then it would be judged against a £2,000 value. Taking an average used value of 40% of the new price into account his could easily mean the £1,000 bass could be worth £1,200 = £200 profit. However this would almost certainly necessitate new prices to rise ahead of inflation. If you were buying purely as an investment you'd need to look into cost of capital (as in what else could you have used that money for and how much would it have risen). On this basis a new guitar is rarely going to make any significant profit for a very long time. Of course it's never as clear cut as that and most people aren't pure investors so they are getting some sort of personal gain simply from owning and playing and some will literally earn money from them as pro musicians. The net view was that it would be fairly foolish to be buying new guitars purely as investments (because there are a lot of other ways to make money more efficiently) and neither of the builders were aware of anyone doing this at the moment. They'd certainly never heard of a business corporation buying new instruments as investments, although one mentioned the effect that Hard Rock have had on 'artist owned' authenticated guitars. N.B. They both said they hardly ever sell to members of the public at trade shows. Anything nice is either pre-sold (this is really common for both NAMM and MusikMesse) or snapped up by dealers before the public get a chance. Again, the few private buyers that go direct are very much keen players and not investors. Of course two builders is a small sample but their views were more or less identical so hopefully reasonably representative.

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1377388659' post='2187084'] I like your arithmetic. The next time you have a surplus bass, could you send it my way please? [/quote] I think we've only ever given one bass away - it was a competition prize. Unfortunately it appeared for sale on EBay very soon afterwards We have sold a few basses at below cost to very young students though. It's not really our standard customer base but every now and then we get a low cost bass in PX and we've let a couple go cheaply to aspiring young players

Damn - just checked and the web site says closed on bank holidays

Wunjos is about he only decent place near Covent Garden. The trick on going to the Gallery is to dispatch the girlfriend off to Camden Market. Loads to see and plenty of bars, restaurants, coffee shops etc to meet up later. It's just a few minutes walk apart so she can browse the market stalls whilst you partake of much bass goodness As previously said - definitely need to check if it's open on a BH Monday though.

[quote name='Les' timestamp='1377430486' post='2187354'] I've read the reviews and heard all the one trick pony stuff, and to be fair it is, but what a usable tool for that money. [/quote] If that one trick is the one you're looking for then it's brilliant I must admit that I often find very little use for loads of tonal trickery on a bass. I generally set everything flat and just make minor tweaks. About the only inboard control I use is to cut a little high end on certain songs. I had a real cheapo EBO type bass for a while, Aria I think. I really liked the sound but the neck dive and cheese grater action eventually killed it for me. I gave it to a young teenager who desperately wanted to learn bass. A few years later I heard he'd become a decent drummer, often wondered if the Aria put him off bass for life

I think the big difference is whether something is bought purely to make profit or whether its market value has changed over time (for whatever reason). I've bought and sold loads of basses and I've made a profit on some and lost money on others. I've only ever bought things because I genuinely wanted to try them out. Some stuff I've hated almost immediately (a Status Mark King springs to mind). Others I've simply got bored with or found after a while that I either didn't like them much or simply preferred something else. My ideal is not to lose money on anything - I'd assume no-one goes out of their way to deliberately lose money? If I've played something for a few years and damaged it then I'd definitely expect it to have cost me some money. Conversely if I've kept something in pristine condition and its market value has shot up then I'd expect to sell it for what it's worth today not when I paid for it (of course this doesn't happen vey often!). I guess an example might be a Warwick - their values have plummeted so there's some real bargains around. If I bought one now for £500, played it now and then, and then in five years time they've bounced up to £1,000 then surely it would be a bit odd for me to put it up for sale at £500?

[quote name='leroydiamond' timestamp='1377464407' post='2187910'] The investors I know of are working musicians. That's when the investment in a high end instrument are realised. I purchased a Sadowsky nyc in 2009, a superb bass, superb flamed top in excellent condition. It has more than paid its way and owes me nothing. It would be an easy sell, but not at more than I paid for it. However the money I have earned with it, together with the joy it offers due to its excellent build has made it an excellent investment. [/quote] Now that makes complete sense to me That's exactly the kind of thing we hear from many pro buyers. Their instrument is an investment in their musical career. In fact the example I gave earlier of a Fender owner that paid £8k for something that's now worth £5k is a perfect example - he's earned some serious money from that bass and it's repaid itself many times over

[quote name='krysh' timestamp='1377464056' post='2187904'] you really like to turn around my words, don't you? I don't give a sh*t what you believe, but I definatively know at least one collecter in person who is doing exactly this. eom. [/quote] Maybe something is getting lost in translation here. All I'm saying is that you've met one person who buys brand new instruments purely as investments and that my experience working in an expensive instrument store and dealing with hundreds of buyers has demonstrated that not one single person has been buying as an investor. I'm not doubting that you know someone who's doing this. I'm merely responding to the OP thread that asked if this was a common thing. In my direct experience it clearly isn't, neither am I getting any feedback from any of my expensive bass building clients that suggests this is a common occurrence either.

[quote name='krysh' timestamp='1377462853' post='2187888'] ofcourse they don't walk into shops. they go to namm and musikmesse and deal directly with the manufacturer. it is an investment, what do you think??? [/quote] Seriously, you genuinely think NAMM and MusikMesse are flooded with private individuals buying high end basses as an investment? NAMM is technically not even open to the public and, as far I know suppliers cannot take money at the event (although they could obviously agree a deal and take the money later). Most of our suppliers, who are amongst the highest end luthiers out there sell virtually nothing at either of these events. In fact some of them refuse point blank to deal with the public. I know this because private buyers regularly contact them direct and they simply refer them back to us. Our deals with them mean that buying through a retailer is the same price as if they buy direct. The makers are happy to do this precisely because they don't want to deal with private individuals. I'll have to ask them how many instruments they sell at these events. It'll be interesting to hear first hand what they say.

[quote name='krysh' timestamp='1377460829' post='2187859'] yes, this is what I tried to say before. [/quote] I have to say that I am genuinely amazed. I've worked off and on in a high end bass guitar retailer for close to 3 years and not a single customer has bought a new bass from us an investment. In fact one of the most common comments we get is that they know sir instruments will drop in value the moment they walk out the door. The investors must all be buying from The Gallery. . .

[quote name='krysh' timestamp='1377458682' post='2187826'] @ molan: you have your experiences and I have mine... if this is so important for you to show some middle aged amateur musos playing expensive instruments at pub gigs, I'm fine with it. they enjoy themselves and that is fine. I know that most professionals just can't afford them. so what. this is life... I'm only sad that so many good expensive instruments dont get treated like they should be., becaus it almost always is about the money... I 'm happy with what I have. [/quote] I really don't understand what you mean? Are you saying that, in your experience, you know for an absolute fact that high end instruments are being bought as investments by people? I know a 15 year old that plays a Fodera Yin Yang at his school. Not sure if I have any pictures but I'll have a look for you. In fact the most expensive bass I've ever sold (£9,000+) has been to a student who's worked his arse off doing evening jobs to afford it. He's doing a post grad in music theory and will undoubtedly become a pro player. I know lots of professionals that can afford expensive instruments. In fact the Yin Yang Custom pictured above is not owned by a professional player who teaches 54+ hours a day and gigs in the evening. I've yet to meet anyone who's bought an expensive bass that doesn't treat it well or gig with it. This has nothing to do with the fact that they might have more money than someone else. Not one of them has some sort of mythical inherited wealth. They all work for their money and decide to allocate a chunk of it on an expensive bass.

[quote name='krysh' timestamp='1377457242' post='2187800'] a lot of them you will find in here: [url="http://www.zwick4u.com/"]http://www.zwick4u.com/[/url] all of the instruments are real. i. e. look at the 3 alembics above the bar in zwick st. pauli. the owner uli salm is probably the biggest bass collector in germany, and yes he still is gigging, but not the ones on the walls in his clubs.... [/quote] Buying instruments as decoration for a music club to make it look more 'impressive' is very different from what the OP was referring to. The Hard Rock chain has been doing this for years and, I believe, includes their value on balance sheets. However these are almost always used instruments and with artist connections. They aren't going to luthiers and commissioning new builds or buying up brand new high end guitars from retail shops.

Shock horror, a Fodera actually being played, in public, in a cricket club bar! This is a Monarch Yin Yang Custom - price new £10,500, very rare, only 6 made a year by probably the highest end most desirable maker on the planet (certainly in terms of average unit price) sold used by previous owner after 12 months at £7,500 - loss 29% Even bigger shock - it's a one off Ritter Roya Custom 5 - and someone has the nerve to play it down the pub! : This one was bought new by the current owner so it's harder to value on the used market but he certainly didn't buy it as an investment - it's his regular gigging bass. . . Apologies for the pic qualities but they are good old 'band down the pub' snaps so not always the best quality

[quote name='visog' timestamp='1377456423' post='2187779'] There's loads of Jimmy Page Gibsons in glass cases in corporate offices that will never get a single note played on them... [/quote] Where - I managed to work for over 30 years at a large ad agency and had clients in big corporate offices all over the world. I've never seen a single guitar in any one of them. Maybe you've visited different types offices to me though. . .

New high end basses depreciate just as fast, if not faster, than many cheaper ones. There's no way anyone in their right mind would buy one as an investment. Buying vintage Fenders could definitely be a potential investment but it doesn't always pay off. I know someone who paid £8K for a lovely Vintage Jazz when the market hit an absolute peak, it's worth something like £5K now. It'll rise again but not for a good few years. I love the fact that whenever the topic of expensive instruments comes up there's always someone that says the buyers of these don't actually play them or ever take them out to gigs. It simply isn't true. Why would anyone buy a guitar if they didn't intend to play it? It's a big old lump of cash to 'invest, in a plank of wood and some metal if it's just going to sit in the corner of the room. Especially if it's a new one and will have lost 30% of its value with the first year or so. I've met pub gig players with stunning high end instruments, off the top of my head I've seen Fodera, Ritter, Alembic, Wood & Tronics, Sadowsky, F Bass, Brubaker, GB, pre CBS Fender, Spector, Wal etc all being played regularly by people - quite a few of these are regular contributors here on BC as well. Of course they are in the minority of the total number of bass players out there on the pub circuit but they are definitely playing them on a regular basis. In fact in the past week or so I've seen Wal, F Bass, Wood & Tronics, Ritter, Brubaker and a pair of Foderas (plus others) being bought by regular players. Ages ranged from 15-50 and they were from all sorts of backgrounds including everything from still being at school to full time pro musicians. Not a single one came the mythical middle class, more money than sense bracket. I only help out 1-2 days a week in a bass retailer but I never see these people that others seem to think are quietly mopping up the entire stock of high end basses in the country. We have had a whole one customer who owned a Porsche but he's worked his socks off his entire working life and is bloody good at what he does. I don't begrudge him his success in any way and don't understand the attitude we so often see in this country that belittles people who've been successful in their career. He also just happens to be in a regular gigging pub band and loves playing his, expensive, basses. He knows they all lose him money but he most certainly isn't buying them as an investment!