molan

As some of you may know, I help out from time to time in a bass store and we see lots and lots of basses coming in all sorts of packaging and with a huge variance in quality of gig bag and hard cases. However, the single common factor amongst all of them is that not one has ever arrived with any damage I hear horror stories from time to time but we've never experienced a single shipping issue because of poor packing. Admittedly we tend to operate at the higher end of the market but we've also bought in quite a few instruments at cheaper price points. There's a real variance in what people are looking for in terms of cases and gig bags. Some are really pleased with a decent fitted hard case whilst others (generally those who gig a lot) take one look at a hard case and say it'll go straight in the loft and that they'll be using a high end gig bag instead. Meanwhile others see something in a great gig bag and express disappointment because there wasn't a hard case included in the price We can sometimes swap things around but a lot of stuff is branded and/or unique to the manufacturer so it's often difficult. A quick summary of what we get and people's reactions are: Fodera - all new basses over £4K - teardrop Fodera branded hard case - people like the unique case but don't often use them. Ritter - also £4K+ - G&G type hard case without brand logo (as used by Fender for CS and Vintage models) - generally like and more likely to be used as regular transport Alleva Coppolo - again over £4K - usually come in a top quality Protec Contego gig bag - everyone likes these but some people wish they were bespoke models and branded. Now and then people wish they had a typical Fender style hard case. Laurus - circa £4K - slightly odd shaped bespoke gig bag designed to really fit the bass well - everyone does a double take when they first see the case but appreciate that it's a good piece of design to fit the instrument F Bass - circa £2.5K and up - bespoke branded gig bag - generally liked but not as strong or versatile as Protec or a Mono - generally well liked Fender Custom Shop - start at £2K but can rise rapidly - Fender branded G&G type classic hard case, sometimes with colour options like tweed or brown, usually nice bright plush lining - people like these, especially the tweed and brown options and they fit the CS brand really well. Another one for the loft storage though - sometimes because the case is seen as an investment in the future value if they come to sell the bass Wood & Tronics - around £2K - Fairly basic Warwick Rockbag soft/hard case (like a Sadowsky) - people ask why the case has a Warwick logo but usually like them, some comments about the fact that they are the cheapest of this type of design Carvin - starting at around £1K and up to £2K - Carvin branded Fender type hard case - with this brand everyone seems really impressed that they come with a nice hard case. possibly because the basses are perceived to be a 'value' brand and people assume they will only get a gig bag. Godin - around £800 - bespoke branded gig bag, not heavy protection but obviously unique because of design/colour - most people expect to get something like this on a sub £1K bass. Never really hear negative or positive comments, just basic acceptance. Obviously we get all sorts of used and PX instruments in as well but way too many to try and list out what they all come with! Happy to give a view on any (and more depth on any of the above) if anyone wants to know anything

[quote name='Oldman' timestamp='1375854148' post='2166412'] Yep, thats sounds like it, did a similar exercise when first saw the Bona, acquired an ex works price list, twiggy margins, a minimum order stocking plan. It is lovely kit, I am contemplating buying a 4 Ohm XS110 so I can have a three cab rig, dont tell Mrs Blondie [/quote] My replies dried up when I queried pricing structure vs, quality made in USA, competition

Did some investigating on this, checked prices, distribution options etc but they just stopped replying. Maybe they don't really want a UK outlet

Saw him with Stanley Clarke, Anita Baker and with his own band. Always such an exuberant performer and full of fun - one of the funkiest keys men ever! http://youtu.be/CT2ZBoWtNes

Interesting comparison I've heard previously someone who personally loved the sound he was hearing onstage from his Sadowsky but his sound man said his vintage Fender sounded much nicer out front. In that particular case it was possibly that the Sad was brighter and cutting through more on stage but maybe too bright and 'modern' when taken as part of the overall band mix.

Some of these are great: http://www.redbubble.com/people/thebeatter/works/8469444-amp-bass?p=iphone-case&ref=shop_grid&type=iphone5_deflector

Thomastik and La Bella often have gauges and scales other people don't. I just tracked down some Mustang specific and Shergold 6 medium scale strings for someone. Both were special order but got them in about 10 days

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1375119487' post='2156944'] I went into a large guitar shop in a major northern british city and tried out about 10 different jazz basses. One of them had such a bad bow in the neck I felt I needed to tell the staff as I was leaving - like major bow, checking the fretboard is still attatched level. Anyway he rolled his eyes and told me that the shop is nicely heated when open - but cools down a lot at night. The fluxuations in temprature being so great they apparently had the frets lifting on a load of custome shop guitars..... beggers belief why he told me that! [/quote] We try to keep temps as constant as possible but it's a tricky business. Loosely speaking we use minimal heat, and from small portable rads only, in the winter and just airflow without air-con in the summer. This kinda works but things still move around. It's usually spring and autumn when things are most noticeable though.

[quote name='jonno1981' timestamp='1375305899' post='2159651'] Was the the MIM with the new pickups in it? That was a very decent bass! [/quote] I think it was actually a different MM. This one had Barts in it. Both are really nice. When you get a good MM it often only needs a simple pickup upgrade to make a world of difference It's always great to get feedback from people! We really enjoy meeting new bass players and having a good natter.

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1375192257' post='2157913'] Dealing with the public is always tough whatever you sell I thought that the instrument manufacturers supplied guitars with a useable standard setup out of the box. If I bought a new Fender from a "box shifter" would it be totally unplayable without a few hours with a guitar tech? How do you see your shop competing with the large "internet box shifters" in the coming years? Most of us pay a high premium using local shops, is it worth it? I'm not trying to antagonise you, its a serious question [/quote] In general terms you shouldn't find anything that's unplayable out of the box. However, it depends very much on where it's come from and how it was set up in the first place. One of our suppliers sets everything up to a pretty low action and then ships from USA. Their, very strong, recommendation is that we take each bass out of the box and leave it at showroom temperature for 24 hours in its case. Then we open the case and, in god old Spinal Tap fashion, do not touch it or go near it for another 24 hours.. By then it should have started to acclimatise to local temperatures. Of course, this may all be a bit over the top! We've discovered that most truss rods need some minor adjustment if a brand new instrument has been on a plane. The necks often straighten up and actions become very buzzy. After a few weeks they'll start to settle again and need another minor adjustment. I'd say if you're comfortable with basic bridge height and truss rod adjustment you'd be OK trying something from an warehouse type dealer. The bigger issue might be that you just get a 'duff' one. We don't sell 'out of the box' Fenders (Custom Shop only) but we do get a lot of used, nearly new, ones and sound quality definitely varies from bass to bass. Our little place is quite 'bespoke' and we don't really get into price matching battles with online retailers. In fact we currently seem to be cheaper than Thomann on some ranges as they've been slowly raising their prices since DV247 went under/into new ownership. It feels like the pure price platform models may not be working as well as they were. However, this may not be the case with mass brands like Fender. There will always be people who want the lowest price and are happy to forego customer service but there will also be people who are happy to pay a bit more for a personal service and simple stuff like a fast returns policy, quick response to questions & problems, local luthier repairs and setups etc. If you'd have asked me 3 years ago I think i would have been more worried but there seems to have been a bit of a shift back towards higher service option retailers in some specialist areas. I don't think this is true of real high volume mass produced items like electronics but certainly it seems that people want to pick up and play the actual instrument they want to buy rather than risk a bland suck it and see policy. . .

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1375133595' post='2157193'] That's a level of attention to detail I've yet to encounter, good on ya. [/quote] To be honest it was Alex at The Gallery that first did this for me and I've always remembered it

For me the 'great bass line' can transform the song from being lame to something really quite good. Both One That I Want and Fame are perfect examples. If ever I hear the former it always puts a smile on my face (and not just because I'm thinking about Olivia in skin-tight latex!) and Fame was always on the turntable at my 'lads' flat before we went out on a Saturday night when it first came out Edit - Just realised this isn't true when it comes to Level 42. Awful songs and, purely in my personal view, horrible bass lines. Technically clever but they don't rescue the dire music

Of all the current crop of new Fenders I think the American Vintage series might hold up well. They've opened up at higher prices than the previous reissue models but I think this is understandable given some of the changes (and a new series will always start off high). Fender claim they are genuinely more expensive to make and there's a quality jump from the Standard series. There's a chance that this might mean they won't keep them in production for a really long time unless they sell well. Choosing a model with the best of the new features ought to help as well. The matching headstock J's are my favourites

The BassGear one literally sold on Monday My favourite ever Bag End cab is the 2x12, sounds amazing with a big powerful head. Bit heavy but sounds wonderful. I used to gig a 1x15 and 1x10 together. Worked really well and looked cool as well

Looks like a lot of fun Jake! What are you working on?

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1375093623' post='2156529'] I think the worst thing a shop can do is put you through some little practice amp when you're trying out an instrument. Surely you want it to sound as good as it can when the prospective customer is making up his or her mind? Case in point - was in Glasgow a couple of weeks back. Tried a bass in one shop and was put through an Orange crush combo which was buried behind another amp (?). Tried a bass in another shop and was put through a Mark Bass combo. From which shop do you think I bought the bass? Not the first time a shop has lost a sale from me because they made the bass I am trying sound merely functional. I try not to take it personally either, but there's a degree of feeling like I'm not being taken seriously in all this. [/quote] Our standard first question is to ask the customer what he usually uses and then try and find the closest thing from our stock. It's not always easy to match up but we always try to get as close as possible. If someone calls in advance we'd probably recommend bringing their own amp along (unless it's a monster!).

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1375086573' post='2156409'] Thats the downside of a music shop. Bread goes stale, fruit rots, meat goes off. How many customers a day demo instruments? How long does it take to check tuning? Nobody expects every instrument to be perfectly in tune at a moments notice, but preparing for a customer demo is the most important thing you do, surely! The only way small shops are going to compete with the large "box shifters" is on personal service [/quote] It depends if a customer has come to try something specific or just wants to browse a large range of instruments. I was in one day when someone quite literally tried every single instrument in the showroom and at least four different amp and cab combinations. This wasn't a problem (and he spent over £4,000 at the end - ironically on the thing he tried first!) but it's hard to allow for someone wanting to try the entire stock. The place I help out at goes through the entire stock about 4 times a year to check on set up - that's basic tuning, truss rod adjustment, intonation, electronics testing etc. There's always random checking as well, especially for movement in the neck - some brands never budge and others move around a bit if there's significant climate change. Between the three of us in the shop we probably play every bass at least once every couple of weeks. Even with this we often find a random instrument will have gone significantly out of tune or the neck has moved an the action is too low/high. Strings sometimes deteriorate with hardly any use whilst others are fine for ages. Because these things aren't uniform it's tough to always have every instrument just perfect all the time Of course, then there's the issue of exactly what constitutes 'perfect' - one person's low action can be another's unplayable buzzy horror. We used to try and set everything as low as it would go but have found a lot of people want to dig in more and prefer higher actions. Then we raised a lot of basses and someone proclaimed (publicly on this very forum) that the particular, very expensive, brand he tried weren't all they were made out to be because the action on the one he tried was too high. He didn't ask us to lower it for him, just tried it briefly and then basically slagged the brand off I guess it's a case of 'some you win, some you lose'

In this weather it's near impossible to keep an entire showroom's worth of stock in tune, with perfect action and with great intonation. Believe me, I've tried!

I am only going to reply to this thread when Marcus keeps a bass, or does not express an intense desire for a new one, for three months. . .

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1375048420' post='2156229'] To me it's East River Drive that sounds dated. Like bad film soundtrack stuff IMO. Can't listen to it anymore; didn't like it much when it came out. I'd file it with much of MM's output. I saw Stan with Hiromi at Ronnie Scott's and it was one of the best gigs I've ever seen. His upright playing was, IMO, fantastic. He did play a bit of Alembic too though. [/quote] That's the great thing about music - we all like different stuff For me this is one of his greatest ever songs & there's sod all flashy bass playing on it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT7ZM6HLfig

I never tire of watching this Vid

Yep - seen this before on an MM. Finish lifting and cracking like exterior paint on a windowsill that hasn't been treated for years. Almost like something has burst its way out of the wood and pushed up through the finish Randomly running both vertically and horizontally on the same bass as well. Never seen anything as bad on any other bass ever (and I've seen a lot!).

I think this is one if those 'damned if you do - damned if you don't' situations Don't disassemble and people will complain that you're too lazy / incompetent and the instrument you're selling probably isn't the real thing. Take it apart and someone else will say you've spoilt the build 'integrity' of a vintage instrument that hasn't been taken apart for 30 years. There are far more of the former than the latter though so many people will have to show pics of stuff like neck stamps and undersides of pickups in order to sell.