Dingus

[quote name='Prunesquallor' timestamp='1355127629' post='1894276'] There was more to it than the necks, I think. Here's what he had to say after the recording of One Hot Minute: "[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=2][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=2][size=1][size=2][size=3][size=2]The Alembic isn't as in-my-face as the Music Man, but the high notes are as loud as the low ones, from the bottom of the neck to the top, which is a problem on the Music Man. I probably could have used the StingRay for the entire album, but [b]when we go to record, I always think I need the best bass for recording[/b].[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/font][/size][/font]" [My bold] In other words, he likes the tone of the Stingray, but thinks the instrument isn't up to spec for recording, whereas the Alembic was. The Modulus was probably better FOR HIM in that respect as well (and Spectors, and Wals...) As for Fenders vs Stingrays, he's using vintage Fenders in the studio now. YMMV [/quote] He was using different basses for recording even while he was using the Stingray as his main bass , first a Spector in the late 1980s , and then most of Blood Sugar Sex Magic is played on a Wal . Not long after that he abandoned Stingrays altogether .

Thin Lizzy were undoubtedly one of the greatest bands ever to come out of the British Isles in my opinion . I'm not surprised that people still turn out in droves to see them live , especially in Liverpool . It has always been a city with very close links to the Emerald Isle .

[quote name='ianhowardbass' timestamp='1355077010' post='1893748'] Gotta say that the build of Musicman is so much better than Fender. I've got an SR5 and 2 American Fender basses, and the Stingray is amazing. [/quote] Whereas EBMM basses are very well made , I would say that the current American Fenders actually have certain construction advantages over EBMM basses . EBMM basses are meticulously made but i with relatively basic construction methods . As I have pointed out in a previous thread about EBMM , they have flatsawn necks with no graphite reinforcement . That is why they can sell them at a price below boutique basses despite sharing many of the features and having similar playability . American Standard Fenders have graphite neck reinforcement , as do some other models , and the Custom Shop basses are quartersawn . What's more , I have played and own(ed) some very nicely made Fender basses , easily comparable to EBMM quality . I know you will all clamour to tell me how stable the necks on your EBMM basses are , but the potential problems are likely to show up a few years down the line . Try taking one on tour across America or Europe in the middle of winter and , trust me , it's a very different story . I once read on here someone talking about Flea falling out with EBMM over their refusal to give him a signature model and so he stopped using Stingrays . I know for a fact this isn't true . The truth is that he stopped using Stingrays because the necks kept shifting so much that he got fed up with them and looked for something a bit more stable , settling on the Modulus with its graphite neck . As ever , you get what you pay for and EBMM are a lot of bass for the money , but they are not the last word in quality construction .

Some hifi shops have got record cleaning machines and you can take your vinyl discs in and pay to have them cleaned .

[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1355076308' post='1893730'] As has been pointed out, cd (and definitely higher resolution digital formats) is technically superior to vinyl. However, I find that when played side-by-side, folks still prefer the sound of vinyl. For me, the sound of a record is more musical, somehow, than a cd. And for the record (!) I have a Clearaudio Reference TT, and Advantage cdp. Perhaps it's the valve phomostage? [/quote] That is some nice equipment !

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1355073292' post='1893667'] cos she was a looker or cos you wanted cheaper cheese? [/quote] She was a looker , and I was too smitten to think about possible discounts .

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1355074622' post='1893694'] I saw a gadget show, last year I think, where they set up a blind listening test using an allegedly top end HiFi listen to Floyds dark side using vinyl, CD and 320kbps mp3, the mp3 won. [/quote] This lack of an apparent gulf in sound quality is what a lot a lot of manufacturers are nervously beginning to realise . Quite a few esoteric hifi amps nowadays have a little input jack on the front so you can plug in your portable MP3 player ect. and play the music on it through your hifi . The resulting sound is often surprisingly good , awakening more and more people to the potential of far cheaper and supposedly inferior digital music devices in a hifi audio system . I do most of my listening from music on my P.C via an inexpensive DAC/ headphone amp to an decent hifi amp and speakers with proper cables ect and the sound quality is very acceptable and very close to my CD player , which admittedly I have had 15 years and is not the last word in up -to-date technology but I keep it because it still sounds good to me compared to many newer players , and it has become a bit of a classic .

CD s days are beginning to look numbered anyway . A few of the most significant hifi manufacturers such as Linn and AVI have stopped making CD players a long time ago now and are concentrating on MP3- based playback systems as that is going to be the way of the future . The next big format development will have to be a leap forward in the quality of broadband-based audio playback , because that is increasingly how people are buying and listening to their music .

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1355073055' post='1893658'] Ah, you remember the discussions about my speakers [/quote] I still have to keep looking how to spell it !

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1355072547' post='1893650'] Or would no one be interested in them at all like lots of other small production run stuff? Ebmm keeping the legend alive keeps people like me gassing for the earlier ones [/quote] I was playing the bass when original Music Man were still in business and they were always highly regarded and sought after basses by pros and enthusiasts alike . Stingrays never go in or out of fashion , they just are . Music Man would still be prized American guitars , not least of all because of the Leo Fender association .

As Mr Micawber so rightly pointed out , expenditure rises to match income . Different folks have very different ideas of what their financial priorities are and what constitutes disposable income . You can have two people on the same income and one thinks it is their human right to have two holidays a year , whereas the other thinks that Salad Cream is a luxury item . When I left school I had three ambitions ; to buy a Wal bass , to save up a thousand quid and to get my hands on the girl who worked behind the cheese counter at the local supermarket . At least I achieved two of those goals , and if I still had the Wal it would be worth a fortune , the grand would be worth a fraction of what it was then and the girl from the cheese counter is probably well past her sell-by date by now . I think the lesson in all that is that the right bass is a better investment than it might seem , or something along those lines ,I'm not quite sure , but anyway...

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1355064216' post='1893525'] Well it's a mainstream brand so they probably assumed their own kit; but it's 65 or 75 watts a side (I forget which) and bi-wirable, so not cheap. By a lucky coincidence for me it was reviewed by many as being a classic in it's own right for it's clarity & ability, very well regarded at the time. It's the Pioneer A-400X. Now I see it as the weakest link in the system being very slightly bright but I'm in no hurry, it's not easy to find an amp of comparable quality that has across the board approval, which I don't count as an essential but it helps to narrow down the field, the Arcam's are always great, some say the matching power amp is essential some don't. I like the look of the Kandy range but I'm wary of any company that keeps bringing out upgraded versions in quick succesion. [/quote] I would be reluctant to trade in a Pioneer A400x on any of those amps you mention Stu . It's a true classic that sounds pretty dynamic and has got a lot of strenghths that many more expensive or newer amps struggle to match . They were always fairly forthright sounding , but that made them exciting in the right system . I would think you would have to spend upwards of a grand to get an amp that was so significantly better that it was worth spending the money .

The whole contentious question of what sounds better depends on what CD-based system versus which vinyl - based system . If your talking about in ultimate -or even modest- hifi terms , both formats are capable of superb results ( and bloody awful ones too if you get it wrong ) but it depends on the synergy of the components as much as the ultimate limitations of the actual format . BRX is right that vinyl was / is a finnicky format prone to all kinds of error and inherently fragile . Its also an expensive way to listen to high fidelity music as quality turntables have to be extremly accurate pieces of precision engineering , and that never comes cheap , plus turntables need maintainance and accurate adjustment to keep working at an optimum level . Put simply , it's a lot of pissing about to do it properly . CD is a lot more convenient but can be slightly harder to get musically pleasing results . My favourite way to listen to vinyl is on someone elses very expensive system . Vinyl is much harder to spell than C.D too! The O.P would also find that if he were to audition a few newer C.D players in his existing system that he would be able to find one that sounded fairly organic like his turntable without having to turn down the treble on his amp .

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1355047317' post='1893219'] The only argument with the supply and demand idea is that because more people wanted them in the first place than other brands then as long as that trend continues thenough they will stay popular gas items used too, that's why there are even more fenders which must be over saturated in the market place ten times over compared to rays but as they are probably on most people's wanted list from their first bass lesson it levels out. Gibson basses to me appear less desirable by and large and although there are less of them available there are less folk with their wallets out for them too which keeps the values down. Supply and demand again I guess so it really depends just like we said about sandberg who is in the limelight over the next few years. [/quote] The enduring appeal of Musicman Stingrays is undeniable , but it has always been a sought after model and the prices are still relatively low on the whole because it's easy to get a new one or a used one , whatever you fancy . If Stingrays had their legendary reputation but were hard to find items made in small numbers and scarcely available then they would rocket in price . Imagine if EBMM hadn't bought the Music Man patent and all production had ceased in 1983 . The original MM basses would be even more valuable than they are now .

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1355055105' post='1893339'] The other point to note is that most bassists in the UK probably don't spend much time on here, if at all. We are, in my mind, in a bit of a bubble when it comes to trends and prices. I don't refer to eBay prices because eBay is a joke with everything! [/quote] That is why I say it is always important to find the right buyer . I would always refer back to my previously stated maxim that things are worth what you can get for them , and if you can get more rather than less then good luck to you ! Like I say , I am all for folks getting as much as they can - as the saying goes , a fair exchange is no robbery . Things do tend to sell for more " realistic " prices on Basschat than some other places , but a lot of folks are selling stuff that they themselves have bought used and so aren't losing that much . Another important factor to consider is how quickly you need to shift the bass you are selling . If you needed the money quickly you are far more likely to have to compromise on the asking price . I have no vested interest in any of this , and much like yourself , for one reason or another , nowadays I only buy new equipment , and have done for a long time now . I am only likely to be affected when selling stuff , and would be subject to the same market forces as yourself . But the question remains , if you were trying to get more than you would get on Basschat for a Stingray , where would you look to get it and how likey are you to get what you want ?

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1355014546' post='1893078'] so a bit off topic.... Nothing at all to do with JD the UK fella. Not so much a signature model but designed for him way back. How it differs depends which era of regular warwick thumb you are talking about! Quoted from the Unofficial History of Warwick Bass (Novello, Huygen) PDF Note in the comparisons to the streamer they are refering to a wenge neck/cherry body streamer (stage one) [/quote] I am actually old enough to remember these early Warwick basses arriving in the U.K via the Bass Centre , who were their U.K distributor . Barry Moorhouse ( who owned The Bass Centre ) really helped Warwick establish themselves as a brand by using the shop and his contacts to introduce Warwick basses to the pro players who frequented it . I've got a soft spot for Warwick basses despite never having owned one , and the Thumb sounds and looks amazing , but has never felt particulaly comfortable to me . In fact , it has always felt distinctly uncomfortable - heavy and poorly balanced with a long reach to the lowest frets - so my bit of advice would be to make sure you try it on a strap before you committ yourself . I always find going back to a Fender a breath of fresh air when it comes to ergonomics .

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1355010347' post='1893036'] Well now a normal Stingray H is £1400+ new, it will change the market over the next 5 years or so. [/quote] There are two reasons why this is not neccesarily going to be the case . Firstly , the second hand price isn't primarily dictated by the new retail price , rather it is dictated by the availabilty of other basses on the secondhand market . It is that factor that is already pulling down the price of secondhand Stingrays , and there is no tangible reason why it will change in the next five years any more than it has changed in the last five years . Indeed , in the last five years the prices seem to have fallen if anything , going by what people on here say . There is no reason why the secondhand prices will start to significantly rise because the retail price has reached a certain level . Supply continues to dilute the marketplace regardless . The other factor to consider is that in five years the actual value of any fee you get for a bass will be diminished by inflation . Put simply , if you get £900 for a Stingray in few years from now what that £900 will buy you will only be the same or less as what the £ 700 or so you could get for it now will buy you . Especially if you are planning to use the money to buy another bass , you will find that other goods have risen in price proportionately , or more so . I know you keep your stuff mint , so that can make a significant difference in the right circumstances , and as with every sale , finding the right buyer can make all the difference . Don't get me wrong , I am all for people getting as much as they can for whatever they are selling - that's what I do - and your EBMM collection will always be worth decent money and you will always be able to find a buyer for them , but getting back what you paid for them or close to that might be a difficult ask . You still wouldn't be losing much in the scheme of things , though , so it's not all bad news .

He seems to hold his basses at a very unusual angle . Wicked player though , and seems like a nice guy in interviews .

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1354993429' post='1892822'] You have to admit that was a little gem. [/quote] Acknowledged with second face palm and groan . Have you ever thought about starting a career as a comedy greengrocer ?

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1354992380' post='1892799'] sorry a Warwick "JD Thumb" bass- they were originally named after some american player called John D-something-or-another [/quote] Now I'm confused . I think JD ( Bimingham U.K luthier) did make at least one Basschatter a Thumb Bass style bass , but I have never heard of any Warwick Thumb signature model except Jack Bruce's . Do you know what the difference between this JD Thumb and a regular Warwick Thumb are ? Are they useful to you or is it desirable just for rarity value ?

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1354993039' post='1892815'] It's just the tip of the iceberg. [/quote] Palm meeting face right now .

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1354992856' post='1892809'] I suspect you are right. I suppose technically I didn't buy it, I was given it. [/quote] Property is theft . But then again , so is theft .

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1354992320' post='1892798'] How odd. I have actually just bought some lettuce. When I got to the cashier there was no bar code, she couldn't find it in her list either and gave it to me for free. Life is weird. [/quote] This is exactly how the end of Capitalism will come about .

[quote name='YouMa' timestamp='1354991987' post='1892787'] I quite like them but i just find something missing in the music. [/quote] 95 % is water , that's why .

Crisp !