Dingus

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1354990511' post='1892752'] agreed I prob wouldn't get as much as I might hope for it. And yeah would probably miss it- the thing I didn't put in the OP was that the thumb in question is a JD thumb so not as common as a normal one- though not as uncommon as a 1st ed JV squier [/quote] You could , when your finances allow , get JD to make you a Thumb to your dream spec . He is a fantastic builder and a wonderful bloke too , and considering the superb quality of his work , very reasonably priced . A Precision Bass is a pretty essential tool for any bass player in my book , and a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush , as the saying goes . This bass is a good 'un , whereas the Thumb represents a gamble . Ideally ( stating the obvious ) you would add to your existing basses rather than trade one for the new addition . Hold your fire a bit and you could still do that in the not- too -distant future .

[quote name='apa' timestamp='1354990019' post='1892743'] She was ok with it once I explained it was said in a post ironic way Cheers Bass Tractor Heres an early shot with some of my girls including that present one Sorry foir hijacking your birthday thread Barney. We'll see you round yours on Monday A [/quote] Nice rug .

[quote name='jaydentaku' timestamp='1354662781' post='1888990'] Thank you for the offer, but I am 297 miles away and it would take me exactly 99 hours to walk home afterwards, assuming I was sober and didn't stop. Happy Birthday to you though and bless google maps for its useless facts. [/quote] Just follow the leylines and you'll be home in no time . By the time you get to Middlesborough I expect you'll be ready for a kebab , though .

Good basses that you like / love are not that easily come by , and if you like your P Bass then I would keep hold of it and make picking up a Thumb a long term project . There are loads of them about and you might see a bargain if you wait long enough. You will almost certainly miss your JV Squier , and you might not be able to sell it for as much as you might hope to in the current depressed market .

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1354980891' post='1892595'] Well he could've avoided that couldn't he. This is what you get when you publish videos of yourself showing off online - you're going to get thousands of people who know you're nothing special publicly discussing how not special you are. The difference in our opinions is that you blame everybody else on the internet for it and I blame him. When I was 20 I joined a band that played original funk tunes and spent a couple of years touring and that was my full-time job. I was playing the same sort of material he plays except our music was all original and I did a better job of it than he does. I agree with you if the standard of playing on Youtube is anything to go by I would have no problem making a career out of it, but I wouldn't enjoy it. [/quote] [quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1354980891' post='1892595'] Well he could've avoided that couldn't he. This is what you get when you publish videos of yourself showing off online - you're going to get thousands of people who know you're nothing special publicly discussing how not special you are. The difference in our opinions is that you blame everybody else on the internet for it and I blame him. When I was 20 I joined a band that played original funk tunes and spent a couple of years touring and that was my full-time job. I was playing the same sort of material he plays except our music was all original and I did a better job of it than he does. I agree with you if the standard of playing on Youtube is anything to go by I would have no problem making a career out of it, but I wouldn't enjoy it. [/quote] "He " is not the one who is at fault in certain respects . The greater error is on the part of those who read such significance into one playalong on Youtube and might use it as vindication of their own selves . When you say I am blaming everybody else on the internet you are being far too general in your assessment ; blame belongs only to those who are responsible . I am glad to hear that you have found a profession that satisfies you more than playing the bass did and that you are , apparently , thankful to have avoided being drawn into the morass of poor bass playing on Youtube and it's corrupting influence . This guy might not be great , but he's not terrible either , and he's certainly not the whipping boy for bad bass playing on Youtube . Try watching a few of his ( many ) other playalongs and you might see him in a different light .

Quite simply one of the best live albums of all time , and some sublime bass playing throughout . It's nice to see Donny Hathaway getting some of the recognition he deserves as an artist at last ; his profile was diminished somewhat in the years after his sad demise but seems to have been revived in recent times .

[quote name='Pete Academy' timestamp='1354912809' post='1892057'] I don't like it. He doesn't make the song breathe. [/quote] [quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1354913573' post='1892070'] couldnt have said it better my self.. [/quote] [quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1354920848' post='1892143'] He published it. It's not like we rooted through his personal storage and found videos of him playing along to disco tunes - he actually wanted us to see him doing it. It's not like anyone's completely slated the guy anyway, but for the record I don't rate him at all, or his band. [/quote] I am equally aware as any of you as to what the shortcomings are in this chaps playing in absolute terms in this clip , but what I think is wrong is that people have singled out one Youtube playalong video and made it totemic of bad taste and over-elaborate self indulgent bass playing . His other posted videos show that he is , on balance , a far better player than the Michael Jackson track suggests and, I would venture , far better than a lot of the people who are so free in offering their damning criticisms of his efforts . I posted the video him him playing with a band purely to show that he is a working musician and the demonstrate that , whereas the band might not be the last word in cool ( they are European after all ) , this man can hold it down even when playing in a busy style , and I stand by that assertion . I have seen "name " pro players who produced worse performances , and if people feel justified in slating this chap so mercilessy then I look forward to hearing their own playing and can only wonder why they are not playing for a living , because if you are of so much of a better standard than the playalong man is capable of then you should have no problem making a career . What is wrong is not the flawed playing in the video , rather it is the significance that some people a placing upon it .

[quote name='gafbass02' timestamp='1354905873' post='1891957'] If that was me, and I found this thread, I'd be mortified and really, really upset. I showboat and over play too live sometimes too, audiences sometimes like it or even encourage it!....and I've just joined a funk band, so opportunities to over do it will be rife. I shall be mindful! Just Hope I don't end up like that poor fella being roasted on here! Just sayin' like. I know, I know, 'He shouldn't have put it on YouTube if he didnt want critique' etc etc But just sayin'. ;-) [/quote] My sentiments entirely . The chap is running through some ideas ( as we have all done from time to time ) , not presenting a manifesto for how the bass guitar should be played .

If you are going to expand the debate on what constitutes busy beyond the original Youtube clip then things become more complicated . The recent stylistic trend for the bass guitar is towards simplicity and economy , but that is a stylistic trend just like playing busy was twenty five or thirty years ago . If there was a simple equation that playing with" taste " ( whos taste ? ) and economy equalled good bass guitar playing then most of the significant stylists in every genre on the instrument would have never developed their style . Jamerson , Babbitt .Jack Bruce , John Entwistle , Jaco , Stanley Clarke , Chris Squire , Geddy Lee , Larry Graham and a whole host of other I could go on and name all were /are busy players who had the ability and enough personality to evolve imaginitive styles of playing that were frequently busy but effective and enthralling as a result . It is not enough to sagely say that the bass guitar should play a supportive role . Of course that is one of it's functions and in those circumstances less is more is a good credo , but there are also situations where more is more , and more is what you want . Being sensible has it's limitations , especially in an artistic sense . There is after all , no such thing as a conventional genius , It takes people who are prepared to reject conventional thinking and deviate from established ideas of good taste for innovation to take place .

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1354896306' post='1891778'] A BASIC requirement of any musician. The band are all playing in time, but for me they couldn't sound much more disjointed and independent. I'll be honest and say I thought it was awful, and I agree with TNiT. He is playing four minutes of fills. It all sounds very clever, but all it does is makes me feel anxious and irritable. The only way that would get me dancing is towards the nearest exit. [/quote] I must confess that I wouldn't pay to see the band play , but they are Italian and tastes can vary greatly from one country and one culture to another . I only use this clip to demonstrate that the guy is not just a bedroom player but does in fact put his neck on the line playing live . He is very busy , but he is capable of doing busy . I can remember when how he plays on this example was how every aspiring trendy bass player in Britain with a mullet haircut , a fancy custom bass and a Trace Elliot amp wanted to play , and frequently did . Maybe the guy is like the bass guitar equivalent one of those WW2 Japanese soldiers abandoned on a Pacific atoll who hasn't heard that the war is over .

Will it add to the price ? Give it a try and see ! Personally , I doubt very much whether Marcus Millers signature is so sought after and revered by bass players that they would pay a premium for it ( indeed some folks might not want a bass that Marcus Miller has scribbled on , myself included ) but there is no law against trying your luck and having a go . Try and present the bass in the best possible way i.e polish it up , try to get some good pics and push the sig. as part of an overall package and try and get as much as you can for your bass .

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1354894229' post='1891744'] Sounds like a very average function band to me. I bet they can turn any song into a tiresome funky blues jam. [/quote] An average function band anywhere in mainland Europe sounds much worse than that , trust me . That's why British function bands get work abroad . Anyway , the point isn't the band it's his playing , which in this example is busy but it's tight , in time and in tune , although doubtless someone will be along to dissect his shortcomings shortly . No one is trying to say he is the new Richard Bona , but he is no chump either .

Here's a video of him playing a very busy line in live setting and to my ears he pulls it off in a convincing manner , even if it does sound a bit 1980s ( not neccesarily a bad thing ) : [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI0s2uFERqA[/media] Sounds like a pro to me .

I am slightly reluctant to wade into this debate , but I have watched the video a couple of times and I have to say that I think people are being a little too harsh on this chap . I have seen quite a few of his bass covers on Youtube before now and there is no doubt he a very capable player . Maybe he over elaborates in ( quite a few ) places on this track , but he does present it as his own personal interpretation of the line and maybe he just felt like playing busy that day! I'm sure he is savvy enough to know that it's maybe not the best or most apt version of Bobby Watson's original groove , but I respect him for putting it out there to be criticised . Part of the beauty of doing a playalong is you can take some liberties that you wouldn't if you were playing with a band and preoccupied with holding it down for the sake of the song . I dont think that bass sounds so bad either - it just sounds like the level is slightly to high and causing a bit of distortion . . That's the thing about Fenders -they might sound ugly in isolation but in the track it's the ugliness that gets you heard . So I would say not this fellows best work , but certainly not so bad as to warrant a thread on Talkbass dengirating his playing . If posters on there are rubbishing this guy then lets see them put up a video of themselves playing and then I might respect what they say .

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1354840460' post='1891244'] I was going to actually say that Sandberg basses seem to lose a LOT of money. [/quote] The problem with Sandberg as a brand is that they haven't really got any big name or high -profile muso players using them , and when it comes to bass values , rightly or wrongly , that makes a very real difference . Indeed , who plays what brand you are trying to sell makes a big difference to whether you can sell a bass at all , let alone for what price . I haven't played one yet , but these Sandbergs look very good quality basses from what I have seen , and all it would take is for a star player like Flea / Geddy Lee /Justin Chancellor / him out of Coldplay ( spot the odd one out ) to start playing one to launch them into the big time . It's all about marketing strategy . Very few brands sell well without conspicuous pro player association , and that is something that will always be in the Stingrays favour . People still buy them because Flea used to play them over twenty years ago .

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1354735022' post='1889847'] I'd guess that in 3-5 years the prices might take a turn with both Warwick and Musicman. Basschat also seems to be quite harsh on second hand prices...very low for some items. I've seen people sell Bongo's for very close to what they pay new but that involved using the EBMM forum and dealing with fanatics so they tend to pay close to the value. [/quote] One wonders what might happen if folks from the EBMM forum started looking on Bassschat , where you rightly point out , things can often be had for bargain prices . I've seen Bongo Basses for silly money on this site ( silly cheap , that is ) and the Stingrays we already know about . I would in no way see any of this as a slight on the quality or desirability of EBMM instruments - on the plus side there will always be a certain demand for these basses regardless of whatever trends come and go - but the sheer quantity on the secondhand market will always keep a ceiling on the secondhand price . In the case of the Bongo the fact that it is a design which polarises opinion keeps a lid on used prices . I'm a big fan of them myself , but the wider bass playing public are not on the whole as enthusiastic as they might be .

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1354732041' post='1889783'] expanding on that- things are worth what the market pays yes, but a fair bit of the money spent, esp in the recession is recycled money made from folk selling bass x to buy bass y. But if there is less new money coming into the system the price something will sell for will drop- which in turn will discourage the kinda "try something new sales", if you are going to take a 600 loss on something rather than a 300 that will affect if you are going to sell to feed GAS. Leading to less money being recycled about. Now anyone wanna buy my bass? [/quote] That's true , but you have to add into the equation the impetus that the instinct towards aquisition gives the market . Those people participating in the marketplace have an inclination towards continued spending in the hope of attaining satisfaction and so will find new money to add into circulation . Just like most football clubs are allegedly 3-5 players short of the squad they need to be successful , so are bass players usually one bass purchease away from the contentment which has so far eluded them . Even if the entire economic system of the developed world collapses I am sure that bass players will find a way to keep spending , even if we are reduced to trying to swap a goat for whatever shiny bauble is tormenting us with unsatiated gear lust .

The reality of anything relating to market value is that[i] [u]things are worth what you can get for them [/u][/i], plain and simple . My advice to anyone investing in basses is to always be realistic ( or even pessemistic ) about what you will ever get back for them if you decide to sell them . I am frequently impressed by many peoples unrealistic evaluation of what their equipment is worth on the secondhand market , and have seen many deluded sellers in my time . Not so much on Basschat , where I find most peoples valuation of what they are selling to be very realistic and indeed often a bit too reasonably priced , but in the outside world usually the less knowledgeble a seller is the more they want for things . If you need to realise the value of your investment and cash in then you will be forced to accept harsh reality . If folks are selling Stingrays for £600-700 then you will be hard pressed to get much more for one unless it is something really special , even if it is dead mint . You might get a bit more , but you would be very lucky to get over a grand in any circumstances except maybe for a Classic in unplayed condition . Even the newer two pickup Rays aren't fetching much . I have no vested interest in any of this - I haven't bought a used bass for more than fifteen years when I think about it - but I have bought and sold a great many basses in my time and I must confess I love a good guitar deal more than most things , kind of like a jazz -funk David Dickinson . Better go top up my tan ...

[quote name='Horizontalste' timestamp='1354723361' post='1889607'] I don't think the previous owner was too keen, he had them screwed right into the body miles away from the strings. I set it up my way and almost fell off my chair when I hit the low notes, nice to be heard. [/quote] What surprised me about these recent Super BBs is how un-Fender-like they sound . They really do have a unique tone , not dissimilar to the classic neck -thru BBs of the 70s and early 80s . They have got a great balance of power and subtlety- you could play any style of music on them and it would sound perfect .

[quote name='Horizontalste' timestamp='1354722497' post='1889594'] [attachment=124206:100_1757.JPG] Pickups that bite your head off and a lovely dark rosewood fret board. The neck has a deeper profile than my Bb614 but not as chunky as my Bb300, could become my new no1. [/quote] Beautiful bass ! The chunky neck adds to the chunky sound . Those massive sounding pickups don't hurt , either .

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1354711846' post='1889401'] A factor of the economy I guess - I read about NOS Fender Custom Shop basses being sold at Guitar Centre for less than half price, along with other bargains. This affects all musical instruments. On the run up to Christmas, there are possibly more people wanting to sell secondhand stuff quickly to free up funds. The prices will fluctuate I guess as a result. My son was after a tweed case for his Mexican Telecaster - found a Mexican Strat complete with a tweed case on Ebay for £250 - buying it, keeping the case and selling the Strat on in a gig bag would have been a superb deal - but just goes to show what's out there. 'Back in the day' I tried to sell an Acoustic 371 set up, and eventually had to accept a ridiculously low price for it - OK it was a long time ago and pre Ebay but still galling - how I wish I still had it. The one thing I had people falling over to buy was my pre-EB Stingray at the time, and I guess the same would be true now. [/quote] I've seen loads of EBMM Musiman basses with massive discounts in Guitar Centre in recent years , particulaly the Special Editions / Annivesary models . Guitar Centre have such muscle as a retailer in the USA they can pretty much do what they like , and manufacturers and customers can either like it or lump it . Like retailers everywhere , they have changed their strategy of what kind of stock they keep and how they sell it . They don't sell stuff off cheap because they are desperate , they sell it that price because in the scheme of things that is what works out most profitable , unlikely as that may sound . They turn dead stock back into cash to invest in new stock that will sell better . Guitar Centre are able to negotiate wickedly good prices with their suppliers by virtue of the sheer volume of business they can offer and have the upper hand in that respect .

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1354631857' post='1888393'] No matter what the current prices second hand, id never sell mine for daft prices. My old mint 2000 ish Ray H fetched £870 ish. Best to sell them on the EBMM forum if you want to move one on. [/quote] I wouldn't worry too much about the secondhand prices if I were you . If you compare EBMM basses to a lot of other prestige makes they are relatively inexpensive , and although they may suffer a disproportionately high depreciation from the retail price that depreciation is not a lot of money in the scheme of things compared to a lot of other expensive depreciating assets . If you lose a few hundred quid on a bass you have had years of use out of so what ? This , on the whole , is not a business for investors . If you really want a sound investment in basses you either have to buy vintage ( potentially tricky ) or ( more tricky ) new boutique basses that are esoteric but so desirable that people will want to buy them secondhand for very close to what you have paid for them , or thereabouts . Wal , Fodera , USA Lakland and NYC Sadowsky are good examples of this .

It's a simple case of supply matching ( if not neccesarily outstripping ) demand . A new Stingray purchased and then promptly put up for sale is going to fetch far , far less than the retail price because their are loads of similar basses on the market for sale cheaper , many of which at asking prices that reflect what they cost a few years ago . If you wanted to invest in EBMM basses you would be wisest to buy secondhand or else to buy the rarer more esoteric models that are not saturating the market i.e the Reflex / 25TH Anniversary ect . Even then , the relatively new Big Al hasn't exactly set the world on fire , as is reflected in the relatively modest secondhand prices they can be had for , probably because of the inherent quirkiness of that design . The fact that EBMM quality is so consistant also , ironically enough , counts against the secondhand value of Stingrays in so much as any era of EBMM bass is a good one , so all the secondhand ones on the market are potentially worth owning if they are in decent condition . The market in EBMM basses has always been a double -edged sword in so much as they will always be popular and sought after , but as a result of this they are relatively commonplace and will never command a premium for rarity or novelty value . To return a good secondhand price a bass must have a combination of desirability and exclusivity , and too many EBMM basses fall down on one or both of these criteria .

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1354614199' post='1887952'] Usually with endorsements, wherever you go, the company will provide amps and cabs for you instead of you taking your own. So I imagine they just couldn't source any. [/quote] +1 on this . The biggest benefit for internationally touring musicians with amp endorsements is that the deal will usually provide a touring rig in different territories ie. Europe , USA , Australia ect . It is usually the responsibility of the brand distributor in that country to provide equipment for touring endorsees .

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1354614920' post='1887965'] ....any Prog Rock tribute band is playing 'Regressive Rock'? [/quote] Yes , but regression can be a very positive thing in a theraputic sense . Not so sure about the tribute band thing , but I remember when 15 year old kids in a band jamming in their mum's front room tried to write concept albums . Wouldn't it be great if a whole new generation of kids could embarass themselves the same way .