Dingus

Maybe your anxieties about other things are attaching themselves to your issues with your equipment. You say you suffer with a degree of depression and agraphobia - both of which are not uncommon anxiety conditions- and if your music and equipment are important to you ( as they obviously are) it would be unusual for your wider worries not to impinge on this part of your life in some way . If you aren't excessively worried about the gear getting damaged or stolen then you should ask yourself what is it exactly that you do fear ? What is the worst case scenario that you imagine or anticipate happening ? Is the situation bad enough that you want to do something to change it ? And being agoraphobic doesn't neccesarily impact on a persons ability to get up in front of others and perform . It's more likely to prevent somoene from being able to get out of the house and get to the gig in the first place , but someone who can do that , even if they were agrophobic to some degree , would probably be as capable as the next man of getting on stage and playing so you are not being inconsistant in that respect .

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1352980966' post='1870022'] With Fender, (and with all businesses, especially larger ones like this) its ALWAYS about the money. [/quote] Big +1 on this point . Recent events have proved no business is too big to fail . The people who run Fender know that if General Motors can face going to the wall then there is no reason why the same thing couldn't happen to them , except the American government are not going to bail out Fender at the eleventh hour like they did General Motors . In the current economic climate businesses are doing whatever they have to in order to survive long enough to be around when things eventually get better .

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1353079658' post='1871424'] i had a CS Fender 1970 jazz limited edition, well over £3000 when new, but im sorry to say it was no better than my MIJ 75 non export jazz... when new £2000 cheaper.... the only thing on the custom shop, was it had superior tuners... if i had the cash though ,my god would i go to town...amber flame maple 75 ri, maple with blocks, matching headstock... [/quote] Was your 1970 reissue one like this ? That would be the ultimate Jazz bass for me . It makes me feel a little bit better to know that maybe it wouldn't be that much better than a standard Fender . I suppose the good thing is that if you've got a good Fender , Custom Shop or othewise , you've got a bass worth keeping no matter what other basses you might add to your collection .

One of the most admirable things about Genesis is that they are so unashamedly a product of the English middle- class . They are the musical equivalent of a cup of Earl Grey tea or tennis at Wimbledon . To me all these records are the true sound of suburban Britain in the 1970s , far more so than the glam rock or punk rock that revisionist musical historians on BBC documentaries or in the broadsheet newspapers keep trying to tell us were the important musical movements of that decade . The truth is that Genesis and their ilk played far more of a role in the lives of young people in this country during that decade than anybody seems to want to admit nowadays .

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1353036567' post='1870854'] I'm fairly confident Sterling Ball would be onto this like a rat up a drainpipe...if he knew. [/quote] I am fairly sure that Sterling Ball will have known all about this bass as he is a business associate of Guitar Centre and has visited the Hollywood store where this bass was on display numerous times . I would be surprised if he was unaware that the bass was up for sale , but I suppose that it could have slipped his attention somehow . I agree with you that you would think that if he did know this bass was for sale then it would be nice to keep this slice of MM history with the company , but maybe Sterling has his own priorities .

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1352731843' post='1866633'] How would you describe the tension on these compared to DRs , Pete ? [/quote] To answer my own question , I have just remembered that I have actually got a set of the nickels that someone gave me as a gift on a bass at home . It has taken me the best part of a week to realise that I have got first-hand experience of these strings ( memory lapses like this are surely a sign of middle age ) and just to echo what a lot of others have said , the didn't seem particulaly bright straight out of the box , but the amplified sound is perfectly fine and they seem to have lasted o.k so far and are certainly not dead as a doornail by any means, although I must admit they have only had fairly light use . . I recently heard some recording I had done with them and it sounded fine , with plenty of top end and a good overall prescence in the mix . I would say that these are good strings for people who don't neccesarily want that super bright fresh out of the packet new string sound . Dunlop describe these strings as being low tension , and I would still be very interested in other peoples impressions of the relative tension of these strings compared to DR round core strings such as Hi Beams , Sunbeams , Fatbeams ect , which I personally find to be very elastic feeling and very low tension ( or compliance , as I have learnt from other Basschatters is the more accurate term ) for their given gauge . Do you think these Dunlops fill the gap in terms of tension between a stiffer regular hex core string like D'Addario and a more compliant feeling round core string like DRs ? I would be genuinely intrested to hear what anyone in a position to make a first-hand comparison thinks on this subject .

When I was a child I remember Sixth Form types walking down the road where we lived in Afgan coats , flared trousers and embroidered denim jackets with Geneseis albums tucked under their arms , probably on their way round their friends house to listen to Foxtrot or Selling England ByThe Pound on a music centre ( remember them? ) while drinking cider and smoking roll ups in bedroom smelling of of joss sticks with Led Zeppelin posters on the wall . I bet kids nowadays couldn't make their own entertainment with the same meagre resources - it's all legal highs , ipods and dubstep. They don't have the neccesary attention span to listen to a concept album and will never know the joy of spending an evening arguing with their mates over whether Geddy Lee is a better bass player than Chris Squire . Maybe we could rehabilitate young offenders by making them listen to Tales From Topographic Oceans all the way through . That would teach em!

I can see that having a market , depending on price point, of course . To me it's definitely a rock and pop music players bass , rather than funk/ sould /r&b , but thats purely on looks . I expect it would sound fine for those genres , but this is going to be one for the rockers , in my book .

Why haven't I actually bought one of these yet ? I have toyed with the idea more than once , but keep talking myself out of it . If I had ordered one when I first thought of it , I would have it by now . That's probably what makes me try and think of reasons why I shouldn't order one now and face the regret of not having got off my arse and done it already . I remember now ! I was going to buy the Custom Shop Precision Pro , but couldn't get a straight answer from Fender about if you could adjust the truss rod without taking the neck off ( can't be arsed with any of that ) or any other of my questions about the spec , so I gave up trying . I would be very interested to know how easy the Fender Custom Shop are to work with as a customer , because they seem quite hard to get any kind of direct access to from this side of the Atlantic .

Hi Tom . I am not familiar with the original model of this bass , but given the current trend towards more retro and quirky style instruments I would say that their would probably be intrest in this kind of bass from players in the modern/ alternative rock genre , or what here in the U.K is often referred to as "indie" bands . I like the look of the original with the bifurkated aluminium neck , and I would have to see the new design to give a proper opinion on the updated version . From your description , it sounds like this bass would be a mixture of the modern and traditional and I suppose it's success could depend on striking a balance between those things that appeals to other bass players . It must be exciting having the prospect of a signature model and having some input in the design of the bass . Best of luck with it !

Suppers Ready ! Actually , my tea will be ready soon , but after that I may well give this venerable epic a quick listen ( can you have a quick listen to a 23 minute song ?) . I'll put the subwoofer on now .

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1352929147' post='1869577'] Like most things Leo was involved in, he got it right first time, if it ain't broke...... [/quote] +1 on this point , big style . Leo Fender came up with a series of designs that were almost incomprehensibly brilliant , and were pretty much perfect right from the get- go . No one has bettered any of them to the present day . That's why most people have given up trying . [quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1352939017' post='1869724'] If that were the case then surely the jazz and the stingray need never have existed. [/quote] Leo Fender came up with a series of designs - Precision Bass , Jazz Bass , Stingray , G&L- that were each worthwhile additiond to bass guitar design in their own right . They weren't neccesarilly trying to improve on each other , more that they each added to the palette available to bass players . A Precision won't do what a Jazz does , and vice versa. They were each "right the first time" . [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1352976966' post='1869960'] Nice rare bass there! Seems a fairly decent price for how rare it is. It all depends how genuine it is. I used to have a lovely Natural/maple board Ray, (my first gateway drug to the world of Musicman) and I must admit I do miss it. If it was a variant of something I have already (eg it was a 2 band instead of 3) I would have kept it. IMO, the Stingray is the peak of Leo's designs. The P and J are fantastic, but the Ray really does it for me. [/quote] To me , the Stingray is the most idiosyncratic of Leo Fender's bass designs . It's such a weird bass tone compared to a Fender that you have to salute his single- mindedness in creating such an individualistic sounding instrument , whether by choice or by accident . Probably quite inadvertantly , Leo created a bass with a voice that would be ideally suited to the sound of pop music in the decades to come. About this bass , I am surprised it is for sale on the open market like this ; I would have expected it to be in a bank vault or a museum already . I wouldn't want it myself , but I'm sure it will make some rich fella happy for about ten minutes . On the question of radio knobs , I think they were on the first production run from 1976 , but this being an early prototype could have had whatever knobs Leo had knocking about put on it . Early Stingrays did have white pickup covers too , I have played 76 and 77 'Rays with them on . And the early ones do sound a bit different , too.

To go with my fantasy Jazz Bass I ordered yesterday , I will also have a Precision Bass in Fiesta Red ( not the faded to pink version either , proper Fiesta Red ) with a Brazilian rosewood board ( I used to have a girlfriend with a Brazilian and she was pretty tasty so I expect it would work well on a bass ) , 60s logo , Badass bridge , 60s Vintage pickup and a white scratchplate . Oh, and can you make sure it weighs less than 9 pounds and has got a nice tight neck pocket . And no annoying fretbuzz . And that the trussrod works properly .

[quote name='jezzaboy' timestamp='1264250888' post='722110'] On a sort of similsr vein, who is the guy who plays bass with Robbie Williams? He plays a cracking looking black P bass. Anyone know anything about him? Jez [/quote] I think that is , as Woodster says , Jerry Meehan . He was the bass player on the last series of The Voice , and I too have lusted after that beautiful black Precision Bass . He used to play with Roxy Music too.

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1352896923' post='1868951'] It wouldn't spoil the bass at all - the Big Singles fit as a direct replacement. I already have a Fender Marcus Miller - but I need a 5 string, and the Consat is the only 5 I've ever felt happy playing. If I have to, I'll take the neck off it and have a new body built to suit! [/quote] If they are a direct fit then I suppose you have nothing to lose. Taking the neck off to have a new bass built sounds a bit extreme to me , though !

Wow , this is a good question ! Straight off the bat I would have to say a late 60s / early 70s Jazz Bass in sunburst , rosewood board with blocks and binding and I would have them put a Badass bridge on it , and some really hot pickups like Di Marzios, or some Seymour Duncan Custom Shop creations . No doubt I will be getting back to you later with some more ideas...

Just to stick my two pence worth in , are you absolutely sure you couldn't learn to love the sound of this bass as it is ? A Consat Custom with Delano pickups is a pretty tasty bass in anybodys book , and to me it would be a shame to start butchering it . Basses of that quality are few and far between . You could put the price of the Big Singles towards a used Jazz Bass of some description ( Fender MM? ) to fulfil your Marcus- tone cravings and then have both options .available. I just can't see you ending up with the Jazz Bass sound your after if you go down this route, and you could end up spoiling a very desirable bass in the process.

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1352828585' post='1868057'] Yes, now you're getting my point - there are some tracks with and some without. And if you keep digging you'll find about a 50/50 ish split each way I'd guess, pure guess looking at the spread in the number 1's. And with the rise of hip hop and dance music and EDM/electronica in the last 20 years you may interptret this as a lessening in the amount of bass guitar in pop. These same changes maybe causing people to rely on simpler lines - which are generally better anyway. All of which depends upon what constiutes pop music in your eyes as well of course (lets nto go there). If you go back another 10 years to 1982 the only number one I can see that I would be pretty sure has synth bass is Kraftwerk's The Model. Although Renee and Renata may have had I'm not prepared to subject myself to that song for anything! Re the Whitney track, personally I never got beyond the intro, because I cant stand the over souling vocal style, having just had a listen, yup there is a perfectly standard, reasonable IMO not particularly massive, or immense (that wouldnt fit) bassline on there. Nothing amazing, just good solid playing, but it couldnt be, since its role in the song is pure support, there is absolutely no room anywhere in that arrangement for any fireworks other than the vocal and the solo. It could have easily been a synth part IMO, there is absolutely nothing, at all, to me, that make that bassline have to be played on a bass guitar. [/quote] I think it's the use of the notes on the low B that give it some feeling of depth as a bass part . You are quite right that no one would have blinked an eye if it would have been a synth part on that track , but maybe because Ricky Minor was a long time friend of Whitney's from before she was famous ( as well as being a highly accomplished bass player in his own right , I hasten to add ) that she wanted him to feature on the soundtrack . We both l know why the bass in pop has changed - because pop has changed in exactly the ways you state . Electronica , hip hop and a plethora of dance music proliferates in the mainstream , as well as a more back to basics feel in rock. That state of change is the natural order of things in pop music - It is transient by it's very nature. Staying current is the name of the game . I am pretty sure at least one or two top 40 records from this week in 1982 will have had fretless bass on, for example, because it was a stylistic trend for artists and producers at that time , where as if one of this weeks top 40 has got fretless bass on it then I will eat my own underpants .

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1352828544' post='1868055'] You know Ricky Lawson is a drummer right? I'm guessing that you actually mean Ricky Minor,who is credited on the track. [/quote] Yes , sorry Ricky Minor . I find drinking plenty of alcohol at lunchtime is the best way to get through my afternoon work . Here he is with the aforementioned Ken Smith.

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1352827359' post='1868037'] The point is that no one really cares who played bass on what apart from a select group of people squabbling on an internet forum about whether bass has disappeared from popular music. The average pop music consumer sat in their office during peak hours listening to Fearne Cotton on Radio One simply isn't concerned about the bass part on the record unless it constitutes a part of the track that really relies on a bass hook. 51m0n is right in as much as the bass is just as much (or as little depending on your viewpoint) relied on as 20 years ago, probably 30 years ago, and the complex and intricate bass parts of a record do not necessarily make that record a decent song. You quoted 'Charles & Eddie'... case and point! [/quote] I thought that was a good record at the time ! The question over whether the general public ( whoever that might be ) notices or cares whether there is a good bassline on a record is an entirely different proposition . I have never claimed that bass guitar had more of a populist appeal in times gone by , or that the general public demanded it on pop records any more than now . I am only talking about whether the bass guitar is present on the track or not , not if anybody who isn't a musician could care less about it . In my experience , most / many ordinary punters don't really have much of an idea what a bass guitar sounds like , let alone what it's function in the music is . If you were to start limiting discussion on this forum to things that the non- bass playing general public could care less about then you wouldn't have much anyone could write about .

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1352822652' post='1867904'] Really 20 years ago, 1992, that would be the year of such bass guitar heavy extravaganzas in the top 40 as Ebaneezer Goode by The Shamen, Erasure's Abba-esqu E.P (5 weeks at #1 no less), Whitney Housten's I WIll Always Love YOouuuuuuuuuuuouuouououououououu (dont remember the bass on that at all!) - maybe you are referring to Deeply Dippy by Right Said Fred, no, can't be I dont think there was any real bass on that, or Rhythm Is A Dancer by Snap!? You see I can go on and on (and usually do) but outside of certain subgenres of pop (BritPop style indie) the bass guitar hasnt been the weapon of choice for well over 20 years, more like 30. And even in Britpop it wasnt ever ever used as a featured instrumetn, it was there in a purely supporting role (as some would say a bass should be) and was rarely ever a featured instrument even so far as having an interesting fill or two, it could just as well have been replaced with a different bass instrument, but that wouldnt work with the band image would it.... And complex basslines very very rarely are a feature in pop, oh I grant you they do exist, but they are very very few and far between IME. And the songs aren't always better for them even then.... So no, I still dont think bass guitar is disappearing from pop music, I think its there about as much as it has been in the last twenty years with the odd exception when genres outside of classic pop that show a heavy reliance on that instrument for stylistic or image reasons become unusually popular for a little while. I cant resist (sorry):- [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFJdUJg4wOk[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-d4J3YUQmU[/media] [/quote] I am currently looking over a list of the U.K top 40 singles from early November 1992 and it includes at the very least 23 tracks with proper bass guitar parts on them ( there maybe more as a few of the tracks are so obscure by now that I can't remember anything about them and don't have time right now to have a listen ) , including a few with fairly up -front bass lines such Would I Lie To You by Charles And Eddie [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=B-nSdyHhZeM"]http://www.youtube.c...e&v=B-nSdyHhZeM[/url] Complex bass guitar parts were , on the whole , more common in bygone times although they are not unheard of now in certain genres . And that Whitney Houston Track , while it might not be to everybodies taste , has in fact got a prominent bassline played by Ricky Lawson on his Ken Smith 5 string . How can you cite that as an example of pop music without bass guitar in it ? The bass is massive on that track . Try listening to it .

At the risk of repeating myself , the o.p clearly means is bass guitar disappearing from pop music rather than synth bass or sine wave , in which case I would ask what he means by pop music . I've just listened to some snatches of the current top 40 singles and there isn't a whole lot of bass guitar in there , and what's there is is not featured very prominently, on the whole . If you went back to the top 40 of this week twenty, thirty and fourty years ago you would find far more bass guitar content on those records ( I could even try doing that , if you like . I have got that much time on my hands .) However , popular music is such a nebulous term nowadays that it is far harder to say if the bass guitar has a diminished role in the wider context . There are plenty of records with lots of bass guitar on them , there are plenty that have none. Stylistically there has definitely been a shift towards simplicity , and as a broad generalisation , there is not so much emphasis on being able to play well in mainstream rock and pop music . I watch Jools Holland every week and about 75 % of the bass players look like Polytechnic students with Precision Basses , and that is for the most part what they sound like .

[quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1352743057' post='1866888'] CDs sound good on a cheap hifi but on a great hifi you can hear that it's digital rather than analogue whereas the better the system that vinyl is played on the better it gets. In the 60s though, a Dansette sounded fabulous! IMO of course. [/quote] I remember my Black Sabbath records sounding fabulous on a Dansette in the 70s , but it might have been something to do with the bottles of my dads pale ale I had drunk beforehand ! A high quality vynil based system is a joy to behold , but a well chosen similaly priced CD -source audio system can easily rival it nowadays . Were talking generalisations , of course- it depends on what turntable versus what cd player and what is the synergy of the other componants you put them with , but CD has progressed to the point nowadays where the best players can match the depth, dynamics and overall musicality of high end turntables.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1352742166' post='1866874'] I agree its a LONG journey to find the right 5 string. Luckily, my fingers seem to quite like the 17.5 mm spacing on a Musicman, and since then I've invested heavily in their 5 string basses, (Big Al SSS, Stingray 5 HS, Sterling 5 HS, and a Bongo 5 HH on order). Once you find the right one, stick with it for a food while and get used to it. I'm becoming much better on 5 string basses now. [/quote] Were it not for the aforementioned problems I have withh MM 5s , they would be a very reasonably priced pro quality 5 string with a decent low B and a great sound all round. If the things that bother me don't bother you then to me something like a Stingray 5 is a "why pay more ? " product . I've played much worse fives that cost lots more money .

I am largely with BRX on this one in so much as , where it is a great joy to hear a pristine vinyl record on a good turntable , the convenience and consistancy of CD/ digital is an improvement overall . Plus, you can get most all of the sonic benefits of vinyl with CD , although you do have to spend a few quid to get it. Anyone who has spent hours trying to set the tracking on an expensive turntable cartridge will know the joy of slapping on a CD and forgetting about it. And CD is easier to spell than vinyl , as I have found out trying to type this post!