Dingus

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1352228607' post='1860496'] How acutely do you monitor their movement? As EBS Freak quite rightly states, If you use a medium to high action then you are far less likely to notice any slight shifts in the relief of the neck, wheras if you are using a very low action , small shifts are far more noticable. My experience is that I wouldn't say that EBMM necks are neccesarilly unstable, but they are not notably stable either. On the whole, EBMM offer a lot of bass for the money, but one place where they have saved money on all their designs is neck fabrication. They do not offer graphite reinforcement or quartersawn necks, and so cannot offer the enhanced stability those materials offer on the best basses. It's another case of you get what you pay for, and if EBMM basses had better necks then they would cost more accordingly. All the EBMM necks I have encountered need regular adjustment. [/quote] If I might add as an addendum to this post that I have noticed no difference in stability between my unfinished Reflex bass' neck and the finished neck on a Bongo. They both require occasional attention., but not excessively so. Both of them, however, are far more stable than the heavily laquered pre-EBMM Stingray I used to own many years ago that had a neck that was so badly behaved that I began to suspect that it had ADHD.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1352227648' post='1860477'] I have 5 Musicman necks without lacquer. Only one needed adjustment over the past 2 years. If you have bought one secondhand and it moves a lot, then it could be a number of factors depending on the previous owner. [/quote] How acutely do you monitor their movement? As EBS Freak quite rightly states, If you use a medium to high action then you are far less likely to notice any slight shifts in the relief of the neck, wheras if you are using a very low action , small shifts are far more noticable. My experience is that I wouldn't say that EBMM necks are neccesarilly unstable, but they are not notably stable either. On the whole, EBMM offer a lot of bass for the money, but one place where they have saved money on all their designs is neck fabrication. They do not offer graphite reinforcement or quartersawn necks, and so cannot offer the enhanced stability those materials offer on the best basses. It's another case of you get what you pay for, and if EBMM basses had better necks then they would cost more accordingly. All the EBMM necks I have encountered need regular adjustment.

[quote name='pietruszka' timestamp='1352225518' post='1860446'] I don't think it would offer any protection otherwise the neck would be laquered surely? I would assume the oil is more to condition the neck, to treat it rather than protect it. I could be wrong! I do just play hem after all. Dan [/quote] I think you are right. I don't think an oil finish will seal the neck sufficiently from outside humidity ect. enough to make a difference.

I know that EBMM recommend gun oil for their untreated necks, but how much protection it offers I am sceptical.

Theoretically, unfinished necks are ultimately more susceptible to moisture and changes in humidity ect. Laquering a neck is in effect like encasing it in a layer of plastic and so isolates it from moisture in tha air. In practise , the reality is that some necks and neck designs are inherently more stable than others, for a number of factors. I have had basses with laquered necks that shifted with changes in the weather like a barometer, and I have had unfinished necks that were completly stable. The fabrication of the neck - what kind of wood , if it is quartersawn, whether it has graphite reinforcement- and how well the wood is seasoned all play a major part in inherent stability , in addition to whether it is laquered or not. So yes, being unfinished can have an effect on stability but it is not neccesarily the decisive factor. I wouldn't worry too much about your existing basses- if the vintage Fender has lasted this long and is still o.k then there is no reason why it shouldn't continue and a worn in feel is a big part of these basses attraction. Similaly with the Squire, if it works o.k I wouldn't bother changing anything.

The active socket on your amp is buffered to compensate for the ( usually) higher output from an active bass, particulaly if the e.q is cranked up a bit.

If you want some serious growl ( that word again) with a bit of "hair" on the note, the best I have ever heard is the Hanson/ Lakland Neo Punch pickup. It differs from most others in that it uses neodynium magnets , and it has a unique ( and massive) sound as a result. High output and thrilling sound. The previously-mentioned Seymour Duncan SB1 is also a fantastic sounding pickup.

[quote name='Clarebear68' timestamp='1352210170' post='1860129'] Me too - I even had hair then [/quote] Hair- that was such an 80s thing.

That was Nigel Clutterbuck? Ah, I see now- it's all starting to make sense. My memories of the 80s are a bit hazy nowadays, but come to think of it, I think he was called Nigel. He looked a lot younger in those days, but then again so did I. Decent fellow all round, anyway.

[quote name='Clarebear68' timestamp='1352207380' post='1860054'] That's what I thought when I was told I had to wait that long - I nearly spat out my coffee!!! There must be some sort of status renaissance going on I've always loved the sound of them - I saw Go West live in the 80's (I know - very cheesy ) and the session player they had was playing one and I thought it was the best sounding bass I'd ever heard. Around about the same time I got to borrow a 4 string version with a Walnut body off a the bass player who was in Dare at the time. I didn't want to hand it back lol! It's setting me back just over £1800. [/quote] Wasn't that the lad ( who used to be in Dare) who used to work in the bass department in ABC on Oxford Road? I can't remember his name, but he'd usually be slapping away like a good 'un on one of the basses whenever I went in there. He always seemed like a nice chap, anyway.

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1352073709' post='1858539'] I've spent quite a long time now with my Ritter which is a 33.3" scale. It doesn't immediately feel hugely different to my 34" Fenders or Foderas but after a while playing I find I'm definitely more comfortable on the Ritter. I use to play mosty 35" 5'ers and got on with them fine but fairly convinced that this 33.3" is the best for me. I notice far more of a difference in stretching and hand cramping on a small bodied bass with a headstock strap button that falls closer to the body than a 'regular' bass. [/quote] +1 on this. I'm not fortunate enough to own a 33.3 inch scale Ritter, but it's a scale lenghth that makes a lot more sense for a five string than 35 inches, that's for sure. The wider neck ect. of a five means that 35 inch scale is apt to make it even more unwieldy than it already is. The problem is that so far as I know, it requires the skill of a high quality ( and therefore high cost ) instrument maker such as Ritter of Fodera to make a bass with a low B that sounds good with a shorter scale lenghth. A slightly shorter scale length is nice for a four string , too. Personally, I won't look at any bass with a 35 inch scale, regardless of what it is . The extra tension and bigger stretch make it a pain in the arse I can do without.

Maybe it's intended as some kind of revenge- if bass makers keep selling their own brand strings the La Bella want to turn the tables by making basses.

I find that when I pick up my bass and discover that I am having an off-day the first port of call is to make sure I go through my warm up exercises just to get my fingers limber and my hands used to doing what they should. I have got a selection of patterns that I play up and down the neck that get me loosened up and they don't half make a difference to how soon I can get in "the zone" and start enjoying myself. I find that a 15 minute warm up gets me as loose as two hours playing, so it's well worth the effort , and you can watch t.v while your doing it. I like to think of myself as the bass guitar equivalent of a footballer doing those stretching exercises on the pitch before the match starts. It makes me feel quite professional.

I remember seeing this when it was first broadcast , and I still occasionally wonder what Frank Zappa would make of all kind of things nowadays. A big part of my formative years, and still sorely missed by the World today. On the subject of the Turtles/Flo and Eddie, I seem to remember that they feature heavily on the Live At The Filmore album .

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1351877155' post='1856551'] Some of us still have one though it's the "X" version and very neutral; which is just as well as it has s*d all adjustments on it ..........apart from vol. [/quote] A landmark amp , brilliant design and a true classic in either X or non X form , and well worth holding onto.

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1351873960' post='1856503'] For the cash you'll struggle to beat an old (pre Richer Sounds buy out) pair of TDLs - RTL3 or G30 if you can find them, better yet the Studio1 is a great speaker. If you see a pair of G30s on ebay though, tell me, cos I want them [/quote] Those pre -Richer Sounds TDLs were terriffic speakers, as you rightly say, but the o.ps problem with booming bass in a smallish room would not neccesarilly be helped by the massive bass from the transmission -line design of the particular speakers. I used to have a pair of RTL2s and they were super -deep sounding and a lot of fun , but they need a sparky sounding amp like a Pioneer A400 and a decent size room, preferably with a stone or concrete floor. I always found mine to sound a little bit recessed in the midrange , which made me keep turning them up louder and louder. Those Studio 1s were great speakers though. I went to buy a pair of them when I got my RTL2s, but when I demoed them they needed LOTS of power and , quite surprisingly , didn't go very loud before they started crapping out and distorting, so I bought my RTL 2s as a budget consolation. A used pair of RTL 1s would be a good bet though.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1351873512' post='1856495'] I was in a pit band for Grease once. Found the material very derivative (can't listen to the links above in work). May just be familiarity breeding contempt; YTOTIW was number one for about 12 years when I was a kid. [/quote] I remember that summer of 1978 well and yes, the whole country was sick of that record by September. In retrospect , the most intersting thing about Grease both musically and as a movie in the wider sense is that it's not really about America in the 1950s ; it's much more a reflection of America in the 1970s. Most of the songs on the soundtrack are generic M.O.R 70s pop music with the occasional nod of the head to 50s pastiche. Appropros of all this , may I submit to you my one and only piece of Grease trivia that I do seem to remember from somewhere that Peter Frampton played guitar on the title track sung by Frankie Valli.

[quote name='BassHertz' timestamp='1351868517' post='1856409'] I quite like the sound of those Yamaha jazz pickups. i put a set in an el-cheapo no name Jazz bass the other day and it really brought the bass to life (cliche I know). The bass went from a low output thuddy indistinct crappy sounding bass to somewhat of a tone monster - and now every note on the neck seems to ring out really well. I had to lower the neck pickup on the E-string side as it was quite bass heavy (which is really saying something as I play reggae) LOL . Out of interest, who makes the pickups for Yamahas? [/quote] Yamaha probably make their own pickups. They even own the forests that supply the wood for their instruments, so I doubt they out-source something as fundamental as pickup manufacture.

I've just had a look at an old copy of HiFi World magazine and in the Buying Guide at the back it says that the Eltax Liberty 3+ is " a lot of speaker for the money .Punch and slam in the bass but sometimes thin in the treble." They will probably sound very good, and if they are cheap might also be worth a punt. According to this magazine from 1998 they retailed at £150.

I have read that it was Max Bennet . I have also read it was David Hungate . If it was indeed Max Bennet then he has gone up in my estimation because I never liked his playing on all those Joni Mitchell albums in the early 70s with that scratchy sound of flatwounds with too much treble . My apologies for getting it wrong , anyhow . I still rate this bassline highly, and hope some Basschatters will enjoy driving their family / neighbours mad with this tonight: http://playbassnow.com/song-tutorials/how-to-play-youre-the-one-that-i-want-david-hungategrease/

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1351815497' post='1855900'] just seen some second hand KEF C20, does anybody know anything about them? [/quote] That was a decent small speaker from the mid to late 1980s. They were designed to be positioned close to a rear wall to reinforce their bass response, and so they are better suited to a smaller room. I've never heard them myself , but by reputation they were a good speaker of their day and well regarded at the time. If they are really cheap and in good condition they might be worth a try , but if you are in the market for a used compact speaker like that it's worth considering that the market for affordable high quality smaller speakers really took off in the early 1990s as manufacturers realised that this is where most of their potential sales were, and some models from a bit later than these Kef C20s will sound markedly better. Some speakers that retailed at around the £120 to £150 in the early to mid 1990s sounded amazing for their size and can be had for a steal nowadays if you keep an eye out for the right model. My own personal preference is for Mission speakers.. The first proper speakers I got was a pair of 760is ( just seen these on ebay [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MISSION-760i-SPEAKERS-PAIR-OF-QUALITY-2-WAY-REFLEX-6-OHMS-/321011521452?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item4abdc717ac"]http://www.ebay.co.u...=item4abdc717ac[/url]) :and they were fantastic with a detailed and exciting sound , and in most respects they sounded as good as my current speakers that cost ten times as much. In the 90s Mission were ,for the most part, really on top of their game and came out with several cracking smaller ( and larger) speaker designs. They will still sound good now, but the only caveat is that spares for some models might be a problem. If you can get some for a fair price they are well worth a try nevertheless. I still have fond memories of bringing home the first Rage Against The Machine album and listening to Tim Commerfords' Stingray punching out of the speakers in my humble student bedroom and I'm sure they would give you the defined bass that you currently are missing. I'm only banging on about Mission because they are what I'm most familiar with and so can recommend from experience , but plenty of other makers such as Kef and Tannoy also put out some great smaller speakers back in the 90s.

That, my friend , is the masterful playing of David Hungate ( unless I am mistaken) . He was an A- list session player in L.A at the time and it sounds like he is playing his favoured early 60s Precision Bass. He played on a lot of hit records around this time ( still does, but in Nashville nowadays). Check out his playing on Boz Scaggs mega Silk Degrees album from 1976, or else this track by Diana Ross: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLE4LzSI9Zg[/media] He was in Toto too ( with a lot of the guys who played on Silk Degrees), but I expect you already knew that. He is right up there with the very best players, and has some very sage things to say about bass playing and music in general.

Never heard of these guys before but I really like this. It sounds familiar but original at the same time ( if that makes sense) . She's got a great female rock voice -soaring and crystaline. The band do that rock- indie crossover thing really well, and I could see this lot doing very well on American radio.

There are a myriad of smaller speakers to choose from, and if you're looking to buy secondhand then there is almost so much choice as to be overwhelming. One thing to consider is the compatability of any prospective speakers to your amp ; if you want to turn them up loud then you will need some speakers that are reasonably easy for your NAD amp to drive. Most bookshelf speakers should be fine, but if you can look at the spec for any particular speakers then ideally they would be 8 ohms impedance with a sensitivity over 87db, or 6 ohms ideally with a slightly sensitivity. As for brands and models, some of the smaller Mission speakers such as the 760i or 780 are old favourites of mine and are well worth a punt if you see them cheap, or else something like Tannoy 603s or Tannoy 605 are a solid used buy even though they are from 20 years ago. Some smaller floorstanders will still work in a small room , and if you see something like some Rega EL8s at a sensible price they have got nice meaty bass and you won't need stands.

It's difficult to say what's causing your dissatisfaction with the sound of your sdystem without actually hearing it and being able to swap componants and listen to the difference, but if I were to hazard a guess I would say that your speakers may be the guilty culprits. Rega turntables , with a decent cartridge and set-up properly ( a prerequisite for any turntable ) sound great, and yout NAD amp may be a bit long in the tooth but it was a fine budget amp in the late 80s and there is no reason why it shouldn't still sound enjoyable now. What's more, unlike a lot of budget amps nowadays, it has got a very good-sounding phono stage input so if you listen to a lot of vinyl then that is big thing in it's favour. The Arcam Alpha One CD will probably sound perfectly respectable in your current system, which leaves your speakers as an obvious choice to start trying to change things. Speakers in hifi are are a funny old thing in so much as they can make the biggest and most immidiate difference to the sound of any system, but at the same time they are a slave to what is going on further up the signal chain. From what you describe it sounds like you you would like some more detail and definition in the sound. Is the sound you are getting now too boomy in the low frequencies to hear the bass guitar properly? If so it could be the positioning of the speakers. It would be handy to know what size room they are in and how they are positioned. Big floorstanding models such as your Celestions benefit from being sited in free space with a couple of feet between the rear of the speaker and the rear wall. It is also critical to position any speakers well clear ( preferably at least a foot and a half) of side walls to prevent them sounding boomy and indistinct. Big speakers are generally designed to work best in bigger rooms, and if you are listening in a smaller space or a room where you can't position the speakers appropriately then you will never get satsfying results regardless of how good the equipment is. It may be if you have a smaller or awkwardly arranged listening room that you actually get more satisfying bass response and detail from some smaller speakers that are more appropriate to that space . As I have said, I haven't heard your Celestions so I cannot pass comment or judgement, but having had a quick Google I would say that they appear to be typical of a lot of less expensive speakers on the market nowadays here they are a lot of box for the money and designed to work as front speakers in cheaper home cinema setups rather than as "proper" two channel audio hifi speakers . I am not saying this to denigrate your Celestions but just to describe how the market for speakers has gone in recent years as struggling manufactures try to maximise the appeal of their products to bigger marketplace . Most ordinary folks nowadays want to buy a home cinema setup nowadays rather than more traditional two channel audio systems and the sound quality of a lot of speakers on the market has suffered as a result. Would it be possible for you to borrow an alternative pair of speakers from somewhere to try them as a substitute for your celestions so you can hear if they make the kind of difference you wish for? A lot of specialist hifi dealers will let you borrow stuff to demo at home,, or if you have got a friend with some suitable speakers to compare. That might be a good place to start. With the turntable and electronics you have already got with the right speakers you should be able to get a sound you enjoy far more than you are doing now.