Dingus

Food festival? The bottom line is , whatever you do or don't end up getting in terms of money , make sure you all get to eat until you are fit to burst, and make sure you get some jars of home made chutney to take home with you. And cake. Lots of cake.

[quote name='bakerster135' timestamp='1397048092' post='2420085'] Yeah, apparently Leo Fender provided a load of completely straight (i.e. non-adjustable) truss rods, in a malicious move! Unbelievable...If that was the case with the one I'm getting, I'd certainly hope that would have been noticed by now! I'm going to be using this for drop C with 55-110s primarily as well, wasn't completely sure that the '79 three-bolt neck would handle that too well!?...Happy to be corrected of course! That's the one! [/quote] I used to own an 82/83 for bolt 'Ray and it was lightweight compared to most vintage Stingrays, and it sounded just how a Stingray should, very scooped in the mids,, massive bottom end and a slicing treble if you dialed it in with the preamp. However, a word of caution about the necks and using drop tuning . I take no pleasure whatsoever in raining on anyone's parade, but the combination of a very slim profile and pretty basic, un-laminated flat-sawn construction means that the old Music Man necks are not necessarily the most stable or robust , and can be rather prone to bending . I would be very reluctant to do anything that would put undue or unusual tension on the neck of a rare and valuable vintage bass like your incoming Stingray. You could potentially be letting yourself in for all kinds of problems, even with a four bolt fixing . Regardless of how it is bolted to the body, the neck is under the same stresses from string tension. Obviously, it's your bass so you can do just as you please, but just be aware that even with a correctly functioning truss rod, those necks need to be treated with a bit of care and respect to stay straight and true. That said, I hope your new bass is all you expect it to be and more.

[quote name='Wil' timestamp='1396916887' post='2418812'] Blue is amazing, great songs, and her voice is something else. [/quote] Surely one the best albums of all time. One of those rare L.Ps where every track is superb . If ever there was a record overdue to be featured on that Classic Albums documentary series then it [i]must [/i]be Blue by Joni Mitchell.

On the same tack, isn't it great that there is somewhere like Basschat where genuine enthusiasts can trade bass gear between each other and cut out the middleman , hopefully meaning both buyer and seller get a better deal. Anyone who has ever tried doing a part-exchange deal with a shop will know what I mean. Hopefully , selling on Basschat, there is far less chance of being left sucking lemons than if you were dealing with a typical retailer. Maybe that is another reason why some people feel at liberty to buy and sell basses with gay abandon .

I am reading this thread with particular interest, because I am currently musing whether to put one of my basses up for sale on Basschat, my first ever bass sale on this site. I can't help but wonder if part of the reason I am probably going to try selling it is that I have up to know been missing out on the excitement of trading basses on here. I personally think a lot of people very much enjoy the controlled stress and uncertainty of buying and selling bass gear, in much the same way that many people enjoy gambling. There is undoubtedly a buzz to be had from discarding what you don't want and acquiring what you think will make you happy , and even on the internet ( maybe[i] particularly [/i]on the internet) there is an innate attraction for many people to the bustle of the marketplace.

We have indeed had this discussion a fair few times before, and if I might say, everybody gets it it a bit wrong every time. The economy of scale thing is certainly a factor in why goods may be a bit cheaper in America, but it is a fairly minor factor, when all is said and done. The most significant reason is that America is a relatively low taxation economy, but it takes money from its' citizens in other ways. Also , in real terms those prices quoted in U.S dollars are not as cheap to consumers in America as they appear, in so much as you are all making the cardinal error of using the exchange rate with £ Sterling as an indication of relative costs, but the exchange rate is not any kind of accurate indication of the domestic buying power of the dollar in the United States. . In reality, in most instances, a dollar will buy you approximately what a pound would in the U.K , and sometimes more, so if for instance a bass costs three thousand dollars, to buy it in the USA then the typical American is depriving himself of the same potential spending power as someone in the U.K spending three thousand pounds on the same bass here. The fact is that.especially in light of that domestic buying power of the dollar that I have outlined, in terms of spending ability , Americans on average have far higher wages and a much higher standard of living than most of their European counterparts, including poor sods in the U.K. Put another way, statistically speaking, it costs an American less a proportion of their wages to buy luxury consumer goods than their equivalents in the U.K . That is because they are richer and more prosperous than us, in much the same way that people in the U.K are richer and more prosperous than people in Bulgaria or the Congo . [u][i]That [/i][/u]is what you are actually getting upset about, not this spurious idea of "rip off Britain".

I remember when these were a current model, and that must be thirty years ago now! I remember there was an Ibanez advert in the American guitar magazines with Mark Egan playing the sunburst one. To get a new bass made nowadays built to the same quality as these vintage Ibanez examples you would have to spend a lot of money. Lovely collection, and I like your taste in basses.

I love Pino ( and Simon Phillips can play a bit, too) but I am having a hard time trying to enjoy this music. [i]Way [/i]too noodly for my tastes, I'm afraid. The keyboard sound is very reminiscent of Jan Hammer in the 1970's/early 1980's. That is neither good nor bad , but I just thought I would mention it.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1396883388' post='2418348'] But knowing what notes sound best with which chord depends a lot on subjective taste and the style of music you are playing. I really can't stand 3rds - they always sound "out of tune to me) and usually replace them with 9ths or 4ths depending on what has come before and what comes next. However these days I rarely think in terms of chords and what notes work over them, but instead listen to the "tune" of the what the rest of the instruments and vocals are doing and fit the bass around and over that. [/quote] To make those kind of informed choices, you are obviously benefiting from knowing some music theory.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1396884888' post='2418374'] The truth is that, if you are playing pop/rock/funk etc, you are almost never going to come across anything that needs and intimate knowledge of the altered dominant scale and its associated chords (there are a tiny number of exceptions but they are rare). Deal with the Major, Minor and Diminished scales and all their modes and you will pretty much have it (pentatonics are only major and minor scales with notes left out). THat is three scales (one of which only has two variants x 12 notes = 26 scales to learn. It's a days work. [/quote] I really need to do some work on diminished scales and their application. I will let you know how I go on.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1396885222' post='2418380'] I can 'hear' a bass line / guitar part / even sometimes vocals and drum paterns in my head, usually way before I pick up an instrument. Then I'll try and get what I can hear into a part of a song. The brain is a strange and fascinating organ. I still find it odd that I can have essentially a 'jukebox' in my head if I know a song or album well enough. Totally off topic. [/quote] That's quite enough about your fascinating organ, Gareth ! This is a family show. I'm not aiming these remarks specifically at Gareth or indeed his impressive organ, but I have said it before and I'll say it again, people who claim not to want to learn some music theory are in fact using music theory just the same as people who do make an effort to learn some , they are just making much harder work of it for themselves as they try and discover for themselves by accident what is basic musical knowledge . If someone takes the" experimenting and seeing how it sounds" approach , they are in effect just spending their time inventing the wheel all over again . Someone who went before you already knows how it is going to sound, so why not learn from them and get cracking with playing some music ? Music is essentially organized sound, and everyone needs to know how to conform to the same rules , [i]especially[/i] if ultimately they want to break those rules. If you are a lazy person like me, it is much easier to learn some applied theory than to have to spend years discovering it for yourself. Thank goodness my dad sent me for lessons with a jazz musician when I first started playing, because it helped me get my priorities right.

[quote name='EMG456' timestamp='1396874937' post='2418198'] Well, given the history between Ned Steinberger and Stuart Spector, I would not be at all surprised if it turned out to be the same people in the Czech Republic making the Euro Spectors that make the NS Design instrument line. I don't have any evidence of that - pure conjecture! If it is the case though, the fact that Ned has now even passed over the production of the top notch, multi- laminate wood/ carbon concentric neck upright basses to the Czech Republic suggests that you would be able to rely on the quality of the Euro basses being of the highest. Funny, I really like Spectors but I've never found a Warwick that I liked except to look at. Cheers Ed [/quote][quote name='EMG456' timestamp='1396874937' post='2418198'] Well, given the history between Ned Steinberger and Stuart Spector, I would not be at all surprised if it turned out to be the same people in the Czech Republic making the Euro Spectors that make the NS Design instrument line. I don't have any evidence of that - pure conjecture! If it is the case though, the fact that Ned has now even passed over the production of the top notch, multi- laminate wood/ carbon concentric neck upright basses to the Czech Republic suggests that you would be able to rely on the quality of the Euro basses being of the highest. Funny, I really like Spectors but I've never found a Warwick that I liked except to look at. Cheers Ed [/quote] I seem to remember that they chose the Czech Republic because there is a long tradition of instrument making there, and there were plenty of highly skilled local craftsmen who were already trained in the art of bass making . I know a lot of the best ( and most valuable) double basses were always made in Bohemia. It may well be that the manufacturing quality for upright basses is potentially [i]better[/i] in the Czech Republic than in the U.S.A. I wouldn't be at at all surprised if it was indeed the same craftsmen using their easily transferable skills on the Spector bass guitars. I also wouldn't be at all surprised if the Czech -made Spectors sounded almost identical to the USA -made basses.

They definitely did have one of Dick Nolan's Zon basses for sale at the Bass Center , but that will have been back around 1990, if I recall correctly, and that shop had the most impressive turn-around of stock I have ever seen in any music shop. You would go in there one day and marvel at all the beautiful basses and then when you went in again a couple of weeks later they had all been sold and new ones had taken their place. In light of that, it would seem unlikely Dick's Zon would be hanging around the shop for four years, but I suppose there is always the chance that the bass found its' way back there at a later date . I have got some very vague recollection that the Zon of Dick's that they had a Wapping was actually a Legacy Standard or something similar , maybe the one pickup model, rather than a full-spec Legacy Elite. I could be[u] totally [/u]wrong about that - I'm getting to be the age where my memory can play tricks on me- but it rings a bell somewhere.

Joni Mitchell ? Quite simply , sublime. What is often overlooked about her is that she is an incredible singer from a technical standpoint - she seems incapable of singing off-key - and capable of effortlessly switching her vocal skills from one style of music to the next. Add to that natural, God-given ability her amazing craft as a songwriter and bandleader and you begin to see the monumental size of her talent .

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1396791625' post='2417341'] Believe me, I would love to have bought an NS2' but I can't justify spending 5 grand on a bass, so the euro will have to do for now [/quote] [quote name='Mark Dyer' timestamp='1396801012' post='2417462'] I'm expecting my Spector (Euro model) any day soon, and as you would expect I did quite a bit of playing and comparing before committing to it. I spent two sessions at Bass Direct, playing both Euro and US models through various amp/cab setups, and although we all admitted the US build had a slight edge in sound quality and build, we all agreed (Mark at BD, my bass tech* and myself) that it didn't justify the nearly £2000 in price difference. Ok, I know there are exchange rates, import duties involved in US instruments but what I'm trying to say is, don't think if you buy a Euro made Spector that it is sub standard to a US build, because it is not. Very excited about it arriving. *Ok, I don't really have a bass tech, it was my mate Dave, but he did once put one of my basses away after a gig so I think that counts. [/quote] Please don't get the impression that I am being snooty at all about the Euro basses, or indeed the ones made in the Far East, I'm sure they are great . I just wanted to point out that my observations about the sound of Spector basses are derived entirely from the USA models because those are the only ones I have ever encountered . I would love to try a Euro model and compare, and I am sure the law of diminishing returns may well apply to material differences between the Euro and USA models . I'm showing my age here, but bear in mind that when I started hankering for a Spector, they were all made in Brooklyn, NY anyway ,so the other models available nowadays didn't really feature in anyone's thinking. I have wanted one of those basses for a very long time, but have never quite taken the plunge yet, largely because up to now they always seemed that little bit too expensive to be a sensible choice when you look at what else you could buy for the money or suffered some other impediment like being too heavy or not in my choice of colour , but if I live long enough I'm sure I will get one someday, eventually . Talking of money, the elephant in the room regarding Warwick basses is their current U.K prices. They are making some lovely stuff, but flippin' 'eck do they seriously expect people to pay that much for them ?!! From what I have seen, they are essentially factory-made production guitars, albeit of a very high quality. I suppose Warwick can charge what they like, but when was the last time you heard of someone ordering a new German-made Warwick bass ? Most folks on Basschat would think recommend someone seek psychiatric treatment if they were to fork out for a new Warwick at their current U.K street prices. In real terms, for the kind of quality they are and the work that has typically gone into them , their basses are worth a bit more than EBMM and regular USA Fenders, but not[i] that[/i] much more! I think it is no an exaggeration to say that their basses are about 40% overpriced.

All I can add is that I can definitely detect a very slight change in the feel of a string if it strung through the body as opposed to the strung through the bridge on most basses I have tried comparing either way, but I didn't ever notice much difference in tone either way. If the O.P is looking to compare DR's and TI Jazz Rounds , then Sunbeams ( i.e nickel Hi Beams) would probably be the best choice. I use Sunbeams on my Precision Bass and on my Lakland fretless and they sound great and last ages. The TI Jazz rounds are great too and have a unique sound and feel , but they are rather pricey and be aware that they really are [i]very[/i] slack -feeling, to the extent that to begin with you might have to adapt your playing technique a little bit to accommodate them.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1396710250' post='2416666'] Regardless of the vintage of whatever Warwick basses you want to compare, the similarities between any Warwick basses and the classic Spector designs are superficial, at best. Just because some Warwicks look like Spectors, it doesn't necessarily follow that one brand will substitute for the other. Yes , the Streamer body shape that Warwick established themselves as a company on the back of is a direct rip- off from the NS design that belongs to Spector , but the different woods and manufacturing techniques used on Warwicks means they have always sounded very different to Spector basses. I personally think they both sound great in their own right ( despite never having owned either brand ) but you may prefer one over another according to your individual taste. To my ears, the classic Spector NS2 has an inherent low end heft coupled with an inherent crispness and edge to its' sound that is very appealing . Warwick basses sound a bit richer and more" woody ", but usually still with plenty of attack and extended high frequencies . [/quote] Can I just make it clear, although I have never actually owned a Spector or a Warwick, I have played[i] plenty[/i] of both and so am quite familiar with the signature sound of both makes , but when I refer to Spector I mean the full-spec USA NS models . Those are the only ones I have ever played. In fact, buying one of those has been a bit of a long-term project for me, but I have never found the right one in the right colour at the right weight yet. As for the rest of their range, I have no idea what it is like. Similarly, when I refer to Warwick , I only mean the German-made ones like the Streamer, Thumb, Dolphin ect. I have never dabbled in the budget ones. For what it's worth, I think the great strength of Warwick and Spector basses is that they both make instruments that don't sound as anemic as a lot of other boutique basses tend to, and their respective basses both have a much more hefty sound that has got the right kind of presence in a mix to sit well with loud guitars and drums and plenty of "grunt" all-round , hence the popularity of both brands with rock players.

Regardless of the vintage of whatever Warwick basses you want to compare, the similarities between any Warwick basses and the classic Spector designs are superficial, at best. Just because some Warwicks look like Spectors, it doesn't necessarily follow that one brand will substitute for the other. Yes , the Streamer body shape that Warwick established themselves as a company on the back of is a direct rip- off from the NS design that belongs to Spector , but the different woods and manufacturing techniques used on Warwicks means they have always sounded very different to Spector basses. I personally think they both sound great in their own right ( despite never having owned either brand ) but you may prefer one over another according to your individual taste. To my ears, the classic Spector NS2 has an impressive low -end heft coupled with an inherent crispness and edge to its' sound that is very appealing . Warwick basses sound a bit richer and more" woody ", but usually still with plenty of attack and extended high frequencies .

In addition to what Barrie has said, a lot of the 1970's Music Man basses are very heavy ( then again, so are a lot of the new ones, to be fair ) , so make sure you get an accurate weight for any prospective purchase.