Dingus

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1396619842' post='2415756'] sorry i just don't buy it. some alembics are nearly three times the price of a Shuker, or a Sei. and Alembic don't put three times as much effort in to there making there basses than these makers. . they ride on there image, and can get away with the huge prices of there basses on that fact. its nothing to do with capturing peoples imagination. its about very cleverly forming an image, with top players, endorsees etc. and riding the wave and overcharging because the can. just like Fodera, fantastic instruments no doubt, but overpriced. yep. i think its very naive to think otherwise. i personally would feel like a bit of a wally, walking on stage with a Fodera or an Alembic. [/quote] Of course, no one will force you to buy an Alembic if you don't like them , don't really want one, don't think they are good value for money, or last but not least, simply can't afford one, but none of those points of view or personal circumstances necessarily mean that Alembics are overpriced. To be frank, your suggestion that Alembic have conspired with their endorsers to foster a false impression of their instruments in order to get away with charging inflated prices is ridiculous. Like most conspiracy theories, it completely overestimates the degree of connivance and organisational abilities of the supposed conspirators. Rather, the reason Alembic have such a cache as a brand is because they are the originators of money -is-no-object custom built, hi-tech electric guitars and basses, and so many of the standard design features we take for granted on such instruments were first conceived of and designed by Alembic . Put simply, Alembic have a formidable reputation because they[i] are[/i] formidable ! At the risk of repeating myself, Alembics pricing structure is very much directly dictated by the amount of skilled man hours it takes to produce each design, including their complex and unique electronics which they largely manufacture themselves from scratch. If you want an Alembic, they cost what they cost. I can guarantee you that Alembic do not make excessive or unreasonable profit on the basses they make, and their prices merely reflect the amount of work they put into making them. If you don't think they are worth what they cost then don't buy one, but, for various reasons, Alembic are not in direct competition with any of the other bass builders you mention and do not take other companies prices into account when costing their own designs. Why would they ? Comparing Alembic to other other custom bass builders such as Sei or Shuker is a complete red herring , an irrelevance , not least of all because both of those builders produce basses that use bought -in packages of electronics and hardware. Also , significantly, neither of those builders make basses with the kind of iconic design and unique personality that Alembics have in spades. Sei, Shuker and whole host of other manufacturers will make make you a fancy bass, but none of them will substitute for a proper Alembic.

Based on those clips , I think Pino fits his style effortlessly into NIN's music, and, more surprisingly perhaps , he seems to look perfectly at home, too. I suppose avid fans of the band might take exception to different arrangements of their music to accommodate the style of a new musician in the band, whoever it might be, and they are perfectly entitled to do so, but as a (very) casual listener of NIN's music myself , I think resurrecting Pino's languid, futuristic fretless playing style from the early 1980's is a bit of a masterstroke on Trent Reznor's part. . I know Trent was influenced by the music of Gary Numan , and it was on Gary's 1982 album I Assassin that Pino first came to prominence as a fretless stylist [i]par excellence[/i]. I am sure that history has influenced NIN'S current choice of bass player. I would think Pino could excel in the context of NIN's intense electronic musical textures , not least of all because it is in fact very familiar ground to him.

I want a Precision with a maple board now.

Beautiful bass, Graeme . Enjoy it. Ash/maple/white plate is one of my favourite combinations, and [i]screams[/i] early 1970's. Over the years, I have loads of Precisions from this era and if you get a good one then in their own way they are just as good and just as desirable as pre-CBS basses, in my opinion. I can tell just by looking at it that that this bass is going to have an aggressive sound and be a bit of a hooligan. Great stuff!

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1396534305' post='2414785'] I don't see why not! [/quote] You've made an old man very happy. You look great in that black dress, by the way.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1396532754' post='2414751'] I thank you sir, I do like it a lot. I also like my newly-acquired GK MB500 Fusion and 1212L cab, too. But I am well aware that one man's great tone is another man's 'So what?', so I'm pretty sure there must be a number of members wondering what the fuss is about. But you're quite right, of course. [/quote] I'm a big fan of GK amps too, as it happens, and I'm delighted to hear you are enjoying your new setup, which effortlessly blend modern technology with offbeat retro chic. Sometimes I would like to do the same thing myself , but if I try and do retro chic it just ends up looking like I've been to jumble sale in aid of SANE. At the moment I am actually looking at one of my basses that I never seem to play and trying to decide whether to sell it or do the unthinkable and put flats on it in a last- ditch attempt to be edgy and trendy. Maybe[i] I [/i]could have some vintage throb ?

Yes, to me both those basses look better with those necks swapped over . All in all, a [i]very[/i] nice pair.

That bass sounds superb, with a really strong fundamental that suits the sound of flatwounds so perfectly. That recorded tone is[u] [i]the[/i][/u] sound that so many bass players are trying to get nowadays. I'm not surprised you are so happy with it.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1396469147' post='2414127'] These basses are made from obeche, which is relatively soft but is also light. [/quote] Yes, it has always been one of my favourite cheeses for that very reason.

Stanley Clarke is a brilliant bass player and all-round superb musician who has indeed produced plenty of crap music over his long career, as well as some sublime moments, too. Funnily enough, that Whistle test clip of Stanley Clarke is from a special one-off program they broadcast in May 1981 featuring Stanley Clarke and George Duke together, and I remember it so well because, by incredible coincidence, it was shown on BBC2 the night that I got my very first bass guitar. It was a revelation to me at the time , not least of all because it struck me at the time that this guy who I had never heard of up to that moment [i]might actually be better than Geddy Lee[/i](!), and it made such a lasting impression on me that I am still under its' influence over thirty years later. The rich twang and growl of Stanley's Alembic bass and his incredulous facial expressions have never really left me. Stan made his best music in the 1970's , when he was one of fusion music's leading lights. His more recent records have all been a huge disappointment by comparison , and he needs to stop buggering about so much playing the tenor bass and piccolo bass and just play the regular bass more in my humble opinion, and preferably not to the kind of awful muzak he far too often churned out for public consumption in recent years. It's worth mentioning that Stan is also a virtuoso double bass player, too, and arguably even better on that instrument than the bass guitar.

I was too ugly to be a male model. Do you hear me complaining?

[quote name='cocco' timestamp='1396287759' post='2411882'] Are you the same jazzyvee off the alembic forum? If so your purple elan is gorgeous! I like the elan, Orion, and Europa shapes the most. I wouldn't have the patience to wait for a new one though. What do these generally sell for? I'm not after a museum piece, just a players bass, the more maple the better and the less coffee table looking the better, preferably a solid or trans black finish. [/quote] I'm afraid that you may struggle to find exactly the bass you are after if your tastes are so specific. Alembics are relatively rare basses by most standards , and most are made in natural wood finishes , especially the less expensive ones. It can be difficult enough to find [i]any[/i] Alembic bass for sale, let alone exactly the model you want in your preferred finish. I recall that there was a time in the very early 1990's when they were making quite a few Essence and Europa- style basses in solid colours and transparents , too, but I don't remember seeing any black ones, I must admit . There were some beautiful colours , though, like trans cherry red , trans blue and trans green. Alembic had obviously done a run of them because their catalogue at the time featured them quite heavily , and I remember seeing them on display in local music stores in the San Francisco Bay Area. I also vividly remember seeing a solid white Europa in a shop in Seattle and it looked stunning . Hunting down one of those might be your best bet. If you can find a bass in a desirable solid colour you may well find that that rarity is reflected in the asking price somewhat, too. Alembics are special basses , and they are rarely available at bargain prices unless someone is desperate to raise cash. That said, I have seen one or two come up on Basschat at reasonable money. Try doing a search on the Basses For Sale section and get a feel for what the market is like for them.

I once saw Chris Waddle walking down the street, and he looked about seven feet tall with a neck like a giraffe, yet when you used to see him on the football pitch he just looked fairly ordinary sized, because in his work environment ( playing football) he was surrounded by other men of a similar height and physique. The point of this story is that some people are bigger than others, and that will probably always be the case. Short people have to accept they excluded from certain activities like sex and basketball, and so it's not unreasonable that tall folks should be excluded from certain things too. That way, the misery is spread out more fairly. I have been excluded from all kinds of things in my time, like school and, more recently, wearing Mrs Dingus' nightie, but I have never felt sorry for myself or let it get me down . The O.P just needs to dust himself off and get out there again. There are plenty of tall musicians, especially in Scandanavia, so don't give up trying to find the right opportunity.

[quote name='JazzBassfreak' timestamp='1396279154' post='2411735'] So many people look down on the Epics too, really underrated basses [/quote] I don't look down on them. They are terrific basses ! The bottom line is, if it says Alembic on it, it will sound superb , whatever model it is.

A lot of them are too bleedin' heavy as well. I forgot about that. Another reason why the slightly more sveldt, less expensive ones are in many ways a better bet.

[quote name='cocco' timestamp='1396205435' post='2410982'] So I'm developing an obsession with Alembic basses, more notably the lower end of the range. Orion, Elan, Persuader etc. Just wondering what they are like to live with? What are the pros and cons? How easy are the filter preamps to get on with? And most importantly how are they in a live situation? I'm a rock player and I need something that keeps up with loud guitars, Jason Newsted playing one gives me hope, but then I don't have his budget. [/quote] A lot of of the lower priced Alembics have a bass and treble boost and cut preamp rather than a filter-based one, but they still sound like Alembics. To my sensibilities, the biggest issue with Alembics is their playability. In many ways, they are their own worst enemy in that, particularly with the more expensive models, the ergonomics can be a problem. With the classic Alembic body shapes, especially with a 34 inch scale bass, neck dive and overall playing comfort are a big issues for me. Some of the more modern designs ( and some of the less expensive models) are far better in those respects. Even though nothing can match the full-on sound of the Series 1 and 2 Alembics, it's pretty remarkable how much the more basic models still have of that wide bandwidth , full frequency spectrum Alembic sound . And yes, they will sound good with loud guitars and drums, unlike a lot of fancy exotic wood basses.

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1396227124' post='2411231'] sorry i love some Alembics and i love the Rouge. but i just don't get it price wise. I'm all for great instrument manufacturer's. but some maker's do over charge, because of there name, and rep. as subjective as it is. i bet John Shuker, or Martin Peterson could make, and does make a bass, that is in equal quality to any Alembic. look at the price difference. don't get me wrong Alembic's Fodera's are fantastic instrument's but they are overpriced. i would put any lower priced instrument by Sei next to any high end Fodera, and you show me the difference in quality. [/quote] The price of Alembic basses is a result of the sheer amount of hours it takes to make each instrument. All their basic costings are done on the number of hours it typically takes to make each bass. Add to that the fact that this labour-intensive work is done by highly skilled craftsmen and women using the finest quality woods , proprietary hardware and electronics , and then you start to see why they cost so much. And as for Sei basses versus Fodera or Alembic, I've never played a Sei but I'm sure they are excellent instruments , but where those two revered American bass builders score over them in terms of desirability is the overall appeal of their designs and the characteristic sounds of their basses. Build quality is not the only consideration. Particulaly with Alembics, no other bass will adequately substitute , they sound unique. Fodera less so ( I'm not a huge fan myself, just not my thing ) , but they inspire devotion in some players. There are all kinds of excellent bass builders out there, but most of them fail to capture people's imagination in the same way that Alembic and Fodera have done.

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1396053239' post='2409587'] I neither know nor care. Most of the time I just come to BassChat to discuss music and have a laugh with normal people. If I wanted to read diatribes about Tory education policy I'd go elsewhere. Politics is the bane of this forum; and now it's spreading out of OT. Way to go, enlightened moderation policy. [/quote] Well look back at this thread. You started it before I did.

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1396043166' post='2409484'] Perhaps. But that seems mostly to be about Mr Gove's failings in the wider arena which most would agree are open to rational criticism (unless one is a performer in Dingus's troupe of agit-prop drama queens where anyone to the right of Trotsky is a moustache-twirling baby-eater in a top hat). [/quote] I would love to respond in full, but I am currently busy trying to source some ethically manufactured dungarees . Suffice to say that any judgement of Michael Gove's performance as Education Minister depends on an accurate assessment of his true aims , and those of the Government as a whole. Do you honestly believe that they want to expand the best opportunities to the widest possible social spectrum ? For serious ? In private, they see their real mandate as being to undo the social legislation of the last fifty or so years and return this country to a time where people knew their place according to the circumstances of their birth. The Tories have viewed the social changes of the post Second World War era with a mixture of fear and contempt, and this lot see the current circumstances of austerity as their chance to set the clock back . In that aim, Gove and his political masters are doing a fine job, particularly in exploiting the ignorance ,stupidity and short-sighted self-interest of the British public. What need have children from less well- off or more modest backgrounds got for music lessons when the purpose of their lives is not to to be educated in the wider sense so they can achieve their full potential as individuals, but rather, if they are lucky, to be trained for a lifetime of work in the service of their social superiors?