Dingus

[quote name='theyellowcar' timestamp='1394985299' post='2397373'] Given it a bash, it's quite a cool concept, but to echo someone else's point from earlier in the thread there are only a few finishes available that aren't already available in Fender's standard range. I would love to see them broaden colour palette. [/quote] Fender specifically keep a lot of their most appealing colours for special editions and Custom Shop creations. It is very conspicuous that they don't offer colours like Fiesta Red, Firemist Gold, Sea Foam Green[i] et al[/i] for the American Standard range and similar work-a-day models. Fender aren't daft , and use customer's desire for those colour options to act as an incentive towards their more upmarket models.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1394978553' post='2397243'] I'm confused now - are we agreeing or having an argument? [/quote] We are agreeing, it is just that I wouldn't describe flashy players as virtuosos, they are just flashy. True virtuosity requires the exercise of taste and judgement, which is a lot of these chaps in question can not even begin to fathom. I am not against flamboyant, up-front bass playing for one moment- I love lots of players in all kinds of genres who push the boundaries and want a high profile in the music- but it either works or it doesn't. There seems to be a subculture of fancy bass players nowadays who don't actually seem to play any music and just go round doing gymnastics for anyone who will watch.

Prompted partly by this thread I had another go at playing with a pick last night ( big green Dunlop one) and I just cant do it. I thought I would try and knock out some Police songs to amuse myself during Match Of The Day, and the results were awful ( not unlike Sting's recent solo records in that respect). Firstly, the pick is constantly moving in my grip and threatening to fall out of my grasp, and just as bad, the notes seem to arrive at fractionally different times between my picking and left hand fingering. Playing with pick seems to make me go out of sync. If I use my nail like a pick, I am fine, but give me a pick and I sound like a beginner again, which I suppose is what I am. I was brought up by my bass teacher to believe that bass players whom played with a pick were mentally sub-normal , and in many cases that is actually true, but at the same time, there are so many great pick players and so many songs where you just can't play them properly without using a pick that nowadays I would dearly love to be able to use one. Most other finger players seem to have far less trouble switching over to a pick than I do, but maybe because I have never owned a six string guitar that is one reason why it all feels so alien to me.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1394964786' post='2397071'] We`ve been fortunate to get a gig supporting them. Apparently Charlie is pushing 70 now, and still going strong. [/quote] Who would have ever thought we would end up living in a world where there were punk rockers in their 70's? I just hope they don't start swearing at the Meals On Wheels people and gobbing on them, , because those people do a fabulous job.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1394923811' post='2396853'] I totally agree. But it's no secret that I've never been a fan of the bass guitar played as a virtuoso instrument. Unfortunately, slapping lends itself quite well to those players who do what I call 'showing off' and IMO the bass is not, or at least shouldn't be, a solo instrument. [/quote] Well, I understand what you are saying , and I suppose a lot depends on what you define as virtuosity, because to me a lot ( most) of these super flashy players are not actually virtuosos. They are just novelty acts doing a turn . James Jamerson and Jaco Pastorius were virtuosos. Stanley Clarke is a virtuoso. Richard Bona is a virtuoso. Marcus Miller is a virtuoso. Pino Palladino is a virtuoso. All these players have formidable technique , but crucially, they know how and when to use it in a musical context. Their virtuosity is as much in how they [i]think[/i] as in how they play, because the former greatly influences the quality of the latter. [u][i]That[/i][/u] is what makes them virtuosos, not showboating pyrotechnics just for the sake of it. It would be wrong to name names, because some of them are members on Basschat, but most people know who these guys are , and as Shakespeare ( William, not Robbie) described their playing , " It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury and signifying nothing". It impresses gullible people who can't think for themselves, , such as metal guitarists and company reps at NAMM , but for anyone who knows their arse from their elbow it is embarrassing to witness the lack of self-awareness that some of these guys exhibit( quite literally, considering how much time they seem to spend demonstrating gear at trade shows).

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1394922924' post='2396841'] Me neither. But that frantic slapping bloke has been in at least one semi-famous band, hasn't he? Actually that's not true - I reckon it's just a front for his slap-happy flapfests. [/quote] The slappers I am thinking of are eastern European and to a lesser extent American and none have ever been in any significant bands to the best of my knowledge,. Even a relative superstar like Victor Wooten seems to mainly exist in some strange hinterland between the clinic circuit , instruction videos and all-star jams. You can't imagine Victor being hired as a sideman and putting down the bass lines on the next album by Jay-Z or whoever in the same way that Louis Johnson did for Michael Jackson in his heyday.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1394922300' post='2396829'] So true, but in fairness there is at least one pick player doing the same thing. Only, er... playing with a pick. [/quote] If that pick player is who I think it is, though, then at least he has had a distinguished career playing in bands as a sideman. I don't begrudge him resting on his laurels a bit now he is getting on a bit.

They should shorten the the name to "R. Soul Express". At least people would remember them.

And so to summarise, slapping good... but slapping also very bad.

Any song by The Smiths, "Lido Shuffle" by Boz Skaggs, " For The Love Of Money" by The O'Jays, Thin Lizzy , especially the Black Rose album.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1394920856' post='2396802'] Who said that? [/quote] Your guide dog?

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1394911004' post='2396656'] It's funny how us pick players don't have a go at finger players for looking unmanly etc. Very boring. [/quote] I play exclusively with my fingers and I am indeed very unmanly .In fact, I am regularly mistaken for a woman or, less flatteringly, a transexual who isn't trying hard enough. Coincidence?

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1394918519' post='2396778'] Slap is a technique which is good in places, and not in others, in my view. Club Tropicana by Wham is a song made much better by the slap-bass in it. The thing that gets me though, is going to the London Bass Guitar Show, almost every bassist trying out gear was slapping away, yet in much of the music on the radio, slap-bass doesn`t feature on it, so is it a technique that is now outdated? Additionally, I got some very strange looks at LBGS when playing a UK Subs bassline, with a pick. Like I was some kind of weirdo, oh hang on........ [/quote] UK Subs? I went to a party many years ago and, much to my amazement , they were there. Nice fellas, too. Charlie is[i] way [/i] too old to be a punk rocker, though, it has to be said. He was too old in 1977, if the truth be told. Slapping has indeed become dated, but it was already dated at the time it was popular, so think of it as being dated in a kind of " Best Before" rather than"Use By" sense. Slapping is[i][u] meant [/u][/i]to sound dated. When it comes to slap, dated is good. Unfortunately, a lot of trade show slappers have lost sight of the fact that slap needs to be used musically and with some kind of wit and invention , and we all know what the results sound like. Without naming any names, there seem to be number of bass players nowadays who apparently make a living by wondering the globe and appearing on You Tube slapping and tapping for their supper in a polyrhythmic quasi-melodic manner on a variety of exotic basses, but who have probably actually never played the bassline to a song in years.

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1394826959' post='2395762'] I love the bass but am unsure of the shoes! [/quote] With the right accessories ( like this Rickenbacker bass for example) they could work as part of your outfit.

I've just seen one of these for sale in a shop in the U.S.A and it weighs 9 pounds exactly , so typical weight for a Rickenbacker.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1394817966' post='2395624'] Yes, that's what I'd do... if necessary. Larry Graham [i]et al[/i], that kind of thing. [/quote] Yes, Larry knew what he was doing , no doubt about that. By comparison, so much contemporary" trade show" slapping has no apparent practical use in a real world musical situation. Off the top of my head, the only song I can think that has got anything on it remotely like what some of these modern guys are doing to show off is the slap solo in "Stomp" by The Brothers Johnson. In most other instances, even on tracks with prominent slap bass on them, the slapping is usually comparatively simple or straightforward, at least.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1394751840' post='2394957'] I remember I got talking to some people who I hadn't met before and about an hour in one of them asked where I was from. I hadn't realised what a local accent I'd ended up with until that point, and indeed I was totally ridiculed when I moved back to ****ing Wakefield! [/quote] To be fair, in Wakefield most people think going to Leeds for the day is a foreign holiday .

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1394747319' post='2394856'] Tapping never sounds good though. Slapping… Mostly people don't like it because most people who do it don't do it for the sound, they do it because they want people to look at them. I remember once being at a jam night and Dave La Rue turned up and slapped all night, and behind the stage was a massive beer-advertising mirror and he spent the whole time looking at himself in the mirror slapping. A lot of slappers are like him. I've started doing more slap bass lately because I'm putting together a sort-of old-school hip-hop band, so I'm trying to slap like Doug Wimbish did on the Sugarhill Records releases, simple stuff and heavy-handed, or like some of the other late '70s guys early '80s guys, slapping like they used to do before Mark King turned it into a competition. I make it a point that you can hear every note I slap because I left space for it, unlike the trade show clowns with their ridiculous super-tempoed double-thumbing bull****. That's why everybody hates slap bass these days. [/quote] This mirrors exactly my own thoughts on slapping ( and tapping, which invariably sounds crap and completely inappropriate on a bass guitar. Even if you can tap on a bass , why would you?). I slap, but I am trying to slap like the old school players did back in the'70's / early 1980's before slapping became an Olympic event and, most importantly, it still sounded good within the context of the music. I love of a lot of black American music from that era, and slap bass is big part of that sound. There are actually a whole host of different styles of slap, and the best exponents all seem to have their own take on it.

Putting my sensible head on for a minute, it might be that one reason why they have gone with a maple board is that it imparts some of that bright and punchy Rick tone that usually comes from the maple body. Walnut will sound different because it's a much softer wood than maple. I think this is one of those basses that will look much better in the flesh than it does in photographs, and it looks pretty good in the photographs.

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1394799565' post='2395347'] Some people don't read though. [/quote] [quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1394809134' post='2395484'] It's got naff all to do with being precious. It's to do with perceiving people to be rude. This judgemental thing that's going on - it's a bit rude as well. [/quote] My unsolicited advice would be that when you are selling something and, as inevitably happens sometimes ( hopefully rarely) that you encounter rude or obnoxious prospective buyers, your first recourse should always be to treat them with patience and courtesy, or what an American friend of mine euphemistically calls "enhanced customer service" . How other people behave is beyond your control, so don't take it personally if some people are rude and unpleasant. It's not your job to change them or impress upon them them the error of their ways. All you want is their custom , not their friendship. Give them every opportunity to buy, regardless of their manner, and then politely show them the door.

[quote name='Lw.' timestamp='1394800454' post='2395360'] Yeah I'm fine with sales talk but sometimes it seems that a few people either have or have sold x-brand of bass all putting the usual guff about "being the best version", "just as good, if not better than x" etc... and they've all convinced themselves the basses are worth more than they actually are. Fine though, I'll always try to negotiate though the nature of negotiation is hard for one-off private sales as it's very one dimensional (as opposed to negotiating with shops or employers etc...). [/quote] I suppose all the sellers are doing in this circumstance is what the manufacturers themselves do, which is try and convince you that this particular piece of equipment is[u] [i]the[/i] [/u]one, and not just another one. Commercial values of goods are usually quite arbitrary so sellers have the perfect right to use every means available to present their goods as being of significant value. It's up to the seller to use their discernment . Put plainly, if you don't think the deal is right for you , don't buy it. No one will force you, and there is always([u] always)[/u] another deal that comes along afterwards.