Dingus

[quote name='great harry' timestamp='1387137026' post='2308586'] This forum should be renamed anorak chat. [/quote] Anorak chat would be a great forum . It could encompass a wide range of topics and interests. After all, you can get up to all sorts of things in an anorak.

I think having these kind of clubs on Basschat would be a terrible idea. Let's do it!

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1387140344' post='2308666'] Depends on condition etc. I would want a good look at it regardless...some Supernaturals of this time had, shall we say, less than reliable neck stability. [/quote] A very big +1 on this. If this bass is from that era, it was made at the time of peak demand for these basses, and as a result J.D had to resort to a bit of a " production line " approach to building them to keep up with the amount of orders they were getting . The unfortunate but almost inevitable consequence of that was that the overall quality and structural integrity of some basses ( but not all) was compromised, so be sure to check this bass over very carefully. The necks on thiese J.Ds are potentially a bit too prone to moving for a combination of reasons , specifically that they are made primarily of walnut , which tends to be much less stiff than maple, they are very slim in profile , and the truss rod design was also less than ideal. John Diggins acknowledges all these things with retrospect s, and has moved to put them all right in the basses he builds completely by hand nowadays. There was also, if I remember correctly, so problems with a batch of laquer that was unsuitable and caused a dodgy finish on a few basses, but it's a long time ago, so I could be getting a bit confused about that afer all this time . It was the 1980's at the time , you have to remember, and my brain was under constant assault from Stock, Aitken and Waterman records! I would very strongly recommend checking the bass over very carefully if you are interested in it . If it is a good example in good condition then it seems a reasonable price. They are still potentially very good basses.

Unlined ebony boards do indeed look beautiful.However, not much is more ugly l to listen to than an out-of-tune fretless bass player. I have seen a fair few in my time ,( especially back in the days when fretless was fashionable) , including one moderately well-known player I saw recently who will remain nameless who was particulaly bad , not least of because he thought he was particulaly good. He was playing a lined fretless, but he seemed to pay no attention to the lines because he thought he was good enough not to need to do so. He wasn't, and we got to suffer as a result. The truth is that very few people have good, solid intonation of fretless bass. It's a very difficult skill to aquire. Most people who tell you it's not that hard are not very critical of playing in-tune, because , unless you are gifted, it is hard.

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1387035593' post='2307653'] The Tony Franklin has a side dot at the first fret. Above the twelfth fret is more like playing a violin. Don't go there. [/quote] Do you know, I have played bass for well over 30 years, and I have just realised at this very moment that some basses have dots/blocks/ markers at the first fret...and some don't ! I have literally never noticed that before right here right now . Presumably, some unlined fretlesses have side dots at the first position and some don't.

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1387032695' post='2307617'] Strangely enough I have never had any difficulty playing unlined fretless basses..of which I have owned several. I must admit though that I find myself becoming bored playing fretless after several months, gravitate back to fretted...then once again long for another fretless. Fickle or what! [/quote] I have always gravitated towards lined fretless ,( mainly due to cowardice and an a lack of ability), but I expect if I was stuck on a desert island with nothing but an unlined fretless to amuse myself with ( unlikely scenario, I admit ) then I am sure I could get acclimatised to a plain board. I always find locating the proper position for the first and second fret a problem on an unlined bass. From the third fret to the twelfth I am relatively O.K , and then things get a bit tricky. When I got my first fretless bass , I was so naive that I thought because it had lines it would be just as easy as a fretted bass to play in tune. What a mistake. I remember spending the whole summer holidays trying to get to grips with the intonation . Back in those days it seemed like half the records in the Top 40 had fretless bass on them . Ah , those were the days...

[quote name='walbassist' timestamp='1387029013' post='2307564'] I've played an unlined fretless for almost every gig I've done over the last six years, so I think I'll be okay [/quote] O.K my friend, I didn't know that, it's good to know you won't be phased by one of these then . I'm not trying to be provocative in any negative or hostile way, it's just that I've seen a fair few wonky -sounding fretless players over the years and it's something I'm a bit paranoid about for myself . I remember what a shock it was when I got my first fretless how hard it was to play it in tune. Now , thirty years later, it's still a struggle! I'm getting up to speed a bit with it now, though, but, for me, it's always a stretch.

Generally speaking, basses sound best with the volume knob on full. It depends slightly on impedence and whether the bass is active ect, but on the whole you get the best sound with the volume on full , especially on a passive bass. On active basses , in practise, you can usually turn the volume control down a bit if neccesary, usually to compensate for any apparent increases in volume caused by cranking the active EQ, without much apparent degradation of the overall tone . As far as I know, though, lowering the volume on a high output bass will sound like a high output bass with the volume turned down , rather than like the allegedly less -compressed sound of a lower output pickup.

I know I might be playing devils advocate to some extent asking this question , but are you sure you can handle an unlined fretless board? Are you an experienced fretless player ? I've been playing some fretless lately after a long layoff from it , and I am [u][i]extremely[/i] [/u]grateful for the fret lines on my bass for a variety of reasons. I nearly bought an unlined bass, but I realise now that would have been a mistake . These look like lovely basses , but that lovliness would be negated if you can't play it in tune properly. Not much sounds worse than out-of-tune fretless playing.

[quote name='The Admiral' timestamp='1387013845' post='2307379'] And sometimes forgotten that he is also the primary lyricist in the band. And there's some great video here of the man in action. The second video clip has Zakk Wylde playing some nice harmonica - multi talented guy! [url="http://loudwire.com/metal-greats-black-sabbath-geezer-butler-bass-player-live-concert/"]http://loudwire.com/...r-live-concert/[/url] [/quote] Geezer Butler's playing really shows that, contrary to popular myth, you don't need to use a pick and/or lots of distortion in your sound to cut through the mix in a heavy rock group. With the right tone and attack ( and really big amps) , you can make yourself heard just as well playing with your fingers. He's a devoted Aston Villa fan, too. I really can't say whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, but that is more to do with Villa's patchy form and years of underachievement than anything to do with Geezer. I can't help but notice , though, that it was around the time that Ron Saunder's formidable Villa side were conquering England and then Europe between 1980 and 1982 that , for my tastes, Geezer was playing at his best , too.

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1386958037' post='2306885'] Roland, that's extremely kind of you, many thanks. It looks like Bass Doc is going to be doing the work for me. At present this is going to include 1. New unlined ebony board with side lines at each fret 2. New PUPs (this is going to be a big issue......) 3. Restore as far as possible the facade of the bass to something like original I don't know how much Wenge costs but I am imagine it's not cheap so I'm very grateful and would like to take you up on it. If you won't take anything from me for it please let me bung a few quid at a charity of your choice? If ot's OK, I'll PM you once I've sorted everything with Howard? Many thanks. Now PUPs, what do you folk think? Here's some things to keep in mind 1. I was never a great fan of the Wal circuit or sound 2. I like passive instruments 3. I have a fretless Precision so there is little need for anything that sounds Precisiony! 4. One of my favourite fretless sounds was a Ric with very heavy nylon flats. Problem is, that did one sound and one sound only I was looking at things such as Darkstars and am keen to explore these [url="http://lhnborn.com/page3.htm"]http://lhnborn.com/page3.htm[/url], which sound lovely with flats (waiting for a soundclip with rounds). I'm also keen on some passive MM style humbuckers (although I'd also tempted to get an East circuit in there just in case!). I've contacted Paul at Wal re PUPs but I've yet to hear back (something that was pointed out to me earlier was that if Wal do the work the instrument will retain some authenticity, but I'm thinking a lot of work would be required to get it to that stage and I suspect that a new build would make more sense. There's also the real risk this bass could end up like Trigger's broom in Only Fools and Horses). I've also looked at Martin Simm's Super Quads which I have to say might be the safest bet all around, unfortunately they don't retro fit the Super 8 which I would have loved in this bass. Your thoughts on PUPs would be appreciated. I don't see this as a restoration project as much as an opportunity to build a unique bespoke instrument, albeit one with a vintage pedigree. Cheers Chris PS thanks again Roland! [/quote] Regarding the pickups, if you like the ( now very hard to get hold of) Dark Stars, have you considered the Hanson/Lakland Chi Sonics ? They are loosely based on the Dark Stars , but they sound slightly more open in the midrange , with a similar mixture of vintage warmth and hifi clarity to the sound , kind of a supercharged passive pickup. They are available in a number of case sizes, now including regular Jazz pickup size, so you could use the existing routes , or a humbucker sized casing in chrome or plastic if you prefer that look on a Wal body , and they sound unique. You can hear them on the audio samples page on the Lakland website and compare them to a regular Jazz pickup. The difference is very apparent. I love the Dark Stars , too, but they are changing hands for silly money now, and they can be difficult to adjust properly. It is a mystery to me why some major pickup manufacturer hasn't licensed the design and isn't knocking out a version of those pickups , because they would sell loads of them .

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1386959870' post='2306920'] Nice colour. [/quote] I don't like green basses as a rule, but that does indeed have a charm to it. The used to do a burst version of that geen , too, that Pete used to call "snotburst".

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1386930585' post='2306470'] I'd like to think it's Geezer playing even if he's duplicating someone else's lines. The other thing is that the general tone and feel of the basslines on Heaven & Hell are very similar to those on Mob Rules (although the slightly muddy production on MR makes the comparison difficult) and there's never been a suggestion that it's anyone other than Geezer on that album. [/quote] I tend to think it must be Geezer on Heaven and Hell for this exact same reason . I cannot believe anyone else but Geezer played on Mob Rules and stylistically the playing on the two albums is very similar.

[quote name='Skybone' timestamp='1386842464' post='2305139'] Remember watching the "Never Say Die" tour video on telly many moons ago (when we only had 4 channels), and he was knocking seven shades out of a Fireglo 4001, though my absolute favourite was the "Live in Paris" film from about 1970 (Paranoid tour?). Utter classic. Also remember reading a Guitar mag interview with Tony Iommi a few years back, and he said that Sabbath never had the need of a rhythm guitarist, "because Geezer filled those spaces with the bass". Awesome player and all round top bloke. [/quote] Apparently, Geezer had just aquired that Rickenbacker in a swap deal done that night backstage with Glenn Hughes for a Gibson Thunderbird and decided to do the gig with it.

I like the look ( and sound, from what I have heard on YT ect) ) of the Ric 4004. I would love to have a go on one. Maybe I would find it a bit more playable that a 4001/ 4003. I just love that clanky and agressive Rickenbacker -with- roundwounds sound. Nothing else will substitute for it. It's the sonic equivalent of a woman with red hair and a nice bottom . John Hall's supposedly "difficult" attitude wouldn't put me off actually buying a new Rickenbacker bass, but it had better be made right or he will be getting it back and on the end of my own "difficult" attitude.

[quote name='paulconnolly' timestamp='1386790926' post='2304673'] Plus ca change, [b]Dingus[/b], plus ca change. [/quote] I know, I know , Paul, but I've heard about people being introduced to the music of Iron Maiden by their [i]grandparents[/i] ! All my grandparents introduced me to was Nutalls Mintoes and the pain of haemorrhoids.

[quote name='paulconnolly' timestamp='1386789325' post='2304625'] Taking the boy to the Manchester gig next week. Way back in the arena so better take my opera glasses [/quote] You know the World has changed when dads take their kids to Black Sabbath concerts. My dad used to take me to crown green bowling.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1386583663' post='2301646'] I'm biased, I've been playing Lakland basses for 10 years, so I'd recommend them over the others on your list. I'd look at 55-01's and, if you want the up rated pickups and pre amp, the 55-02's. I believe there are some in the FS section. They are great playing and sounding instruments, a lot of bass for the money. [/quote] I've been playing a 44-02 over the last few days, and I can hardly believe what great basses these are for sensible money. The preamp and pickups are first-rate, all the hardware is top-class ( even the rubberised control knobs feel good to use) , and the overall sound is what you would expect from a bass in the £2000-3000 price range. They are so versatile that you never get bored with them , either. If you don't mind 35 inch scale, I'm sure the 55-02 would be another great choice. I like Lakland basses a lot, and in terms of bang for your buck or punch for your pound ( hey , I just made that up! I'm wasted round here , to be honest with you ) these 44 and 55 Series basses with those pickups and that preamp are unbeatable.

Geezer is indeed the guv'nor. What a fantastic player. His sound is always great, and his playing over the years has been an inspiration . Heaven And Hell and Mob Rules are my favourite albums for Geezers playing , but he is great on everything Sabbath have ever done . In fact, it was Geezer Butler and Geddy Lee that really inspired me to take up the bass, and I like to think that if by some amazing breakthrough in medical science Geezer and Geddy were able to have a child together then I would be that child.

I don't think Stuart is involved with Wal basses anymore , but he is still one of top guitar techs in the U.K. He worked for the luthier Roger Giffin before he was with Wal , and was a guitar tech for loads of touring bands going back to the 1970's , and he is still doing repairs for a few different shops, I think .

[quote name='EMG456' timestamp='1386719584' post='2303796'] Ha Dingus - you must've been there about the time I was down for the "fitting" for my 5 String Midi Bass. Pete showed me the almost finished neck of the 6 he was experimenting with - happy days. Can anyone remember the name of the guy who was doing the electronics and pickups at that time? As you say they were all nice people. Paul Herman took a fair amount of banter from Pete and the joke of the day was that his only job was to glue in the "boat" which was what they called the little black plastic piece that protects the body from errant truss rod adjustment keys! Now he's the main man. Cheers Ed [/quote] Hey Ed, if you still had that Wal MIDI bass now you could probably sell it to a collector and retire on the proceeds! They must be uber-rare now. They have got Pino's one for sale in The Gallery and it is upwards of five grand, I think. The other guy there at Electric Wood at that time was called Stuart, and he was from Sheffield or somewhere around that area, I seem to recollect. Definitely from up north. They also had a young lad with with long fair hair who was doing something with pickups in a vice, but he seemed to disappear and I don't remember speaking to him. Paul did the work on my wenge Wal that day, and we were chatting about Walton On Thames where I was spending quite a lot of time in those days . Paul is from Hersham right next door to Walton/Weybridge and we knew some of the same shops and pubs ect. Paul only doing the boats? They let him loose on my bass unsupervised ! I would ask for refund, but they didn't charge me anything. Actually , Paul already had a degree in instrument repair/building from the Guildhall School Of Music and previously to working for Wal had done repairs ect for a major guitar shop that I can't quite remember, but I think it was Chandler Guitars at Kew That must have been twenty years ago this coming spring . How did that happen? I've still got the same hairstyle. Thank God it's still fashionable!

My mate had that book back in the day. It had Good Times by Chic and Lessions In Love by Level 42 in it , I seem to remember. It must have tab as well as notation in it because neither myself or my pal can read music . Why anyone would pay $150 for it I cannot imagine . It's a perfectly good book , but I can't see why it would be so collectable.

It is if you go out looking like that.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1386705411' post='2303458'] Yep, and Jeff Lynne seems to have maintained that same 'perm and shades' look to this very day. I reckon it's just a disguise so he can take them off and walk the streets unmolested by rampant ELO fans. [/quote] Rampant ELO fans- yes , that must be a very real danger .

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1386705604' post='2303463'] That is what I call customer service. I contacted Wal via the written word (the internet was the stuff of sci-fi then) when I was a young man and they kindly sent me oodles of stuff...I bought my mk1 soon afterwards - I traded my Rick 4001 and put the rest on the never never. I literally did not drink, drive, copulate or socialise for six months to pay it up. Thanks very much for sharing your experience with us. [/quote] I too remember writing to Wal for a catalogue back in the days when computers were the preserve of kids who couldn't go out of the house because they were at too great a risk of being bullied. When I left school my main aim was to somehow get my hands on enough money to buy a Wal , but it took me quite a while to save up , from what I can remember, and they were no where near as expensive in those days, even allowing for inflation. I used to go look at the basses in the Bass Centre at Wapping and wonder how I could possibly wait another six months or a year to get my hands on one of the basses I lusted over. Nothing ( nothing) nowadays gets me so worked up. I wish I could get that excited over a bass nowadays, but I just can't, I'm afraid . I remember I had just saved up just enough to eventually buy one ( £790) and then they went up a hundred quid. I rang Pete to check it wasn't a misprint or something ( it wasn't) , and he sold me a bass at the old price a hundred quid cheaper anyway.