Dingus

[quote name='donkelley' timestamp='1382653112' post='2255201'] yes, but they all sound like a stingray... subtle differences aside, you can count on any color scheme or 2/3 band pre or type of string to still be the amazing stingray tone. I know that's a classic stingray design, natural with maple, but I personally am not a huge fan of the natural finish stingrays because they look like the gibson ripper knock off to me at first glance. Remember, the ripper came first - 3 years before the stingray... and the standard ripper finish was natural with maple fingerboard! another great, iconic, if VERY different... bass guitar. [/quote] Nowadays the Ripper is recognised for being a terriffic sounding bass , quite rightly so , but at the time it sold relatively poorly and was not well thought of by bass players , on the whole . The reputation and desirability these basses now have is very much something they have aquired relatively recently.Ironically enough , these basses found favour with post-grunge era bass players because they were cheap because no one wanted these big , ungainly and very heavy bassses. They had one in a shop I used to frequent in the late 1980's literally for years with no interest whatsoever. . They once offered to sell me it for £90 and mince and onion pie from the shop down the street , so pessemistic were they that anyone would ever buy it . Did I buy it ? Did I f*** . It is a long history of similaly fateful bad decisions that have kept me poor.

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1383811441' post='2269286'] Today i was told by a wet behind the ears assistant MD (that's assistant to the MD) that fretless is no good in rocking songs. It's ok if you put chorus on it in chilled out tunes but not in rock. I've been playing as long as this guy has been alive. The guitarist left the room as he thought i was going to go nuclear. i had to bite my tongue as i didn't know if it had come from the MD. It hadn't. He even told the guitarist to try putting some pick scrapes into is playing. The guitar player has been the player for every big version of this show in th UK for 11 yrs. I think this kid thinks he is co MD not assistant to. Today should be interesting! Am i wrong? Am i being precious? or is it a naive, ill informed basic cliched thought? [/quote] I think you are dead right , but if this is your living then I would recommend just doing what this annoying individual tells you and keep biting your tongue . Let's face it , in every job there seems to be someone who's reason for being is to irritate everybody else. I know that even the top session players in the World on occasion have to endure record producers and artists telling them what's what when in fact they don't know their arse from their elbow when it comes to bass , but if you are a professional you just have to see it as part of the job . If I were you I would agree enthusistically with this young man and thank him for his sage advice. And wait for your paycheck .

[quote name='Chiliwailer' timestamp='1383841922' post='2269884'] I liked the quotes about the value of a vintage when bought new compared to today's inflation adjustment. [size=4][size=5][u][b]BUT THIS IS WHERE IT HURTS....... [/b][/u][/size]I[/size]t's not about the 'cost in 1962 versus cost in 2013' that gives me sleepless nights. It's the fact that:[list] [*]In 1999 a shop I worked in sold a 1957 Strat for £5000, they now go for £18,000 plus [*]In 1999 I could have bought a 1958 Precision for £3500, they now sell for double that [*]In 1993 a shop I worked in sold a TV Yellow Les Paul Junior for £1000, now they are at least 7 times that [*]In 2004 I bought a refinished 1964 Jazz Bass for £2200, they can now often sell for double that [*]In 2006 a shop I worked in sold a blonde 1961 Stack Knob Jazz for £10,000, it then sold again at another shop I worked in for £18000 3 years later [/list] These are just a few examples. Sleep tight. [/quote] It's not just vintage Fenders either . If I think about all the basses I have ever owned ,if I had kept them all , I could sell all of them now for more in real terms than payed for them , allowing for inflation .

I had my hair like this at the time , too, I am sorry to say . It was wrong then , and it's still wrong now.

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1383833764' post='2269748'] I don't think it's become dated Dingus. Just that modern pop music tends to mix bass in the background almost like an orchestral approach - and that soft pillowy ampeg and P bass with flats playing root notes in the background can be heard (well just about) quite often. Ironically this was just the sort of thing Jaco allegedly liberated bass players from. I have to say I don't remember the last time I heard a decent bass hook on a modern recording - or perhaps the bass is too quiet ........ Or my ears are shot!! Many famous songs use bass hooks but it now seems such an approach is not as welcome. [/quote] Dead right , Dr T. If you listened to the records from the Top 40 from this week exactly thirty years ago and compared it to the chart from the present day , you would be shocked at how prominent the bass guitar was back then in relation to now . The role of the bass guitar on pop records has indeed changed dramatically , and I preferred it back then . I remember regulaly getting excited about bass lines I heard on chart records in those days , whereas nowadays that is a rare occurence . Admittedly , I probably don't hear as much chart music as I did back then , but nevertheless, I am confident it is the music that has changed , not me. In the '80's teen bands like Duran Duran and Culture Club had excellent bass players, as did many pop groups like UB40 , and post -new wave rock groups like The Police ,The Pretenders , The Smiths and The Cure also had a lot of importance placed on the bass guitar in their music . Where are their modern equivalents?

[quote name='Chris Sharman' timestamp='1383818083' post='2269403'] What would Tony Franklin say? [/quote] He'd probably say " F*** me , did I really have my hair like that ? !!!"

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1383824970' post='2269552'] I guess if you work in advertising its easy to assume that everyone is lying about everything all the time [/quote] If you work in politics or professional football it is easy ( and probably best) to assume the same thing, too.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1383831986' post='2269712'] You mean stale nicotine and man sweat.... yuck! Give me new bass smell any day. [/quote] Another vote for new bass smell here . The glue is usually still fresh in the case and you get a much better buzz from it .

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1383831915' post='2269709'] I bought my Status series II brand new in 1986 because of it's modern sound and styling (among other things). It is rapidly approaching its 30th anniversary but still sounds as modern as it did in 1986. When it is a "vintage" instrument (does the 30 year old thing apply to instruments as well as cars?) it will still sound modern. I have no idea what I am trying to say here, but just thought I would chuck it into the general discussion. [/quote] Yes, ironically enough, that "modern" bass sound has become very dated . To sound contemporary nowadays you would need to use an old P Bass with flats on . I never thought I would see the day, but there you go...

Regarding the historic worth and relative cost of Fender basses , it's worth remembering for a moment that back in the '60's and '70's electric guitars ( and basses) were far more revered and valuable objects than they are now . Firstly , as we have already established , they were proportionately more expensive , but also they were considered the working tools of social revolution . The Worls has moved on since then and teenage 70's rock fans are now well into their fifties . As a case in point, I was reading a post on Basschat a while ago and a young member talked about his grandparents being Iron Maiden fans (!) . That didn't happen in those days . The generations were clearly divided along musical lines. Rock music was (perhaps naively ) condsidered a sonic assault on the establishment , and music made on electric instruments was what was going to stir the Worlds youth into action . It sounds daft now , mainly because it was, but at the time a lot of people believed it. Nowadays it seems like every teenager has got a Fender leaning against the wall in the corner of their bedroom for when they feel like putting on some eyeliner and pretending to be one of Blink 182 or similar, where as in my day, guitars were much more special things to own . Most people had copies rather than the real thing , and even the copies were a great novelty . If you had a real Fender/Gibson/Rickenbacker you were a local celebrity, to some extent.

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1383822205' post='2269485'] University drop-out, lol. I was studying law at UCL but moved into in a flat with Billy Idol (he moved next door as I arrived but was a regular visitor), a stripper / nude model and a fairly high level illicit substance dealer. She said she thought I was perfectly suited to work in advertising. . . [/quote] Never were more true words written on Basschat !

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1383773280' post='2269044'] My all time favourite British bassist, the great Welsh fretless genius Percy Jones. Ground breaking, innovative, unique...even Jaco was blown away when he overheard Percy practicing! [/quote] Anthony Jackson has also gone on record as saying that he rates Percy Jones as one of the very best fretless players out there , and that he is one of the few who isn't deriavtive of Jaco to one extent or another.

I would venture that a big part of what is missing on more recent Rush albums is the extra colour and texture Geddy's keyboard playing gave the band in there heyday .Those synthesisers were far more important to the band's sound than most people think , including Rush themselves in all likelihood . On their albums in the late '70's/ early '80's part of what was so brilliant was they wayu that Geddys bass dropped in and out of the music around the keyboard parts . He may have done so out of neccessity in considering how to perform some of those songs live , but it all added to the dynamics of the music overall , and if there was a bass player who knew how to make an entrance in a song then surely it is Geddy Lee. Even today over thirty years adfter hearing it for the first time , the way the bass comes in for the chorus on Subdivisions gives me a thrill which I can only describe as almost sexual . Tom Sawyer is another great example of this , and also The Big Money from Power Windows . Geddy needs to ditch that tired old Sans Amp/Jazz Bass combo for recording and play a different bass through a vintage Ampeg SVT rig that has been salvaged from a public toilet somewhere in Eastern Europe . He used to be able to take us all by surprise with his gear choices , but for twenty years now he has taken the safe route . He could do with changing his hairstyle too , which is also now 20+ years old . I vote for the back cover of Grace Under Pressure-era mullet to make a comeback . If one of the Kings Of Leon was rocking a hairstyle like that then everyone would say how cool it was in a post modern ironic way and everyone would follow suit . Geddy Lee should have the same gravitas. I regulaly dream about Geddy Lee at night ( not in a sexual way , that stopped ages ago) , but when I wake up in the morning I can never remember any of the advice he gives me. Next time it happens I am going to ask him if he still has that Steinberger and steer him towards using it again .

Larry Klein , Mark Egan and Jimmy Haslip all deserve a mention . All three are great fretted and fretless players.

Just been watching this lot on YT. What makes this lot stand out out over any school band that in my day you could see playing at a youth club on a Monday night for 50 pence is largely in someone's imagination .

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1383747071' post='2268471'] Just a have look back at what you've posted... You all sound like my dad complaining about the music I listened to back in the 70s. What a bunchy of grumpy old farts! No wonder rock/pop music is in such bad shape... [/quote] That's the uncomfortable truth, though . For the most part , your dad was right . Most dads usually are right.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1383669600' post='2267378'] On the other hand, having no control over things can sometimes be less stressful: [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulcers_in_Executive_Monkeys"]http://en.wikipedia....ecutive_Monkeys[/url] But I digress . . . [/quote] I am that monkey.

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1383660705' post='2267203'] I meant as in, hopefully come to an agreemenaggressivethe neighbours. I only realistically want to have it on a little maybe one day a week, so I don't think I'm being unreasonable. I only looked up building regulations or whatever they are as I don't think this building meets any standard there may be, just from past experience, and how much 'ambient' noise from them we hear too. I'm not out looking to justify having it on loud (which it isnt at all) and I also don't want to be breaking any laws unknowingly either. I've had the surround sound on louder and for longer periods so I'm a little perplexed at the complaint. Which was just for loud guitar. A few of the comments here feel as though they are in the vein of 'put and shut up'. Which is fair enough. I am not able to hear myself from their perspective, but it's far more annoying that I have to listen to music through headphones to block out the snoring at night than it is to listen to someone play guitar once in a blue moon. I was hoping for advice and I got some. Not what I was expecting but thanks all the same. [/quote] I don't think you are being unreasonable, my friend , but I and many others are just trying to make the point that in the real world , it can be more about perception than reality . In the minds of most non-musiciuans , guitar + amp equals loud and annoying , regardless of the actual volume level . What this neighbour is complaining about is not that you are playing too loud , but rather [u][i]he is complaining about the fact that he can hear you at all [/i][/u]. It may well be that this chap is being obnoxious in the manner that he is complaining , but the hard fact is that if it comes down to a dispute that a third party has to get involved in then in all likelihood he will be the winner , not you . The suggestion that you approach this fella in a friendly manner and try to explain your point of view and ask his permission to have some limited playing time which he can veto by knocking on the wall or phoning you if he is too put out by it at any particular time is a very good idea , and probably your best chance of getting what you want . In terms of manipulating this bloke to your own ends , there is a huge psychological difference between being subjected to something you are in control of ( noise from your bass in this instance) and being forced to endure something you have no power to stop.

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1383659620' post='2267175'] You must send us a link to your Bass Player Magazine cover article: [color=#4D4D4D][font=Gudea][size=5]And other interviews of course: "Juan Alderete is a name that requires little introduction...[/size][/font][/color] [center][/center] [color=#4D4D4D][font=Gudea][size=5]Long time effects champion and bass player with Big Sir, Racer X & The Mars Volta to name but a few, Juan has scored his name among the bass elite during his varied career. His approach to using effects to create textures within music has been the subject of more discussion than almost any other bass player, with forums literally covered in threads dedicated to his set up. Thankfully Juan is more than happy to share his knowledge with everyone, recently starting his own website and forum dedicated to discussing pedals and how to use them."[/size][/font][/color] [/quote] I really rate Juan Aldarete as a bass player - I remember seeing him tearing it up in the early '90's in a band called The Scream - and I am always interested in what he has got to say about anything to do with playing the bass . Just to put the other side of the argument for people to consider though, I read an interview with Joe Osborn where he said that the recorded tone of his signature Lakland bass was indistinuishable to that from his 1960 prototype Fender Jazz that he had built his career on , and that the Lakland had other qualities in terms of consistancy that made it preferable to his old Fender . I know that nowadays since his split from Lakland Joe is playing a fairly straightforward Jazz Bass with a maple fingerboard made for him by the Fender Custom Shop . This is not meant as any kind of riposte or challenge to you , Barrie, but as a tool to use , are vintage Fenders really that preferable to a new equivalent ? I love old Fenders in much the same way that I love old cars , but in just the same way , I am enough aware of the pitfalls to decide that owning one is no longer for me . Probably ...

Reluctant as I am to become embroiled in another "are vintage Fenders better" debate , I have owned both new and numerous vintage Fenders myself , and I certainly think that a good new Fender sounds far similar to an old one than most people seem to think , but at the same time , the old ones definitely do sound a bit different . In my own experience , I would say that the difference is overwhelmingly due to the changes in the pickups rather than the wood , and I say that because whatever the preceivable differences in tone due to the aging of the wood, they are relatively insignificant in comparison to the changes in how these basses sound as the pickups degrade . Back in the 1980's I used to wonder why I preferred the sound of early '70's Jazz Basses to early '60's ones , but now I realise it was because the pickups were usually in better shape, and now most of the early '70's ones I play have started to sound as thin and microphonic as many early '60's ones had begun to back then . So many old Fender basses pickups start to sound lousy after thirty years or so . Not all of them by any means , but what seems like a very large proportion to me . Some seem to manage to keep a decent tone and output and have a pleasant warmth that they may or may not have had when they were new , but in a great many instances , they just sound knackered to me . If someone has a good example then great , but they are getting to be few and far between . I have played a number of very expensive vintage Jazz Basses offered for sale that if I had heard played in a blindfold test I would have thought cost less than two hundred quid from Argos, no exaggeration . It has to be said , I've played one or two very good ones, too , but I still wouldnt pay upwards of five or six grand for them . I could get a very similar sound from a more robust bass at a fraction of that price , and so that is what I chose to do . Others may choose to do different , and good luck to them . Vintage Precision pickups seem far less prone to going wonky , but it still happens . I know pickups can be rewound and otherwise repaired , but that would seem to undermine the vintage credentials of the bass if , as is claimed , it is the changing of the sound of the pickups over time that enhances the tone of these basses. It's also important to consider that there is a significant difference between sounding different and sounding better . It would be perfectly valid if someone were to prefer the tone of a new Fender Bass over an old one .

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1383658218' post='2267127'] Yes, but it was Kings Lynn. [/quote] True .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asM056FLmg0