Dingus

Do I like it ? Do I actually really want it ? Will I use it? Will it cause baldness?

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1382616183' post='2254420'] I do agree, and this 'cheap bag' also applies to high end basses and guitars as well. I agree with Dingus though that the earlier Skyline basses made Fender 'up' their QC (and recently I've seen that it is back down again!). I've played one of the new MP Made in China Fender Starcasters and the QC was perfect....mental. I personally think the latest Warwick's (German manufactured) are overpriced. They were £1500 or so a year or two back, now they are about £1000-1500 more! [/quote] Wow , Warwick . I'd completely forgotten about them ! Overpriced ? That word doesn't really do justice to the kind of money that Warwick are asking for some of their German-made basses nowadays . Sometimes I look at their pricelist to reassure myself that their are at least some other people in this World who are as detatched from reality as myself . Their basses are literally twice the price of what I humbly think they ought to cost for what you are actually getting . Nice basses, but mental .

This whole" paying for the cost of being made in NYC " thing is a complete red herring , to be honest with you . Do you honestly think that if Fodera basses were made in rural Idaho or somewhere similar that the final retail price to the customer would be any different ? The reality is that the NYC location probably impacts far more on Fodera's profit margin than on the sale price to the customer . Furthermore , a significant part of what makes those basses what they are is the interaction the company is able to have with New York's top players and the feedback they get from them .

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1382600600' post='2254065'] There won't be any "Jaco action" going on anyway - it's got frets. [/quote] Actually , Jaco played a fretted bass quite a lot of the time , despite his reputation as a fretless maestro, and a lot of track people think he is playing fretless on , like Teen Town for example , are in fact fretted bass.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1382615032' post='2254392'] how would you try and describe the sound to someone? it's not a P bass, it's a little more like my warwick streamer, but very different [/quote] I would say that the sound has got a very strong midrange fundamental to it and has very extended frequency range compared to a Fender i.e the treble extends further and the bass goes deeper , so you could say that compared to a Fender , it's just got more of everything . The Yamaha sounds a lot more modern than a Fender by virtue of the laminated neck-thru construction and chunkier bridge , but it's still got plenty of Precision- like.growl to get it placed just right in the mix . The reverse P pickup probably helps a bit with that , too . The BB1200 is a lot less muted-sounding that a typical Fender , with much more sustain and a wider "ping" of overtones to the note. Imagine what a revelation that sound was in 1977 nwhen the choice for most bass players was between a bog standard Precision , Jazz Bass or Rickenbacker ( if they were lucky) . Bear in mind that this bass of yours was taking on the market at exactly the same time as the then brand new Music Man Stingray , so exciting times to be a bass player in 1977 , no doubt . You may be interested to know that , if I recall correctly, that Yamaha were so keen to make a big impression with the first production run of these BB basses that were allocated to the North American market that , rather than just send them from Japan to their U.S distributor , they were instead shipped to Alembic, the most revered guitar builders in the World at that time ( and probably still are now) to be given a final check-over and setup . The resultant uber-Yamaha's were then presented to , among others, the cream of California's bass musos who took to the immidiately and Yamaha's reputation for making great basses was established . Players like Lee Sklar , Jimmy Haslip , Larry Klein , Verdine White and Abraham Laboriel ( to name but a few ) adopted Yamaha basses and used then to great effect on loads of records from that era ( I can tell you which ones if you are interested . ) Like so many Japanese companies of the time , Yamaha had a long -term plan to establish themselves a major force in their chosen market and were willing to invest time, money and effort in achieving that goal . Like so many other Japanese business modelsin other industries , it worked, Not so long after these basses were introduced , Yamaha introduced its; PB1 bass preamp , and if you ever get a chance to buy one of them cheap I would grab it with both hands . They were relatively affordable , beautifully made and had one of the best sounds of any bass preamps I have ever heard right up to to the present day . A monumentally good piece of kit , but you don't see that many about secondhand, for some reason . One of the best bass guitar -orientated products ever , I have got my own conspiracy theory that it was discontinued because it was too good and made most other companies products look like a waste of money by comparison . A lost classic that will still beat most of the competition hands down , no doubt .

[quote name='Colonel36' timestamp='1382550507' post='2253578'] It's driving me mad now. [/quote] ...and me too. I recongnised it right away , but just can't place it . Hopefully someone will be along soon who does know.

Well done , Luke , you have got yourself a very usable vintage bass there for a great price , by the sound of it . These basses are what I would describe as a congnicenti's choice in so much as they might not appear particulaly glamorous to some folks , but to people in the know they are a classic bass with a prestigious history . A lot of top players used these in the late'70s/ early '80's , and for a good reason . They are well-made and fabulous sounding basses, and I'm not surprised that you are shocked at how different the tone is to a Fender Precision . The only real similarity is the style of pickup and its placement . Yamaha basses of this era have their own distinctive sound , and it's a great sound . I hope you get a good few years playing pleasure out of this one .

When you say there is no difference , do you really mean[i] no difference at all [/i]or not as much difference as you would ideally like ? If that knob literally does nothing then something is wrong , but if all it does is roll off the highs and make the bass sound progressively more wooly then that is what it is supposed to do , and I wouldnt expect too much from it . The post -2008 AM St Fenders are fine basses just as they are , and I would seriously think twice before I started pissing about with changing capacitors ect. You might make it sound a little bit different , but you won't neccesarilly end up making it sound better. Precision Basses are not renown for their broad tonal palette , and ( providing it is working correctly) I would recommend trying to enjoy the bass for what it is, i.e a perfectly good P Bass with that characteristic sound we all know and love . If you want more variety of tone from it try experimenting with the E.Q on your amp , or even adding an external preamp if that isn't sufficient .

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1382443806' post='2252150'] Thanks for all that, much appreciated... A Ray I heard someone playing the other day was a 3EQ model, is the sound of the 2EQ radically different? Think I'm going to get one, there is a nice looking black one on the marketplace for what looks like a fair price... Rob [/quote] [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1382444804' post='2252166'] Not massively different. The low and highs are less 'extreme' on the 3EQ...I think the bass is set at a lower frequency on the 2 EQ, and the 2 EQ's just seem to sizzle more, but also have this organic inherent fatness that is just brilliant to hear. The 3EQ is the same tone; only Ray enthusiasts could tell the difference! What I like on the 3EQ is obviously the mids, which with say a dual pickup bass like a HH or HS, leads to many many different tones as well as the classic Ray tone. As we all know, every bass will sound different due to wood/strings/pickup winding etc...none are identical. The last HH I sold (to get a 5HH) had such a wonderful bridge humbucker....it was one of those moments when I first heard it of 'that's THE tone'....plus it had 4 other pickup positions! If you opt for a 3EQ, try a dual pup bass as well! Then try a Bongo...totally odd instrument but boutique quality and stunning electronics/ergonomics. I sound like a fanboy, and I guess I am, and I have not always had 100% smooth runnings with EBMM's (probably because I have had a LOT) but it never ever stops me realising they are my favourite bass guitars... The last two I bought were just absolutely perfect. In fact, this makes me want a single H Bongo now....ARGHHHH! [/quote] Just to endorse what Gareth has said here , I really wouldn't get too hung up about the sonic difference between a two and three band Stingray , or indeed over the differences between a pre and post Ernie Ball model . They all sound far more similar than they do different , if you see what I mean . That Stingray tone is so distinctive that , even if there are slight timberal differences between different models , what comes out of your speakers will still sound like a Stingray , no matter which you end up choosing. If you enjoy the sound of a Stingray then I too would recommend checking out the Bongo . It's a hotrod of a bass guitar with all the punch of a Stingray but a bit more defined and articulate midrange that seems to get you heard a bit better than the 'Ray. The sound is 100% Music Man but with a definite 21st Century spin on it that can be addictive. I like the HH model best, but all configurations are terriffic. Highly recommended.

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1382439144' post='2252076'] IMO Penguin have damaged their integrity by publishing this as a "classic". Or are good sports going along with the joke, I can't decide which. [/quote] No , Penguine have damaged their reputation within the world of publishing by participating in this stunt, or "these stunts " if you subscribe to the idea that Morrisey pulling publication at the last minute a few weeks ago was part of a cynical attempt to drum up publicity for the eventual release . Publishers are desperate for sales, just like everybody else nowadays, and Penguin have compromised their editorial standards in the hope of maximising profits.

I like Morrisey as an entity , although his music since leavingThe Smiths has , lets face it been a bit crap by comparison to that monumental band . Maybe writing is the way for him to go from now on . Instead of the big furore that has preceded this publication in Penguine Classics though, I would have much preferred to see this fascinating account of his life serialised in the pages of Razzle magazine or some similar publication , with Morrisey revealing all kinds of hitherto -unkown salacious details about his personal life , maybe with an incident involving a"bonding session " with Jimmy Saville, Jeanette Krankie, a couple of Top Of The Pops audience members and a BBC dressing room and similar shennanigans from throughout his supposedly celibate past. Let's face it , if any other celebrity had insisted that their autobiography had to be published in Penguine Classics we would all ( including Morrisey) be saying what a w***er they were. Morrisey has built his career on behaving like a tosser but not quite being one, but he is treading an increasingly fine line. I still can't help but like the guy, though, and I look forward to reading the book.

[quote name='rhythmbug' timestamp='1382309830' post='2250579'] Alrighty then, the demo track is done. Cow bass at 3:57 mins. Another bass nerd item of interest, twin bass (lead and rhythm) at 2:32 mins. Wasn't my intention but my guitarist didn't learn the part in time [url="https://soundcloud.com/loscrujientes/room-3"]https://soundcloud.c...ujientes/room-3[/url] [/quote] I've just had a listen to this track and, having seen Les and Primus play on numerous occasions back in the days of Pork Soda and the few years leading up to that point , I can honestly say that they were never as good as this demo you have put together here . Very impressive indeed.

[quote name='Ziphoblat' timestamp='1382392146' post='2251731'] I don't dispute the value of Laklands. They were just an example, I could list plenty of other brands. Warwick would be a good one. I've seen some pretty shoddy examples of QC on the Skyline models; now I'm sure that's an exception, and if you get a good one then it's a damn good bass, but really the same applies to Fender. Except it's made in the USA, and comes in a great case which is itself worth £150. Fender just seem to get targeted for this a lot and I really can't understand why as there are plenty of other brands that offer instruments which are equal or worse (on paper here, which is of course all we can refer to for a discussion like this) for the same price. [/quote] You are right on all these points. The plain truth is that most bass makers talk a good game when it comes to the quality of their products, but in reality how many brands can you think of where you are confident of getting a good example in the case of every instrument ? Ernie Ball Musicman are pretty good in that respect, , as are Warwick , but there are still plenty of duds . Fender are hit and miss , and so are most of the others . I suppose with the value for money stakes between Fender and Lakland Skyline , with the Fender you get a nice case , but the Laklands are PLEKKED and have arguably superior hardware , pickups and electronics, so potential buyers have to weigh that up and make a choice . I like both , so it's hard for me to come down on either side of the fence .

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1382378549' post='2251493'] Koa Eagle would be nice, though. Now I have the cash, you never see them! [/quote] You can pick up the koa Eagles in the States for sensible money if you keep your eyes open . Those basses were made to last , so most of them have survived the last thirty or so years , but the electrics usually need a bit of a service ( as well as a PhD in electronic engineering to be able to understand them . ) I saw a pair of all original , fairly good condition Eagles , 78 koa and 79 maple respectively, for $1100 each in Atlanta last year.

I've just been having a closer look at that pic, and it looks like that bass has got a very beautifully figured rosewood fingerboard , too . That mint pickguard makes it for me, though . Looks better than tort on that bass .

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1382375737' post='2251430'] Oh, and welcome back to the forum Anne Marie. [/quote] I told you to call me "Dave " when we're out in public .

[quote name='Ziphoblat' timestamp='1382330838' post='2250632'] So how about a Lakland? Mass produced in Asia instead of the USA, shoved in a sh*t gig-bag with nothing in it, same price. But I suppose it isn't as cool to bash a bass that isn't made by Fender. Not to single Lakland out, there are plenty of other companies that are the same, the mind just boggles at how regularly Fender get singled out for their prices when you look at the number of companies selling Asian made products in crap cases for the same price, if not more at times. [/quote] Lakland Skylines stopped shipping with gigbags a few years ago now to try and keep the prices down . I suppose the justification for the prices ( and the whole reason for the existance of) of Lakland Skyline basses is that they are a budget version of a much more expensive bass i.e a U.S.A-made Lakland . Only the basic assembley of the neck and body is done in Asia , with all the rest of the electronics and fretwork being done in Chicago , so they are not to be dismissed as being made in the Far East and therefor a rip off . They also ( except for the very cheapest models ) have the same pickups and electronics as the U.S.A models which are much more upmarket and expensive than regular U.S.A Fenders . If you understand that U.S.A Laklands are the equivalent of Master Built Custom Shop Fenders then , in light of that, it's not unreasonable to price the Skylines at the point they sell for . There are many happy Skyline owners who sing the praises of their basses and who choose them over a U.S.A Fender. I think the current U.S.A Fenders are very good and I like them a lot ( I love Fender basses , so I'm more than a bit prejudiced) but the Skylines were a major factor in forcing Fender to up their game and improve their designs post-2008 . The Laklands are a viable alternative to U.S.A Fenders , and some might say they are even a viable alternative to U.S.A Laklands , given how good the sound and playabiity can be on a good Skyline.

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1382367189' post='2251259'] Nodody likes a show off. [/quote] No one like me and I haven't even won a bass . Congratulations ! What a fab bass to win , too . Are you contractually obligated to put Rotos on it? Love the colour scheme . Brian Wilson used one just like this with The Beach Boys .

[quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1382372395' post='2251380'] So you can get a 2024 in the same colour and she'll never know. [/quote] Brilliant/devious.

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1382305125' post='2250535'] In much the same boat, with my BC Rich Eagle. Would love a year-of-birth Mockingbird, mind. That would probably be my wallet-burster. [/quote] If you ever think about actually buying a Mockingbird, Gus, I would strongly recommend trying it on a strap before you part with any money . In my experience , they are one of the most badly balanced and uncomfortable basses ever. You are much better off with your Eagle in terms of playability . A Mockingbird does look amazing , though .

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1382300235' post='2250440'] I'm very happy with what I've got, but I'd quite like a 1963 P Bass, sunburst/tort/rosewood. All original w/case. Clay dots, etc. etc. Even though I don't like sunburst. Or tort. Or rosewood... and an Ampeg SVT CL/Classic 8X10. And someone to carry it all. See? If money was no object I'd be wasting it left right and centre. [/quote] A few years ago I went out with the money in my pocket to buy exactly what you describe as the ultimate P Bass , and eventually came home with an straight out of the box 2009 American Standard Precision Bass and most of my money still intact , because I thought the new bass was better all round . I'd still love an SVT rig , though, preferably a vintage one that breaks down all the time .

Reading this thread with great interest , I have owned and got rid of due to lack of enchantment ( or indeed still own) a fair few of these ultimate money-no-object basses folks are mentioning . I am still miserable. I hope this offers all of you some small consolation .

Does indeed look like a Tune. The were high quality basses that had a certain profile in the Far East in the early 1990's , and a few started to filter over here as word spread about how giood they were . I seem to remember that had a couple in the Bass Centre at Wapping and Graham from Wet Wet Wet bought a fretless one , if I recall correctly . I think these basses must be where Bass Collection licensed their designs from .

Another big Frank fan here . Not just a superb guitarist but a complex and extraordinarily talented songwriter , too . Always interested to hear what the man is doing , so thanks for letting me know about this.

I think you can insure musical instruments shipped with Parcelforce for more than £1000 , but not if you book the shipment directly from Parcelforce. I could be wrong about this, so anyone thinking of shipping something please do check , but if you book a service via one of the cut-price shipping agencies that use Parcel Force as one of their carriers then in some instances you can insure a musical instrument for extra value but I think the significant difference is that the insurance is provided by the shipping agency's insurance brokers and not the usual cover offered by Parcelforce. As I have just said, [u] please check [/u]if you thinking about using their service , not least of all because cover available will vary from one agency to another , but I seem to remember from past experience that this is the case.