Dingus

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1382341296' post='2250696'] they are all well looked after, washed and ironed etc regularly, and they look fine. [/quote] Wife.

[quote name='rodacademy' timestamp='1382277273' post='2249935'] But....if you really needed it, veg can be chopped on the floor! [/quote] This is actually a brilliant point that could be extended further . In the unlikely event that Mrs Dingus were ever to question one of my purchases I would point out to her that women in the Developing World manage perfectly well cooking and washing in little more than primative hovels with dirt floors whilst improvising kitchens from old oil cans and bits of plastic tarpaulin left over from local mineral mining industies . yet they still manage to provide tasty and nutritious exotic food for their families . This brings into question the need for expensive designer kitchens and fancy utensils that most women covet , and in fact if Mrs D were to adopt the lifestyle model I have outlined here she would probably be the envy of every woman in Islington and set a trend they would no doubt follow . I would also point out to her that there is no evidence that the men in those same societies have been forced to compromise the quality of the bass guitars they are using to create the indiginous ethnic music of the region . Culture has to be the number one priority . Case closed . Mrs Dingus would never dream of questioning what I buy because she sees me as an authority figure . She doesn't question what I spend in the same way that the people of North Korea don't question the national defense budget . It's a cliche that often gets trotted out that good relationships are built on trust , but in fact more often than not the reality is that they are built on a mixture of fear and gratitude . Mrs Dingus wakes up every morning with the knowledge that she has managed to hook a man for herself who is way, way out of her league , and that she is the envy of all her trashy jet set friends . She is living the dream , and so a few basses here and there doesn't even really register when her overwhelming concern is to keep hold of her trophy partner and keep that dream alive , no matter what it takes .

I can vividly recall the day I got my first Trace Elliot amp and how it was streets ahead of anything else I had tried or owned . Looking back now , when I was seventeen I had an Ibanez Musician Bass , a Trace Elliiot amp and a dodgy mullet haircut, and that's all you really need in life , (apart from sex , and they had that in the '80's too and it was far more exciting than nowadays ).

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1382200881' post='2249254'] Beats me, seems an awful lot to remember, lots of fast little licks and fills...would fry my head [/quote] Exactly ! This is a difficult line to learn properly , and watching this guy has made me realise it's even harder that I thought . The way Neil Murray interprets the chorus is absolutely brilliant and a bit daunting to try and replicate by ear . I try and console myself with the fact that Neil is very tall and therefore at a great advantage in these things.

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1382196110' post='2249166'] ................ [/quote] I rest my case.

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1382194302' post='2249142'] ..... .......... [/quote] [quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1382194302' post='2249142'] ..... .......... [/quote] As usual , your manners betray your true intention . Your the one who brought up time zones . I never said that you hadn't played a Fodera. I questioned [u]HOW MANY [/u] you had played. You say you've played a lot of Foderas in the States -fair enough . I 've spent a lot of time in the States , too , and the only place I've come across a lot of Foderas is in Vinnie Fodera's workshop or at the NAAM show , so presumably that is where you encountered all these basses too . You are indeed denigrating Fodera basses in way in which I am not , and I would explain to you why that is if it were not for the fact that I am sure the subtleties of the English language would be wasted on someone of such definite "opinions" as yourself. You imply in your post that they are a choice for players less informed than yourself . Thank you for your hilarious suggestion that I need reading glasses . May I suggest to you in the same humorous and friendly manner that it is better to need reading glasses than reading lessons , as you seem to be in need of .

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1382192034' post='2249108'] Not everyone is in the same time zone as you mate. : ) Another thing you're wrong about (and it cracks me up how people make these assumptions) is that I OBVIOUSLY have no knowledge of Fodera's! lol !!! You're wrong again. I owned one. I kept trying to convince myself it was the Rolls Royce of basses but it just didn't cut it. The final nail in the coffin is when I was hired to play a bass part, (via email mp3's) and used the Fodera and the client came back asking if I could get a thicker sound. I added more lows -- he still didn't like it. Then I recorded the part with a Squier J Deluxe. His reaction? THAT'S IT! He was right. It simply sounded better. That's when I realized, if I don't like the sound, or the look, it doesn't work live and it doesn't work on recordings, why do I own this thing? To tell everyone I have an expensive bass? I sold it for a profit. [/quote] You may well be making a false assumption about what time zone I am in, too . You are also wrong to assume that I am trying to infer that you have never played a Fodera. You may have played or indeed owned one but how many others have you played? Foderas vary greatly from example to example - they are a custom builder after all- and so even if you didn't like yours that doesn't mean they are all like that . I have played loads of Foderas , and I didn't like most of them either , so consequently I have never bought one , but that doesn't mean that I would want to denigrate them in any way . Different strokes for different folks and all that . Some of their five string basses are amazing , it has to be said, and put the competition to shame , so they would be a worthwhile purchase for someone who primarily plays a five ( not me) . What's for certain is the amount of hours put into each bass justifies the price . If you don't like 'em , don't buy one . No one will force you . Your Squire anecdote proves nothing except the eccentricities of people's preferences . If you crave a Fender tone ( like I usually do) then a Fodera won't satisfy you , in all likelihood . Most exotic wood basses sound to polite and sweet for my taste nowadays ( with certain notable exceptions). But does that mean that exotic wood basses like Fodera are a con or for the gullable ?

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1378139378' post='2196184'] In the 80s did everyone think Carlsbros were good? 70s Carlsbros are good, wondering how it all looked from the time. [/quote] They were a remnant of the age in which most bass amps were crap . They looked reasionable but were fairly ( very) unreliable with a grey , dull and depressing sound that was nowhere near the quality tones we have come to expect from a decent amp nowadays . If people are getting nostalgic about Carlsboro amps or they have developed any kind of vintage cache and desirability then anything is possible . Please tell me it isn't so . Avoid.

Trace Elliot all the way . They [i]were [/i]the 1980's when it comes to bass amps! I still have a big Trace combo at home and love it . Peavey was for people who couldn't quite afford Trace gear , or who were a bit wierd and didn't like it . Ampeg didn't resurface until the end of that decade , and Gallien Krueger and SWR weren't widely distributed in the U.K in that decade , either, so Trace reigned supreme.

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1382158382' post='2248754'] Right off the bat -- if you love something and are willing to pay the price, it's worth it. Enjoy. Now, let's move on, shall we? One can argue that MIM aren't as good as a Squier VM, therefore it's overpriced, and that may be a viable argument. There are dozens of boutique and custom built basses that cost 10 times as much as a stock Fender but aren't 10 times as good so the cost can't be justified. Maybe. But which company do you think is the most outrageously overpriced? I have to go with Fodera. True, personally I'm not that impressed with the basses. They play well but don't sound all that great and don't look all that great. But that's subjective. And even if I loved them, I'd STILL think the price was nuts. THIS [url="http://www.fodera.com/FoderaAdmin/Uploads/ContentDocument/Fodera%20Price%20List%20Feb.2013.pdf"]http://www.fodera.co...%20Feb.2013.pdf[/url] is not only obscene, it's insulting in my opinion. And those numbers are American dollars, so double that. (And add shipping costs from the U.S. ) And Fodera's don't even come finished! It's bare wood, so it looks worn just a few months after purchase. I feel this is a product that depends mostly on "snob appeal." The funny thing is, besides a few famous endorsees (who I assume get basses for free) it seems that the people buying these instruments are more hobbyists looking for that "dream instrument" than pros who need a solid workhorse. No offense is intended toward Forera owners. But if there's anyone out there more bonkers in regard to cost, let's hear it! [/quote] Posted at 4.53 AM? Do you stay up at night and try to think up silly posts that will get up peoples noses? I would be very interested to know how many Foderas you have played and in what circumstances to formulate this opinion that they are all smoke and mirrors and that you will not be suckered into purchasing one. Yet another thread based on someones assertion that they wouldn't buy something that they [u]CAN'T AFFORD ANYWAY[/u] . It's like listening to someone on Income Support talk about how they have decided not to start their own International Space Programme because they have decided that those billions of pounds could be better spent on International Aid . Do you think Vinnie Fodera reads threads like this and then lies awake at night worrying that people who couldn't buy his basses to begin with have now been enlightened by one of these" discussions " and now ... [i]really[/i] won't buy one ? You obviously have no knowledge of how Fodera have gained their formidable reputation for excellence . They most certainly do not give away basses for free to famous players ( I would like to see you say that to the crew at Fodera and then listen to their reaction ; native New Yorkers don't suffer fools gladly , to say the least), but the top players particulaly in NYC but now also the rest of the World gravitate towards them because of the degree of care and attention they put into making their basses and looking after their customers. Fodera are a fantastic example of a small business making high quality products in an individualistic and uncompromising way for a niche market , and long may they prosper. Are Foderas expensive? Well , they cost a lot of money , but if you understand the amount of hours it takes uniquely skilled craftsmen to make them then they are very fairly priced . Are they actually any good as basses? Yes, they most certainly are , but they will only suit people after a particular sound and feel , just like most basses. No bass can be all things to all men . If you don't like them then that is fine , but that in itsef isn't justification for your assertion that they are not really worthwhile instruments . Regarding the rest of what you have to say though , you have hit on a fair point . Are very expensive bespoke-made basses worth the extra over a decent quality "ordinary" bass? Well , it all depends how fussy and exacting you are as a player and what is important to you . A stock Fender can be as satisfying as a Fodera , depending on the sound and feel you want from a bass . The law of diminishing returns applies to buying basses as much or more as anything else, and the final results you can get with a bass that cost ten thousand pounds are not neccesarilly much better or even much different to the results you can get with one that cost two thousand quid, but the experience of creating those results will differ between the two instruments. Only the individual can decide which is most preferable. Why have I just spent so much time typing this response? I just fell for it ...again.

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1382111900' post='2248207'] Dingus, you didn't read lowender's post? He's just playing busy rock runs over the chords, it's a piece of piss apparently [/quote] [quote name='leroydiamond' timestamp='1382116421' post='2248285'] If its a piece of piss then I am a an absolute penis. Took me ages to learn this a couple of years ago. Its a master bass line by a master player [/quote] I have indeed read this thread from the beginning and with great interest. I can't play this song yet ( but I'm now going to have a go ASAP) , and it would certainly tax my ability to the very limit to learn it properly , if I could indeed master it at all . It may well be that to Lowender it is a piece of piss play this song- some people have much more ability on the instrument than others and maybe take some things for granted those of us with less skill find a struggle- but I hope he will show some forbearance as we try to muddle our way through in our own clumsy way . I have mentioned on Basschat many times before how highly I rate Neil Murray and what a criminally underrated bass player I think he is and this bassline really shows him at his imperious best . Listening to it again this afternoon , even when he is playing straight eighth notes he makes it difficult with his clever approach and numerous deft touches. You can really tell that Neil has got a background in playing challenging jazz rock music in his earlier bands like Colossium II and National Health , because he breezes through this song with an aplom which borders on arrogance. Maybe because he too has apparently got an in -depth knowledge of jazz theory that Lowender finds it much easier to play this one than the rest of us .

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1382115102' post='2248257'] Cripes you guys haven't lived!! Musicman bongo, reflex or big al - turn up the bass EQ - phenominal!!! [/quote] I can wholheartedly endorse Dr T on this . All Music Man basses have got massive bottom end - including the single pickup Stingray- but the more recent models have got a low end response that has a deeper dimension than most other basses on the market . The bass on my Reflex HH is huge , as is that on the Bongo HH, . The HSS and SSS available on some basses configurations are probably even deeper , so if you dig the really low stuff , EBMM is the way to go .

I'm not surprised the O.P is having a tough time getting to grips with playing this song if he is trying to copy Neil Murray's bass part note for note because it's a very tricky bassline in comparison to most mainstream rock music. Neil is a [u][i]very [/i][/u]clever player and there are all kinds of twists and turns in what he is playing on that track . It's not just that there are quite a lot of changes and it's a very busy line , but also the way he uses accents that make it hard to get right. If some folks are saying that this isn't a challenging bassline to tackle then I would sincerely love to see hear them play this song or anything else, for that matter, because they must be some player! If there is gig looming , I would strongly recommend on working on a make-do rendition that follows the changes and doesn't offend anyone , and then gradually working in more of the original as time permits , because, regardless of what anyone might say, that is a highly accomplished and relatively complex bassline by any standards .

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1382097169' post='2247862'] Whilst I am a bit meh about much of Billy's playing style, he is a great guy who speaks a huge amount of sense. This clip has some very interesting points concerning playing covers, strap length and GAS!! Some of you might not want to hear some of his comments.... [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yglAuOceEPo#t=194"]http://www.youtube.c...lAuOceEPo#t=194[/url] [/quote] A big +1 on this comment. I quite like Billys' playing in some instances , and his virtuosity is there for all to hear , but a lot of the music he plays isn't really my cup of tea, including this, I'm afraid( although I would recommend people check out his organ trio Niacin , with Dennis Chambers on drums for another side to Billy's playing . Some pretty intense music going on there ) , and he's never been a player I wanted to emulate. . For one thing, I not that keen on Billy's tone , to be honest with you , but I suppose it's his own thing and it works for him , so good luck to the guy. The reason why I have so much and respect and admiration for Billy Sheehan, though , is because every word that I have ever heard him say about any aspect of playiing the bass guitar has been absolutely spot -on . The man talks nothing but good sense borne out of experience , and so if Billy is talking then I want to listen . I've seen plenty of Billys playing over the years and you can really tell that he knows the basics of how to play the bass as well as all the pyrotechnics , and he could play styles of music other than those which he is currently known for , so he should get credit for that . There is a solid foundation to everything he plays , and it really shows . Seems like nice guy , too .

A good example of one of these basses would be a keeper , in my opinion . I bet if you A/B'd a nice one in good working order of these against other P-style basses currently on the market you would have to get into the £2000 and above price range to find instruments of comparable performance. I remember seeing Verdine White from Earth Wind And Fire playing one of these , as well as Paul Jackson with Herbie Hancocks at the very end of the 1970's. I also remember reading Lee Sklar talking about what remarkable sounding basses these were , too( he used one of these for the to record the bass part on "Your Smiling Face" by James Taylor , apparently , and credits its' tone for inspiring the engineer to mix the up-front sound of the bass guitar on that track) , so potentially a great bass with a great heritage for somebody. Go on Mark ( or somebody else) , you know you want to!

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1381778985' post='2243706'] You are joking...? [/quote] No I'm not joking; Fender really do claim to be able to predict the sound of a finished bass by tapping on the neck and the body . Hilarious but true !

[quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1381770330' post='2243483'] Ah, so it works if an expert hits a Fender with a Black and Decker. You or I could never get the same results from a Squier and a hammer from the pound shop! [/quote] Exactly !

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1381769463' post='2243453'] At the end of the day every car I have owned except for my classic ones has lost around £1500 a year so in reality thats a new USA Ray every year for nothing really isnt it, but people keep buying new cars and the cycle continues. Buy a used one for £750 now keep it for twenty years and I am sure it will be worth more than the Ford Focus we have on the drive right now, it will also still be a solid reliable gigging bass that looks and sounds great too, I see no problem [/quote] I agree wholeheartedly. Buying most basses is a much better investment than most other consumer durables, but the real value is the use you get from it.

[quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1381769212' post='2243441'] So it's OK to pay someone to professionally relic a bass, but sacrilege to let your mates do it? [/quote] I was literally just thinking about that . Maybe this video could be the beginning of the end for relicing . Although having said that , you do realise that Fender tap their bits of wood with a mallet first to check they sound O.K nowadays ? They will almost certainly scrape the paint off the body strategically to ensure the best possible sound from that resonant piece of body wood . The kids are just amatures by comparison , vandalising a bass without proper training.

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1381768594' post='2243421'] They're nice posh kids, they wouldn't do that without permission from it's owner Still a bunch of f***ing donuts though. [/quote] Indeed, but, without wishing to sound pompous( but probably sounding a bit that way) , the worrying thing is that this kind of attitude and behaviour is symptomatic of a kind of fake , forced wrecklessness that silly people ( mainly younger people) think is amusing and entertaining nowadays , when in fact it's just infuriating and ultimately quite dangerous if and when they apply it to other parts of their lives . These kids need to learn , it's all fun and games until someone gets their eye poked out.

That Jackass programme has got a lot to answer for . If someone did that to one of my basses they would find it a life-changing experience.

[quote name='roonjuice' timestamp='1381714294' post='2242813'] Only my 2p, but i readily whacked over a g (to Gareth) for a specific ray. He had exactly what i wanted/needed. it was there waiting and obviously less than new (but in shop new condition, cheers G!!) So speaking only personally, the money is there for the right instruments regarding buyers and sellers. [/quote] If your buying one of Gareth's basses then you know it is a good example and that it has been looked after., so that is worth paying extra for if those things are a priority for you ( it cetainly is for me ) .

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1381699866' post='2242678'] Oh I didn't mean dramatically. Just that the recent £200+ rise might make sellers not so keen to well so cheap. I usually have quite specific specs on mine (eg hh, matching headstock, not black or pearl blue) and it tends to attract a much more sensible second hand price. I agree. £800 is still a good price for a used Ray H in excellent condition. Especially if it's a sunburst or natural. Black? Hmm...loads about. [/quote] [quote name='molan' timestamp='1381701877' post='2242711'] I think it's interesting to compare the values of bog standard US Fenders with MusicMan. A new US Standard is around £1,250 whereas a Stingray is closer to £1,500. However, on the used market they are trading at pretty much the same price. If we take £750 as an 'achievable' price, purely for the sake of comparison, then the Fender is losing 40% from new (pretty much a market average for a lot of instruments) whereas the Ray has dropped 50%. I don't think this can be because there are more Rays around than US Fenders. Feels like it's simple market demand and that Rays are just a little less popular. I'm sure it wasn't that long ago that a Ray would almost always command a premium of £50 - £100 above its equivalent Fender but prices are a lot closer now. I don't know the history of the new market well enough to know if it's just recent thing in terms of depreciation but that extra £250 (even more if you go for some colours) must be hurting sales a fair bit. [/quote] Thats an interesting point about the price in relation to Fenders, Barrie. I think Fenders are a bit of law unto themselves in terms of resale value , for all kinds of reasons. I have seen wrecks that sold for ridiculous money, and I often see post 2008 Am St basses that are always a great buy go for £650-£750 on Basschat and to me that represents a fantastic purchase for someone , as is a Stingray for the kind of money we have discussed . Didn't EBMM U.K prices go up a lot and then come down again last year or am I remembering wrong ? I know your basses are mint and with some nice options Gareth , so you I could demand a premium on the secondhand price because of that. In light of that, Basschat might not be the best place to sell them in the unlikely eventuality that you decided to move them on .

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1381699866' post='2242678'] Oh I didn't mean dramatically. Just that the recent £200+ rise might make sellers not so keen to well so cheap. I usually have quite specific specs on mine (eg hh, matching headstock, not black or pearl blue) and it tends to attract a much more sensible second hand price. I agree. £800 is still a good price for a used Ray H in excellent condition. Especially if it's a sunburst or natural. Black? Hmm...loads about. [/quote] I am shocked at the prices a lot of basses - not just EBMM, by any means- go for secondhand on Basschat, Gareth , and I think it's a symptom of the fact that a lot of people need to raise some cash and the way the economy has been for a long time now , there is increasinly little money about and no real sign of things improving . If people are desperate to buy another bass they fancy or need the cash for something non-music related they can be in the position of having to take whatever they can get, I'm sorry to say. It certainly seems to be a buyers market, across the board.