Dingus

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1370608196' post='2103369'] Hmmmmm...ARE sounds a bit like "bollocky" gimic talk to me. Is it worth paying an extra grand for your average Joe Soap, even if it does play and sound a bit better? Just wondering. [/quote] Just like Sean says , you get a lot more than just the ARE and IRA when you pay the extra . Whether it is worth more than a grand more depends on the priorities of the person buying , but my point is that if you are looking to spend money on a high-end bass for whatever reason , the Yamaha is actually a bit of a bargain when you compare it to other basses of similar quality , most of which cost a lot more . A full spec US Lakland , NYC Sadowsky or Mike Lull , for example , will easily set you back a grand and more than one of these Yamaha's at U.K prices , but these BB's are easily in the same league as all of them .

Anthony Jackson always plays sitting down . His basses don't even have strap buttons . I prefer to play sitting down myself , but the reality is that if you intend to play in front of an audience , in most situations you usually need to play standing up . The bad news is that if you are going to play standing up then you need to practise playing in a standing position , because it comes as a shock how much harder it is if you are used to sitting down . The positions of all the bones in your hand change when you play standing with the bass on a strap and it takes some getting used to . I strongly advise practising the songs in the live set standing up if you intend to do the gig that way .

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1370529557' post='2102266'] Is that a trick question? [/quote] No ! But by asking it I am just suggesting that a simple bit of "enhanced "customer service can be excellent long - term business -sense for any company , big or small . People are far more likely to favour your brand or company in future if you made an exceptional effort to please them .

[quote name='mickster' timestamp='1370532520' post='2102324'] Let me start by saying that I'm v much a newbie bass player & BCer - tbh I have so little talent it's frightening, but I do love this old low-end lark & after all they tell me it's all about the journey, n'est ce pas? One thing I've noticed in my 12mths on BC, is that some people have a really strong over-identification with a particular brand of bass (I'm writing this very much with the current RIC thread in mind, but it applies to other brands (eg Musicman, Fender)) as well. I've genuinely been quite surprised at how common this is, and how personally some people seem to identify with a particular brand / manufacturer. Some people seem to be really insulted if another poster points out a perceived flaw with their favourite bass! Is this just a 'blokes with their toys' thing? I'm a photograher by trade, and you get a bit of this on some camera geek forums, where owners of (usually) v expensive cameras get a bit tribal about their kit. Not sure if its related, but these blokes (and it is almost always a bloke) also often seem to be the ones who only post pictures of their cats / dogs / children on the beach etc, and their photos in the main are, frankly, quite often bobbins. But compared to the photog world, the bass world seems to be much worse for this. People can get really arsey if you criticise any aspect of their brand of bass, and seem to take it as a deep personal insult. Or is this a sign of our times, a sign that marketing folk who have long championed 'The Brand' - even over the product itself - have esentially succeeded in getting folk to strongly identify themselves with a particular brand. Is this like the Apple fanboys, where people have been brainwashed into loving a brand so much that they become blind to a brands faults and their very egos are threatened if that brand is criticised? Hell, I love my Precisions but I feel no particular need to defend Fender in everything they do... I guess i'm just saying that I'm a little surprised at the strength of this in the word of bass players / musicians. I expected this world to be much more full of creative slacker types who get really really passionate about which is the best Fall album or whether Soft Machine actually got better after Hugh Hopper was replaced by Ken Bebbington etc. After all, isn't it ultimately all about the music more than the tools? You don't tend to see painters arguing to the death about who makes the best sable brushes. Obviously, BC is still a wonderfully eclectic place which doesn't only feature debates about equipment geekery - I've discovered some wonderful new bands on here already (Urb's Rae Forest Project and the aforementioned Softs ouevre being the latest), and I'd pay a membership fee just to read some of Silldx's regular philosophical musings / thought-arousing provocations… Anyway, just a observation I guess from a relative newcomer to this amazing community of bass players [/quote] With basses as with photography , the people who focus on the equipment to a fetishitic degree are usually amateur enthusiasts , whereas to professionals the equipment is mostly just tools of the trade to make money with . There is nothing wrong with being interested in equipment - people who are may or may not also know how to use it to make music or to take photographs with - but it is a slightly different passion than the purely artistic and creative . The fact is that it is much easier to focus on external problems with equipment than it is to get down to the crux of most people's problems , namely how to use the equipment more skillfully . Buying a new bass is a lot easier to focus your energies on than learning how to play the one you already have properly . I'm as interested in gear as the next person , probably more so , but I have learnt through experience a long time ago that a far greater sense of satisfaction comes from being able to play well than from aquiring any new toys .

Dave Ellefson explaining where his hair has gone : Arthur Scargill: Dingus :

[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1370526846' post='2102226'] It's not so much the thinning that bothers me. It's that it's always looked like it's made of straw and he cuts it himself. [/quote] In the world of hairdressing it's what's known as an " Arthur Scargill ".

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1370520317' post='2102102'] I can't believe bluejay hasn't turned up yet! Sylvia, have you seen what they are saying about our mate Dave? [/quote] She's probably with Dave right now , behind your back . You know what women are like . What do you think that recent trip to the States was all about ? A bit too much for coincidence , in my book . " I don't care if you've got a comb -over , Dave , I love you and your flawless pick playing unconditionally " . Don't get too upset , though - I 've seen the way that Peter Hook is looking at you in those pictures . Don't try and tell me he didn't try and give you his phone number so he could give you some in - depth one to one "tuition " . Well , now is the time to lower your standards and give him a call . Face up to it , this whole Dave thing is going nowhere fast . A lot like Dave's hairline .

[quote name='GregBass' timestamp='1370515427' post='2102003'] He should take lessons from those nice people at Hiscox cases. I recently bought one, but my Warwick was just a bit too small and rattled around in it. I mailed Hiscox support, and within 10 minutes someone called me on my mobile. He took the details and asked me to leave it with him. Two days later, four pads dropped through my door - and they were even the right colour match for the case lining. No charge - not even for the postage. [/quote] Would that level of customer service make you more disposed to spend your money with Hiscox in future if you need another case ?

It's worth mentioning that there is , according to many people , a direct correlation between weight and sound . A lot of builders and players claim that harder , denser woods sound better and give more punch . The Celinders that Molan mentions are a case in point - they tend to use very dense Danish ash that weighs a lot but probably contributes to the remarkable sound of those basses . I personally think slightly lighter basses can sound just as good in most cases , but I've never done particulaly extensive comparisons , I must admit . What I do know is that if a bass is too heavy for you , the only remedy is to get rid of it , because is a fault that can't be fixed , if you see what I mean .

[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1370470768' post='2101635'] He's got rubbish hair, though. [/quote] What's left of it ...

These Sandberg basses look good , and all they need to propel them into the big time as a brand is a bit more exposure from big - name players . My only cosmetic reservation is that the headstock looks ever so slightly ungainly to me , and some of the pickup arrangements ( that P with the big aperture single pole pieces +MM , for example ) look very wrong to me , but they probably sound as good as anything out there and they certainly look very robust .

[quote name='kulabula' timestamp='1370467217' post='2101553'] What is MiM?? [/quote] Made in Mexico . I had an Ibanez Musician too , back in the 80's when they first came out . It was, indeed, heavy .

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1370464685' post='2101492'] Ay, don't get me wrong, Lull/Sadowsky basses are absolutely top notch and superb. We do unfortunately however pay a fairly large chunk in import duties and VAT, so it shoots up even more. Plus, the dollar/pound isn't great at the moment. Sandberg are available much cheaper, (about £1200-1400 for a top notch 5 string) and a lot of that comes from the fact its European. The Americans then get burnt with the Sandberg prices and pay about £1800+ for the Marlowe DK bass, whereas here I've seen them for £1450. ALl interesting though. Shame all my GAS is usually for USA products! [/quote] That's true about the duty and VAT ect .Gareth , and it can be frustrating , BUT ( that's a big but ) ... you have to consider the amount of money of Americans have to take out of their income for medical insurance and other such things we take for granted in this country ( for now at least - no doubt the current Government have got one eye on taking even more things away from us ) then we get a better deal than we might think buying American basses , all things considered in the wider context . In America lots of goods are cheaper , wages can be higher for educated people and basic taxes are lower , but [u]everything[/u] else costs you so it is questionable if you end up with more disposable income to spend on gear . Bottom line is that you get more bang for your buck with the more intermediate -priced pro - quality gear , in my humble opinion . And you are right that you can get more for your money if you buy British or European , providing you can find products that you find equally appealing as the American - made ones .

I have longed for a Rickenbacker since before I even played the bass , but I too can't play them . That neck with no taper whatsoever is so alien to me as someone raised on Fenders , and the strings hit the pickup pole pieces . Maybe a 4004 would suit me better .

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1370455001' post='2101255'] I P.S. If you are a Beatle then who are the other two? [/quote] The other are alien reptiles masquerading in human form in order to take over Earth and enslave its' inhabitants . That's why the band broke up . Everyone blames it on Yoko but she just wanted us to let her tie herself up in a sack and do a bit of wailing every so often so she could call herself an artist instead of having to spend all her time in the kitchen making sushi for everyone all the time .

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1370455001' post='2101255'] It must have been the same place me. If you ever go back (or are still in) you can just about get a CD through the bars of the windows and with a deft flick of the wrist it's amazing how far they go. [/quote] Jimmy Saville promised to bring me some CDs next time he came to visit , but I am still waiting .

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1370454874' post='2101251'] Thank God it's not just me, then. I've got quite serious GAS for a Ric as a result of all these shenanigans. It has to be a real one, mind - and I don't care if the copies [i]are [/i]superior - IT HAS TO BE A REAL ONE!! [/quote] Perverse , but true . I want one of these : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5MLmb0QIxg Or even one of these : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hShSs5IlIH0

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1370453147' post='2101203'] I told my therapist of my dislike of The Mopped Top sensations and he advised me to take each LP out of it's sleeve and launch them frisbee-like out of an upstairs window. They never come back you know. [/quote] I told my therapist I didn't like the Beatles , and he told me it didn't really matter whether I liked them or not because this was a secure psychiatric unit for dangerous offenders and I wouldn't have access to a CD player anytime in the forseeable future because I might try and fashion a weapon to harm myself or others out of the equipment or indeed the discs themselves . I suppose the fact that I had spent the previous three months telling him I actually was one of the Beatles didn't help my cause .

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1370452094' post='2101167'] I'd say any of Abbey road, Revolver, Rubber Soul, Sgt Pepper - they're all much of a muchness,,,,,,or any album by Oasis . HTH [/quote] Yes , the Beatles were good , but no match for Oasis .

Revolver is indeed also brilliant . Forgot about that one .

Abbey Road , without a doubt , but Rubber Soul is good too . The White album has it's moments , but it's a bit patchy in places .

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1370432953' post='2100686'] I have a different opinion of Chris. I own a California VM-5 and had it up against 2 Sads on our last bass bash. One can see that the Sad is a more expensive instrument but not by so much difference. My bass has a flawless fit and finish, everything came prefectly aligned and setup. I had a problem with the pickups on mine (lack of pole pieces grounding) and Sandberg sent new pickups free of charge very quickly. Electronics are very good, the glock is very musical and versatile and doesn´t have a volume drop between active/passive. On passive mode the high knob works as a passive tone control. My bass is the lightest bass i ever owned, lighter than the Ken Smith but doesn't lacks in tone. I would buy a sandberg over a Sadowsky any time, i can´t justify paying the extra 1K. Sandberg necks tend to be a bit chuncky but i like them that way. Here's a video of mine on the bass bash (after it enters a Fodera, you can hear the difference but is it a 10K difference?): [media]http://youtu.be/cnFyQgxsrFA[/media] cheers [/quote] I had watched this twice before I realised this little get together was in Portugul . Intially , when I couldn't make out what people were saying I presumed it must have been the North East bass bash and the people speaking were Geordies !

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1370427549' post='2100574'] I know, I know, a lot of people would laugh at the question. But just think about it... In places like the USA and Japan, the Sandberg basses are very expensive. It is almost the equivilant of the extra we pay on something like a Sadowsky Metro or, as another more expensive example, a Mike Lull. I’ve seen comments asking why the USA have to pay so much for a Sandberg....welcome to our world!!! Lull’s aren’t as ‘mass produced’ as the Sandberg basses, I agree, but the Sandbergs are essentially hand build in Germany, with some quite high end kit like Delano pickups and Glock pre’s. I’ve seen a few posts on Talkbass comparing the Sandbergs to the Sadowsky Metro’s, and noting they are approaching the same quality, but different designs. I can’t comment, as I’ve not properly played both close together. Are we missing a trick here? I’ve been discussing an order of a Sandberg bass, and the waiting list is now 6 months plus, because they are becoming busier and busier. It seems to me the market is starting to take notice of them. Is the reason behind the difference in price simply down to brand? The USA brands have such dominance, but I’d really like to start buying some European kit... Compare the Sandberg TT or TM4/5 with a Metro UV 4/5...massive price difference. The Sandberg can be two single coil pups, or a H (with coiltap) plus a single coil. The H allows you to drop into single coil mode to get a normal jazz tone. The pre’s aren’t that different in what they can do, eg the Sandberg is 2 band, push/pull active/passive, with a tone control. The Sadowsky is a 2 band, with the VTC. Both can have blocks, no binding, but Sandberg has a lot more colour options. One would set you back £2200 ish, the other £1200-1400 ish. Is there a large difference in quality? Is the tone good with both basses? I have no idea. Then you have the option to have boutique quilt tops, ageing, and all sorts of options with the Sandberg. That takes the price up, and then its almost what we expect from a Lull... Again, the difference? Who knows. Is this just another example of dominance of brand? [/quote] Your touching on a really complicated and potentially very sticky subject here Gareth , on what makes basses above a certain price point worth their asking price and how they compare in terms of overall quality and value for money . My abbreviated answer would be that above a certain point , the law of diminishing returns kicks in more and more , and you are , in a lot of cases at least , paying for very small but not neccesaruilly inconsequential differences and improvements to the overall playing and owning experience . I've never played or even seen a Sandberg in the flesh , so I can't comment on them , but I do know that Mike Lull builds basses to a very high standard in anyones estimation , and he is a very good guy to deal with . If he puts his name on a bass , it has had some care taken over it . Exactly the same with Roger Sadowsky . If either of these guys makes you a bass , they are genuinely concerned that the bass is as right as it can possibly be , without exception . They have built a reputation on that , and they take it very seriously . That said , is the experience of playing one of these high end basses that much better overall than a well - chosen bass at half or less than half the price ? Overall I would say probably not . Playing an EBMM or American Standard Fender can sound and feel just as good in the final analysis . Small differences in manufacturing techniques and cosmetic features that soon just become part of the furniture anyway end up costing a lot of money . Don't get me wrong , I love high - end basses , but , paradoxically , they aren't that much more useful for actually playing bass on than a mass - produced basses of decent quality .

Is this where the expression "getting screwed " comes from ? Absolutely disasterous public relations from Rickenbacker . If just one person has decided not to buy a new Rick because of this thread , then they will need to sell a lot of screws to make up for that . You have to admire the sheer bloody - mindedness of this mob . They seem downright mental , and they don't seem to care a jot what anybody thinks about it . The more I hear about this man and his company , the more I like him . I'm getting interested in buying a Rickenbacker !

[quote name='Sean' timestamp='1370426748' post='2100557'] It's not quite as simple as that, so I'll elaborate and clarify. Wood treatment aside. The 2000s are luthier made in a workshop in small numbers to extremely high quality standards by highly skilled craftsmen and take many more man hours to complete. The 1000s, although extremely well finished, are factory made using mass production techniques and do not have the attention to detail throughout the process that the 2000s do. The resulting products differ massively in feel and playability to a discerning player. The difference between the two is significant and can be compared to the difference between a Standard US Fender and a Master Built Custom Shop Fender. [/quote] Exactly this . I haven't played a 1024/1025 so I can't comment on them , but when it comes to high - end basses I've played most of what's out there and the Yamaha 2024/2025 are some of the very best quality basses available at any price , easily the match for whatever exotic custom- built bass you care to mention . I would compare the overall construction quality to NYC Sadowsky , U.S Lakland , Fodera ect , and by that comparison I mean that they are made to the highest standards of construction that a guitar can be made to . That quality translates to an amazing sound and effortless feel to the finished bass .