MiltyG565

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1355500181' post='1899327'] So why is promoting and advertising in music less palatable than any other product or service? [/quote] I never said it wasn't. I just don't want to be bothered with it is all.

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1355499655' post='1899312'] I honestly think you do have the rosy specs on mate [/quote] I don't, i just think there are a lot of people in the industry who couldn't care less about music. [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1355499824' post='1899320'] Be prepared to have a lot of CDs left over after you've sold your few to friends and family. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I've done it myself in the past. But I've sold a lot more CDs when I've actually made an effort to promote and market them. [/quote] As with anything.

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1355498740' post='1899290'] Why in god's name would you do that when you could make millions and millions of pounds like she does, doing what she does already? It would be a terrible decision and let's face it, any qualms about integrity are usually the first thing to go when you get offered the kind of money we're talking about. I think you might be viewing the industry with rose-tinted specs on because it is largely a myth that artists will appear on the airwaves, the top 40 and on TV etc based on merit. Certainly not nowadays and never directly in the 60's, 70's 80's either. The people that bring you music are the people that run the industry, they're the people that want to generate a profit from what they do and like a lot of big business integrity doesn't even creep into the equation. They want to squeeze profit from an artist, with Cheryl Cole it's like shooting fish in a barrel with young girls because everybody wants to look like her, sing like her, be her etc. [/quote] I don't think i am looking at it through rose tinted glasses, i know what goes on. But money = the corruption of any person, organisation or industry. That's where the entire thing fell down really, seeing that they could sell more than just music. Personally, i wouldn't mind recording and putting out my own CD, and not worrying about any of that PR stuff, and just letting whatever money it makes come to me. Doesn't matter to me. If somebody wants to listen to me, they will buy my CD.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1355498299' post='1899277'] I don't know about the shape, but Roger Sadowsky is pretty certain that the neck joint is responsible for a lot of the tone, and his basses are 34" and sound great. [/quote] I wouldn't dispute that, but you can't point to the neck joint and claim that is the only reason why his basses sound great?

[quote name='dougal' timestamp='1355498159' post='1899275'] "we MUST NOT use rehearsals to learn songs just polish them" I have this argument with my band the whole time. I'm on the singer's side with this one. [/quote] Yup, 100%. Me and my best mate and quite an annoying kid formed a band (if it could be called that). My best mate insisted that we learn nothing until we get to rehearsals, i said we learn everything, then make it fit in rehearsals. But we had one rehearsal, then a lot of talks from the other kid, and i got annoyed and left. My mate gave him too many chances because he believed him far more than he should have, and then he eventually quit too.

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1355497767' post='1899267'] So you can disagree with them later? [/quote] That isn't the intention, but it might be the result. Nothing helps you learn like 2 things- making a mistake, and having a debate.

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1355497476' post='1899262'] Is this what you meant? [/quote] Possibly, but i do promote it.

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1355495274' post='1899222'] Fair enough. Please tell us what your principles are so we can all follow them as you wish us to do. [/quote] That's not true at all. I promote people to think and come up with their own ideas, beliefs and principles.

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1355494670' post='1899210'] And? She's a musical ready meal. You serve a well made ready meal to your friends, the fact you didn't cook it doesn't mean they will not enjoy it, until maybe they find out the truth which may sour the taste somewhat. It doesn't matter that CC can't sing, that's only a tiny part of her money making enterprises. [/quote] Very true. But i still won't listen to her on the grounds of principle.

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1355494722' post='1899212'] Because it's often a filthy f***ing business. [/quote] A filty.... f***ing business...? I thought that was the porn industry

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1355494318' post='1899199'] Maybe, but that doesn't change the fact that anyone who eats KFC is either ignorant or uncaring about the attendant animal welfare issues. Why do you think Tesco sell cheap Danish bacon pumped full of water to ignorant consumers? Because they don't think the general public would enjoy real bacon because it would taste too strong and they wouldn't buy it. Same with music, big music companies have to sell sh*t to fund the next big sh*t, some of the better ones will release some more obscure music aswell, but it doesn't really pay, they are taking a risk. Do you think Holzt's The Planets and Vivaldi's Four Seasons are so popular because of the music? Of course not, they are the only orchestral music CDs in some people's houses because they can say 'See! This sounds like how I imagine Mars to be! Amazing innit!' You have to feed people or they won't get it, they need clues to enjoy the music. In pop it's about sex, clothes, shooes, make up, dance moves. Gangnam f***ing Style! I bet you can see that video in your head, but what do you remember of the music? [/quote] Mate, some people just need cheap fried chickens. If all that's true, why aren't you working in PR?

[quote name='mcgraham' timestamp='1355493539' post='1899181'] Does it matter? The finished product sells. What about authors that can write a great book in a month versus those that can write an equally great book but takes them 2 years? One has to get through a lot more first drafts and retakes of sections than the other, one might be a more skilled writer, but at the end of the day it's the finished product we're interested in, not the innate skill of the person who wrote it. [/quote] But Cheryl Cole still can't sing, no matter how many takes she does.

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1355493077' post='1899165'] This is MASS marketable, if you subscribe to the notion that the average popular music consumer is a lazy, generally ignorant sheep-like fleshy substance with little ability to do much more than dance, and worship and copy their idols' make-up, hair and sartorial elegance, then no wonder we have our current short-termist profiteering music industry, and no different than KFC, McDonald's, Asda, etc. They make money out of clever marketing and the 'public's' inability to process or be interested in anything they are not familiar with. Try getting your average KFC muncher to try some sustainably sourced sashimi 'I ain't eetin raw fackin fish yer c**t!'. And yet there remains a decent western market for sushi, albeit not real sushi in most cases. Same with music. [/quote] Well now, just because somebody likes KFC doesn't mean that they don't also like sushi. That's a bit of a generalisation. I think it's more uncultured people you are thinking of, who spend all day walking around the estate (a housing estate, nothing fancy) in tracksuits, then go out for dinner at KFC, then spend the rest of the evening, drinking in the street.

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1355492884' post='1899163'] All music is a subjective topic, we all like different things but it's fair to say that it's got to be less than half at what investors in new music look for. We'd be completely kidding ourselves if we were to believe that artists are added to label's rosters on the strengths of their music alone, after all how could the labels expect to make any kind of return? It needs to sell, they need an image to work with. Clearly someone out there thinks that Jake Bugg has this. Lana Del Ray, I'd heard of her and seen her before I'd even heard her music. She was propelled to stardom on the strength of literally nothing, she released her album a few months after. It's increasingly the framework that new artists are developed, it has little to do with music at all. [/quote] Yup, i understand that. But is anyone disputing that Cheryl Cole can sing? Because i really doubt that she can, but yet, she is a recording artist. I think her act lies more in dancing and just being a good looking girl (as harsh as that sounds) than being a performing musician or singer. Maybe she should look at other careers that would use those attributes and skills without forcing her to mime all the time?

[quote name='mcgraham' timestamp='1355492749' post='1899159'] You're entitled to your opinion, but I think even you would enjoy one musical act more than another if one was a better looking and better performing artist, provided the music of each act was of a sufficient standard - not even saying equal, just that neither could be called bad. [/quote] Of course, of course, who wouldn't? but even still, when you have your iPod or whatever, what really matters? the image? but you can't see them. The music is what really matters if you are an artist.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1355492449' post='1899150'] IMO the Fender style neck joint makes it nearly impossible to play easily beyond the 15th fret. Plus I have never come across a 5-string bass with that kind of a neck joint that can deliver authoritative sounding B string. [/quote] ooff, are you really saying that the shape of a neck joint changes the characteristics of the B string? Seriously?

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1355492192' post='1899144'] But the musicians who think think it's just about the music and nothing else are the ones who are playing to just a handful of their friends on one of those multi-band bills, and will never amount to anything more, unless someone outside the band takes an interest in them and they are prepared to listen to and act on what that person has to say. [/quote] Yup, but they haven't seen that they are good looking, and used that as a selling point. I do think it's just about the music. Image is import, of course, we live in a society obsessed with it, it's hard to get away from it, but the music always has to come first. Personally, if a tramp wrote a song that i liked, i would buy it from him. EDIT- I should really have used the term "A down and out".

[quote name='mcgraham' timestamp='1355491242' post='1899112'] As it's related, and I found it really eye opening, here's a great seminar by a guy called Ralph Murphy. VP of ASCAP [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wBOUJ5Mbrk&feature=player_embedded[/media] [/quote] I really need to watch that, but i've just been handed a hot whiskey, and it isn't sweet enough But in all honesty, i do need to watch that.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1355491582' post='1899122'] At least the bass you linked to in your OP is in the right budget territory for a decent 5-string bass. IME nothing puts a person off 5-string basses as quickly as a budget one that simply has no hope of delivering. There's a lot more to making a decent 5-string bass than simply widening the neck to accommodate the extra string and adding the appropriate number of pole-pieces to the pickups and saddles to the bridge. Neck construction needs to be completely re-examined, and in the case of bolt-on necks the joint needs to be perfectly made and rock-solid - something that no 5-string bass under £1000 that I've come across manages to do. [/quote] I noticed also that they have shaped the heel for better ergonomics in the higher frets. That's something i like. My jazz could do with that because i like to play well up there sometimes.

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1355491549' post='1899120'] It's all about the package, the PR and marketing, if he was called Andrew Jones, do you think he'd have been a successful? the name Jake Bugg paints a big picture of something a bit more American and exotic than Andrew Jones, which is a bit more outskirts of Milton Keynes. His music's American sounding, he looks cool, he plays and sings well and his songs are ok, he is MARKETABLE to the masses and everybody wins. [/quote] Yes, this is what i mean when i talk about artists that are marketable. It's nearly like the music comes as a bonus, rather than a necessity. They want somebody cool, good looking, who can maybe dance a bit, and would be a bit of a role model for kids. I agree with you 100%, he is totally marketable, but so it Justin Bieber, Nicki Minaj, Cheryl Cole. I'm not comparing him to them, but i just wanted to be clear on what marketable means, it's not always about your ability to song or write songs.

[quote name='andyjingram' timestamp='1355490870' post='1899110'] It doesn't wash with me either- it all seems so blatant, and I'm the sort of guy who will avoid listening to something [i]because[/i] it gets overly pushed on me. Hopefully when I hear this guy for the first time I won't know it's him and will get to enjoy my own uncoloured opinion of the music. No TV is good, too! I wish I could get my wife to agree on that one. [/quote] I generally just watch 4OD now when i want to watch something i like... Like Derren Brown, coincidentally. Yeah, i did the heels in too when something is pushed on me, it's human nature i think. [quote name='andyjingram' timestamp='1355490870' post='1899110'] Have you ever been to a PR company? They provide a service for a fee. Publicity and insider contacts (dealt with indirectly, to keep their hand) at a price. Time in a great studio with a great engineer and producer work the same way. If, I dunno, Jakes Uncle Kev has the readies to spare, he can easily fund a high quality recording and handle all the invoices from the PR guys to get his nephew in the right place. Doesn't mean Mr Bugg isn't worth that spending, but it does mean that someone without that funding won't be able to get the same exposure. [/quote] Ah, i haven't been to a PR company before, but i see what you are saying. It's kinda make the whole thing a bit clearer now

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1355490825' post='1899109'] Does this mean your ideal activity is : cooking Derren Browns smile in a car while listening to music? [/quote] No, it means that Derren Brown is smiling while i cook in a car listening to music. Cooking a smile? hehehe

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1355489394' post='1899062'] The OP wants a Fender. I don't know if this applies across the whole range or just to their more expensive basses but, from reviews and comments on Talkbass it seems that Fender are building much better basses these days, so I'd have fewer worries about QC on basses built in the last few years. My concern is that if the OP is tight on budget then a good used bass leaves him less exposed to depreciation if he decides to go back to 4 strings. [/quote] Thank you. I don't know what it is about people attacking my tastes and interests today

[quote name='Toasted' timestamp='1355490055' post='1899083'] Yes you were - you said he didn't do anything new or fresh and because he was popular that was unfair. That conflicts with the idea that RHCP should escape the same criticism. EDIT: you're the gift that keeps on giving, interests: "Derren Brown" [/quote] I don't see what my personally interest in entertainment and culture has to do with a discussion on jake bugg. Also in my list of interests is making people smile, cooking, music and cars, for anybody that hasn't glanced across there. Anybody want to make another hit at my personal interests?

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1355489669' post='1899073'] Right time, right place, right contacts [/quote] This is probably the best explanation so far on this thread, and it really was only 4 words.