Sean

Oh, and other stuff... Build quality is top notch, HF control works to the extent that I can tell the difference, wheels are great and handles are perfectly good.

So, my BFBT2 arrived last week and it sounded great at home but I was waiting for a band rehearsal to really see if it was what I wanted and if it worked for me. As you can see I set up my Matamp 2x12 (2x Eminence Delta Pro 12A) next to the BFBT2 so I could easily A/B (Pepsi Challenge) the two cabs easily just by swapping cables over between takes of songs. Rehearsal being an ideal opportunity to do this as we play each song twice (or more). I also took my wireless so that I could move around the room and hear what's going on in different places. Once I'd got the 400+ set up and the Yamaha BB2024x plugged in we were ready to go. 400+ settings: Input Ch 2 Vol=5 Master=4 Middle=10 Bass=3 + popped out Treble=3-4 = popped out NOFX Note that the Matamp's drivers are new and not run in, those Delta Pro 12As have only about 2 hours playing on them and the BFBT2 even less. Now, after reading about Handwire and Paubass' experience with the very same cab I was prepared to be disappointed and even prepared for whinging from the others. My initial reaction was that it's very punchy and has huge low end and it cuts through really well. It also sounds exactly like a 400+ should in my head. So, first song I used it, it was so obvious that it wasn't my usual cab that only a corpse (and my Mum, probably) would have failed to notice the difference. We played the song again, this time with me through the Matamp and it was a very different story. The Matamp has a very definite sound to it and the top end sizzle wasn't there to the same degree (duh, lack of tweeter) and it's very punchy but the BT2 has so much more ooomph and air-moving capability even all new and not broken in. I like it, it's like me on a good day and I didn't get any of that feeling that I was hyper-aware of all the idiosyncratic shortcomings and inaccuracies of my playing, maybe it just doesn't work that way with a 400+, who knows? One of my main priorities was to stand next to the drummer to hear what he hears as if that didn't work then the cab isn't worth tuppence let alone the Bag o' Sand that is the Annekah of this little tutti frutti [English:One thousand of your English Pounds asking price for this rather attractive object]. So standing next to our bloke on the sticks, I could hear myself really nicely and it was what I sound like. Moving to the guitarist, it sounded the same but with more high end and when I got to the keys player, it wasn't quite as good cos I had to hold my breath and that interferes with your hearing but anyway... The singer liked it a lot, told me to stop swapping and stick with the one that filled the room. He's the gaffer so that's what I did. Now then, the more eagle-eyed of you guys will have spotted that there is a Mesa Walkabout on top of the Matamp cab. I've never played the Walkabout through the Matamp and never had any desire or need to but I took it along just to see how it would perform through the BT2. Before I write anymore about that I noticed that there's a thread here where someone is asking what amp to use with a Barefaced of some kind or another and to that guy I must say, Walkabout. I used to occasionally use the WA with my pair of Berg AE210s and it just didn't have the meat to get that pair of cabs moving properly although as you might expect, it did sound good but nothing to terrorise the neighbourhood. The WA through the BT2 is astonishing! It's one of the great amp/cab combinations of all time, especially since the WA is so plug & play and quiet. I compare the BT2 + WA to my friend's remapped Audi A7 3.0 TDI Quattro S-Line; absolutely thumping and performance like you wouldn't believe whereas the BF2 + 400+ is more like the air-cooled '93 Porsche 911 I used to have. One's modern and comfy, has outstanding performance and is easy to use to the point where any monkey can have fun with it and the other is inherently obsolete, absolutely fascinating, growls and snarls and you spend your whole time trying to master and tame the beast but gives you 1000x the thrill when you nail it successfully out of a bend. Based on today's outing, the Big Twin is staying.

[quote name='ironside1966' timestamp='1397915106' post='2428587'] [font=Arial, sans-serif]Basically you get what you pay for, good studios cost. There are many talented home studio engineers and that includes people on this forum but there are also many people out there setting them self’s up has commercial studios and mobile recording units that don’t have the skills do it and the ears to know they are just not that great. I should know I have remixed quite a few projects form people like this. [/font] [font=Arial, sans-serif]If you are going to pay someone for recording do your home work listen to their work first. [/font] [font=Arial, sans-serif]I will have some free time after this month is over if you would like me to have a go. [/font] [/quote] I think the main mistake I made with this guy is that the previous two times I was involved I was in a covers band and the guitarist in that band spent a long time guiding the mixing process to what he wanted and consequently the results were pretty good. I'd be absolutely delighted and eternally grateful for you to have a go at it if you want to . I've asked for the stems so will keep you up to date.

[quote name='moonbass' timestamp='1397894680' post='2428253'] It's true that a lot of mixing choices are subjective, but it sounds like the mix engineer didn't have any discussion with you about what you wanted from the mix. He also seems to have made some unusual decisions for a modern recording; did he play guitar in the 80s? It certainly sounds like a guitarists take on drums. There is a big lack of punch to them that is easily dialled in on Logic, even just using drum presets. This would be easily demonstrated to him by taking him some music you would like it to sound like to reference against. Sorry to say I wouldn't have high hopes for him delivering what you're after. Although mastering can add some punch to tracks, it's not going to save this one I'm afraid. Imagine it like adding an Instagram filter to a photo; it might look a little cooler, but if the original photo's rubbish, it's still going to look rubbish. I think the idea of handing the tracks over for Basschats mixing competition is good. It would certainly make you aware of how many different ways there are mix a song. I would say though that the tracks sound like they could do with more instrumentation; most recordings will have a few more bells and whistles in (sometimes literally). But if you're just after a live sounding demo then that's a different matter. A. [/quote] Yes! The guy was a lead guitarist with an 80s glam metal band that was featured in Kerrang back in the day :-D Nice spot! I've requested the tracks so handing them over for the Basschat competition won't be an issue. When I've recorded rock tracks in the past I've included acoustic guitars and tambourine low in the mix just to give some extra texture, is that the kind of extra instrumentation you mean?

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' timestamp='1397850559' post='2428028'] Lets hope its less of a waste of money than that tutorial video he released was for anyone daft enough to buy it - the one where Flea talks bollocks to River Phoenix & jams with Chad Smith [/quote] It might give some insight into River Phoenix' death. Second time this week someone's mentioned that awful video.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1397837281' post='2427833'] A whole subject in itself; I'm no expert, but here's a brief notion or two... Once upon a time, there were 78s. They had a particular 'sound'. If one was recording, knowing that 78s were to be the final medium, one could attempt pre-compensation so that the result was 'better'. Then came 33s, with a very different dynamic. A particular sound. The same original recording would require quite different compensation to get it to sound 'better'. Now here come cassettes, so again we adjust. CDs..? Same thing; change the mastering to suit the medium. One may, nowadays, choose which 'sound' one is targeting (destination discothèque, or car radio, or hi-fi; there's tons of 'genres'...) or 'type' of music (mastering for Folk, or Heavy Metal, Reggae or Classical Concert...). How is it done..? An even more vast subject, which I'll leave for the more expert, but it basically involves multi-band filtering and compression, for instance. Not for pretty little heads like mine to understand. My initial remark was to suggest that final judgement for a mix should, ideally, be made after all stages are finished, including mastering, if applicable. I've often come across mixes which sound fine pre-master, but horrible post, and vice versa. Hope this helps... [/quote] I think I get it. Thanks.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1397835958' post='2427814'] Sean... I've given 'em a quick listen through, with headphones; they're not as bad as your description (imo..!). Not saying that they're perfect, but I've heard (much...) worse on the radio. Yes, the bass is quite far down in the mix, the guitars are a tad over-powering and the lead voice is not as far 'out front' as I would expect, but having listened equally to the 'raw' mix, there's been some work done. The drums sound quite suitable for the genre; perhaps a touch more kick..? All is a matter of taste, of course, but it's not a complete train wreck nor sabotage. If the stem WAVs were available, any DAW should be able to re-mix, although the fx and treatments used would be different (a Good Thing..?). Can you not get the original fellow to go over it all with yourself and/or other band members, to get an overall sound you (jointly...) prefer..? Will these be re-mastered before release..? That, too, will affect the final result. An interesting case (although that won't comfort you much, I shouldn't think..!); I've 'tagged' for following... [/quote] I think the first solution will be for the singer to go and sit with the guy for a while and try to make some changes however I think they'll need quite a bit more treatment before we'll be happy. How will the mastering change the sound? < complete noob question and not facetious btw. Currently scrambling all over the internet trying to soak up as much info on recording, mixing and mastering.

[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1397834563' post='2427795'] If it isn't broken, then you need to ask yourself why are you trying to fix it? [/quote] The BBOT wasn't broken but until someone came along and made it better...

Thanks for that. Here's the unmixed tracks on bandcamp [url="http://outlandsmusic.bandcamp.com/"]http://outlandsmusic.bandcamp.com/[/url] - when I say unmixed, I mean that I asked for the mix as it was sitting on Logic when we left to be bounced to disc so I could listen on the way home. Here's the tracks as mixed, which we got back a few days ago: [url="https://soundcloud.com/seanfunk1/build-me-up-1st-mix"]Someone Like You[/url] [url="https://soundcloud.com/seanfunk1/harder-we-try-1st-mix"]Build Me Up[/url] [url="https://soundcloud.com/seanfunk1/harder-we-try-1st-mix"]Harder We Try[/url] The band has got what I would say is a big but airey sound when we play in rehearsal rooms. My bass always sits well up in the mix and cuts through - I'm fortunate enough to be in a band where the leader (vocalist) loves bass driven songs and likes it to cut through. The guitars sound weak and the drums have no punch. The backing vocals seem to dominate and are way over the top. To me at the moment, sharing this stuff feels a bit like getting your puss-ridden tackle out on that [i]Embarrassing Bodies[/i] TV show. Any advice gladly received

My band has recently recorded three songs and the guy that recorded them has done a first mix for us which is pretty horrendous to say the least; even the unmixed tracks sound better! The recording process was absolutely fine and the individual tracks sound ok (I think), it's just that when he's done the mix, it's weak weedy, bass and drums sit too low in the mix, and my bass sound has been turned to mud. Lots of other issues too. It's not complicated stuff, straightforward rock originals with just bass, live drums, vocals and a few guitar tracks so I wasn't expecting the guy to make such a pickle of it. Can anyone recommend someone or somewhere that we can use to get our stuff mixed properly and without costing the earth? I guess the guy wouldn't be bothered about burning the stems on to disc for us. Would anyone anticipate an issue with this? If anyone would like to hear them I can upload to Soundcloud.

[quote name='Mark Dyer' timestamp='1397574299' post='2425279'] Does anyone remember a Flea tuition vid where he arrives hungover and plays really badly, then teams up with Chad at the end for a lesson in playing 'really simply' whilst imagining dancing girls are in the room with you. I really would love to see that again, I could do with a good larf. [/quote] Is that the one where River Pheonix is hanging around him? Those two had a bizarre relationship. Too much pharma not enough tuition!

[quote name='cocco' timestamp='1397676399' post='2426432'] I don't see what the point would be. The Lakland bridge is bomb proof and more attractive. Plus mass wise I doubt there's a lot in it. [/quote] +1000

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1397334619' post='2423011'] The funk's in the gunk [/quote] James Jamerson would agree. I'd leave it in there.

[quote name='Bassman Steve' timestamp='1397657105' post='2426144'] Never used cryo valves myself. Can't say I'm really convinced by the whole argument myself but I stand to be corrected. Slight whiff of snake oil in my opinion but there's no evidence to support that view. [/quote] Exactly my thoughts until I asked one of the research boffs in work who knows all about metallurgy; he rolled his eyes in disgust and started to draw some digrams explaining crystalline structure in metals and I felt a bit embarrassed at not knowing as I had a large chunk of Metallurgy as part of my degree. It's not snake oil, it's all good and the claims are proven. The only questions are, will you be able to tell the difference and if so, is it worth the extra dollar? For me, I'd go non-cryo and spend the extra cash on more exotic pre-amp valves. And saying that I might just go cryo...

Unfortunately most blokes in the UK have no muscles and whinge continuously so have to have class D amps that are lighter than but sound worse than tea bags. We're the second most obese nation on earth and need nano technology to help us overcome our denial. Good to see our Southern Hemisphere cousins loving and embracing the valvey goodness, even if it is American-made. I'm a proud owner of a Mesa 400+ and have a Brit 4 x KT88 monster on the way and I had the transformers made extra heavy not to sound better but to upset weaklings and sanctimonious w£&@ers :-)

[quote name='Bassman Steve' timestamp='1397587794' post='2425486'] I would read the 6L6 reports on Watford Valves. They recommended winged C 6550's for my Bass 400 and they're brilliant. [/quote] Unfortunately you can't fit the 6550 valves in a 400+ as the 6L6s are crammed in and there's not enough room.

How long do I need to play through it and at what volumes to break the speakers in?

Get in touch with Matamp and Jeff will make a custom case for you

Hi Jim, Get the cryo ones from Watford :-) I'm running standard Mesa valves but will be switching at some point this year. After talking to an expert, I'm led to believe that as long as it's good quality valves in the power section then it doesn't make too much difference on these. And the pre amp valves make the most difference to sound. There are a few experts here so I expect someone will put us right sooner or later. I'm always looking on TB at Chef's posts about his 400+ but haven't got that much insight as to what to put in as replacements. Randall says MB valves only but then again he would.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1397379235' post='2423260'] Ew. Isn't that like rummaging through his pants drawer, or something? [/quote] It's fine, we have a special bond [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1397377584' post='2423245'] wooo pretty bass, I'm going looking through your old posts to see if you've a photo of more of your stuff! [/quote] Find anything I wish I hadn't sold?

I'm just about to get into Logic Pro X after having used GB for a few years and I'd like to know what experiences anyone's had. I'm recording keys, guitars, bass and using the amazing Drummer feature for drums. I've not got a proper interface yet but do have a Zoom H4 and a Zoom B3 that both cover all bases as basic interfaces but don't really do multiple tracks. I'm running a mid-2007 iMac with 6GB Ram, 2.4 GHz, 500GB SSD. So, what can you tel me? Thanks Sean

I'm still a bit wary especially after Handwired's experience but so far it sounds fantastic. Punch like nothing else and real trouser-flapping air movement. The Roqsolid cover I have for it fits better than any other Roqsolid cover I've ever had too.

Build quality and finish is amazing. It sounds great at home at different volumes, it'll be interesting to know what it sounds like at rehearsal.

Next job is to run the Walkabout through it - now where's that screwdriver?

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1397229076' post='2422041'] Wow, I bet that 400+ has got some serious [u][b]heft[/b][/u]. Are you going to break in the cab by sticking a 30Hz tone through it all night, or the traditional way - by playing your bass through it..? [/quote] "Heft" is one of my favourite words and is so beautifully descriptive of what big valve amps deliver I think I'll stick with traditional and just plug a BB into it and play some party bass lines - I don't care about the neighbours, one came round once to complain (mid-afternoon) and said he sort of understood because he played guitar but said that I was taking the piss. I told him to @£$% off and grow a pair. Just to clarify and so that you don't get the impression I have a collection of ASBOs, I only ever play through my amp at home when I get a new one or am trying out a fix and need to hear it, which amounts to cumulatively probably two hours a year; otherwise I'm on headphones through my B3.