Huge Hands

About 25 years ago I used to sound for cabaret shows at a well known holiday camp. The venue had a house band (keys, bass, gtr, drums) but a lot of the big shows would be tracked to allow for sound effects, extra instrumentation etc, but mainly chorus backing vox which avoided the need for 10 cast members with variable reverb taps (headset mics) running around the stage and trying to sing while gasping for air when dancing. I remember a latin show we did where I was told by the director to keep the mics always on for reaction "whooping", In rehearsal I suddenly heard a load of crashing and banging. I looked up and realised a cast member had decided to stand and pose with her arm on the percussionist's (MD pretending to be a percussionist) shoulder. Mics off - backing track up! They usually whooped loud enough that you could hear them through one of the principle cast's mics anyway. One of the best ones I remember was a Sinatra show where they toured 3 top brass musicians to add to the house band to look the part and also play solos. The rest of the "big band sound" would be tracked. It used to work really well, especially as the size and sound of the band (tracked) would grow as the story of his career progressed. I also remember playing in a crew only band one year for a staff end or year party where the bass player pulled out due to fear with a week to go (I was the drummer). The guitarist quickly knocked up about 5 songs with bass on track so the gig could still go ahead. So in summary, I can't really knock backing tracks....

Sad times if so. I bought a Roland electronic drum kit there about 11 years ago and the sales guy was really helpful and chucked in about £100 of free sticks with it. I often would buy online from them if competitive on stuff too.

For me, being dropped in the deep end and allowed to bumble along listening to the pieces while I learned was the only way it worked. I had bought some notation books in the past and tried to work it out by myself (I had a head start because I had played trombone in my school brass band reading treble clef) but looking at the books it didn't stick with me either. Bearing mind you are joining a band where you don't know anyone, I did initially have to suffer the looks of disdain from a few musical snobs in the band, but on the whole most either couldn't tell the difference, or were very supportive. If you did reconsider having a crack at it, I guess the main thing to look for is to whether you feel the MD and band would be patient enough to have you make mistakes and "learn on the job". As others have said, these bands often have varying skill levels and may just have been happy to find you, as the reading bit puts a lot of people off. It will also be down to whether you can keep a lid on your own anxieties and personal feelings of "I'm not good enough" which I got a lot (and still do). Believe you me, if I get given a new piece with any semiquavers in it, I still shake with dread every time! (Or quaver triplets with rests in them).... I remember once years ago before I tried to read myself, asking a bass player in a cabaret band how he managed to sight read visiting act's arrangements on gigs, especially the rhythmic patterns and fiddly bits. He said you begin to recognise common patterns in pieces of music which means you can anticipate it coming better without specifically counting or reading in detail. I think he is right there - it certainly gets a bit easier the more you do it.

This was what I was alluding to in my earlier post. I didn't know if it was for copyright reasons or arrangers for these bands don't think we can understand written funky lines, but you often get a lot of simplified/no feel basslines for modern stuff. With these kinds of groups I found out I inevitably ended up playing a lot of stuff I appreciated but didn't really like - and only got a few that I really looked forward to. It means I am often well out of my comfort zone with them. I am a traditional groover not particularly a comfortable widdler, so I don't enjoy any fiddly solo runs that get written for bass or the weird atonal stuff our MD often likes to play. These parts might sound good on a tuba or properly bowed double bass, but not with my sausage fingers waggling around. However, it was a great way to learn to read and then keep my reading up to speed, so I stick with it because of that. I was lucky that when I joined they had an amazing tuba player who I could listen to which helped me understand what I was reading and I could just pretend to play with him at the hard bits! It was only when he left 8 months later that I was left by myself and got properly dropped in the deep end! I am also lucky because as I said before, the MD lets me put my own spin on some things. If that orchestra's arranger is passionate about it being played exactly as he wrote it and won't let you help it be more like the original, then it wouldn't be for me either. Good luck with your new band, hope it pans out.

Erm....sounds a bit of a fiddly bodge for such a lot of money. I would also be concerned as I currently use a Tonebone Bassbone to switch and for the EUB I have the input gain switch for piezo levels selected - I imagine this might not support this and I would need a preamp..... I will keep thinking on it - thanks for the info!

At @Jakester - how are you doing the switching between DB and guitar? Are you able to use the L and R inputs as two completely different sources? I don't own a Stomp, but have looked at them before, but couldn't really justify the money. I have a guitar/EUB setup. I didn't realise they could do this - if so I might rethink!

I do my best to read and play classical and traditional stuff verbatim, its just the more modern/poppy stuff that he lets me let loose on. What I've noticed is that a lot of the conductor scores don't appear to go as far down as the bass parts, or are so big, he's not really looking down there too much, so I get away with more. I don't do anything crazy, just a few added root/5th extra bumps to change the feel or some adjoining runs or fills. He has occasionally come to me and said "this is a bit of a boring arrangement, can you do your thing on it?" Most of it I try in rehearsal first to see if I get a reaction or not. If I don't, or it is a good reaction, I'll keep it in. I do always listen to Euphonium/Bass Trombone/Bari Sax/Bass Clarinet as best I can to make sure I am not trampling or screwing up someone else's part. I am quite lucky in one way that they always struggle to get/keep tuba players, so most of the time I'm kind of on my own at the very bottom lot of the time. Having said that, I do enjoy playing along with a tuba when we do get them as you can split parts/solos/chordy bits and get different feels etc. They also have an amazing drummer who will go with me/take me with him and still be able to sight read the various drum parts for all the little percussion hits etc across multiple scores. If he ever left I would have to think long and hard about staying or not.

Agreed. I remember doing a Queen medley (may have been HL arrangement) thinking I'm about to play the classic bassline to Another One Bites The Dust, and I'm resting - it had been given to bari-sax and bass clarinet! Luckily, our MD, who is really hot on flutes and clarinets playing the exact rhythms "....It's a dotted quaver!!" lets me have a bit more free reign and encourages me to funk things up or make basslines sound more like the original. Although that could be because he realises I'll never get it perfectly as written lol! We did a Michael Jackson medley and he let me add the Billie Jean bassline by ear as again it was on Bari Sax. To the OP - as others have said, you will be massively out of your comfort zone at times but it is great to get your reading up to speed.

I play in a concert band (brass, woodwind) and like you, joined as a reading novice 11 years ago. I found it is the norm for the band to hardly ever play in the original key of a modern piece - I would guestimate the majority of our pieces are usually played in F, Bb and Eb keys (1-3 flats). WIth the concert band, if you want to play along, the easiest way is to find a video of another concert band playing the same arrangement. I am guessing that your arranger may be trying to be clever and make their own arrangements for an orchestra, which means there likely won't be any other recordings, unless your orchestra has played it elsewhere before and been filmed/posted? I wonder how that works with copyright? As far as I understood it, bands like ours have to buy scores and with that comes some performance rights? I always I assumed that was why whenever you get a famous group medley (ie Abba, The Beatles. Elton John etc) you either get one really famous one and a load of less famous songs, or the arrangements are so butchered they don't sound anywhere near the original. I thought this was because it was too expensive for the publishers to secure the copyright from the original artists....? I could be very wrong and overthinking it all of course.... Another one to watch out for with these kind of bands/orchestras - if original scores, you may get "tuba" or "basses" parts which can be written an octave lower than bass guitar parts. Although I know what the notes are - I often struggle if sight reading faster parts and trying to transpose up an octave at the same time!

I bought some last year. The ones on the fretboard are all still there, but the side dots have all gone apart from the 12th fret. I think it was mainly down to the way I pick the guitar up when in a stand/taking it from the gigbag by the neck, my (probably greasy) paws were sliding them off.

Keyboards played by Kirk's MD and grammy award winner Shaun Martin, who sadly passed earlier this year after suffering a stroke in his 40s. Such a talent....RIP.

Most stuff nowadays is 220v to align with Europe. Although UK used to be quoted as 240V, once you get a few yards from a substation, it is usually dropped to 220 - 230 anyway. The average nowadays seems to be around 230v from what I have seen. The only time I have ever seen stuff suffer with over-voltage in the UK where a local substation on private land had been boosted to 250v to try and maintain supply to buildings much further along the road, and computerised stuff near it was crashing, but nothing dangerous. PS I am not a qualified electrician but have dealt with it a lot over the years. I'm sure others on here know the regs better tan me.

I was a huge fan when they first started and saw them in a large venue, then arena after the first and second albums. I still listen to them occasionally but it was just never the same for me after Stuart Zender left. I am not knocking Nick Ffyfe or Paul Turner, both amazing players, but it is just not the same for me. There was just that something extra with SZ. I don't think I could go and see them without him, and especially now Toby has gone too (RIP). it would feel like cheating to me.

My best purchase this year? Forscore app on the iPad. Dusted off my boy's iPad which he doesn't use any more and paid £19.99 for the app. Has allowed me to scan all of my local concert band sheet music into the iPad. I also bought a cheap Joyo footpedal to turn the pages. It is dead easy to use and has transformed rehearsals as I am not spending ages frantically trying to find that one piece stuck to the back of another while the band starts playing. Playing my first actual concert with it on Saturday. Was dead easy to set up a playlist for the night and drag and drop the various scores into it. It now all clicks through the concert in order. Worst purchase? I guess the Joyo MA-10 practice amp. I can't complain too much as it was under £40 on offer on Amazon and it works as a practice amp in my home office, but it buzzes like mad unless you earth yourself on the strings and the sound is not to my liking. but I kept it and it does a job, so no major biggie.