Huge Hands

For me, being dropped in the deep end and allowed to bumble along listening to the pieces while I learned was the only way it worked. I had bought some notation books in the past and tried to work it out by myself (I had a head start because I had played trombone in my school brass band reading treble clef) but looking at the books it didn't stick with me either. Bearing mind you are joining a band where you don't know anyone, I did initially have to suffer the looks of disdain from a few musical snobs in the band, but on the whole most either couldn't tell the difference, or were very supportive. If you did reconsider having a crack at it, I guess the main thing to look for is to whether you feel the MD and band would be patient enough to have you make mistakes and "learn on the job". As others have said, these bands often have varying skill levels and may just have been happy to find you, as the reading bit puts a lot of people off. It will also be down to whether you can keep a lid on your own anxieties and personal feelings of "I'm not good enough" which I got a lot (and still do). Believe you me, if I get given a new piece with any semiquavers in it, I still shake with dread every time! (Or quaver triplets with rests in them).... I remember once years ago before I tried to read myself, asking a bass player in a cabaret band how he managed to sight read visiting act's arrangements on gigs, especially the rhythmic patterns and fiddly bits. He said you begin to recognise common patterns in pieces of music which means you can anticipate it coming better without specifically counting or reading in detail. I think he is right there - it certainly gets a bit easier the more you do it.

This was what I was alluding to in my earlier post. I didn't know if it was for copyright reasons or arrangers for these bands don't think we can understand written funky lines, but you often get a lot of simplified/no feel basslines for modern stuff. With these kinds of groups I found out I inevitably ended up playing a lot of stuff I appreciated but didn't really like - and only got a few that I really looked forward to. It means I am often well out of my comfort zone with them. I am a traditional groover not particularly a comfortable widdler, so I don't enjoy any fiddly solo runs that get written for bass or the weird atonal stuff our MD often likes to play. These parts might sound good on a tuba or properly bowed double bass, but not with my sausage fingers waggling around. However, it was a great way to learn to read and then keep my reading up to speed, so I stick with it because of that. I was lucky that when I joined they had an amazing tuba player who I could listen to which helped me understand what I was reading and I could just pretend to play with him at the hard bits! It was only when he left 8 months later that I was left by myself and got properly dropped in the deep end! I am also lucky because as I said before, the MD lets me put my own spin on some things. If that orchestra's arranger is passionate about it being played exactly as he wrote it and won't let you help it be more like the original, then it wouldn't be for me either. Good luck with your new band, hope it pans out.

Erm....sounds a bit of a fiddly bodge for such a lot of money. I would also be concerned as I currently use a Tonebone Bassbone to switch and for the EUB I have the input gain switch for piezo levels selected - I imagine this might not support this and I would need a preamp..... I will keep thinking on it - thanks for the info!

At @Jakester - how are you doing the switching between DB and guitar? Are you able to use the L and R inputs as two completely different sources? I don't own a Stomp, but have looked at them before, but couldn't really justify the money. I have a guitar/EUB setup. I didn't realise they could do this - if so I might rethink!

I do my best to read and play classical and traditional stuff verbatim, its just the more modern/poppy stuff that he lets me let loose on. What I've noticed is that a lot of the conductor scores don't appear to go as far down as the bass parts, or are so big, he's not really looking down there too much, so I get away with more. I don't do anything crazy, just a few added root/5th extra bumps to change the feel or some adjoining runs or fills. He has occasionally come to me and said "this is a bit of a boring arrangement, can you do your thing on it?" Most of it I try in rehearsal first to see if I get a reaction or not. If I don't, or it is a good reaction, I'll keep it in. I do always listen to Euphonium/Bass Trombone/Bari Sax/Bass Clarinet as best I can to make sure I am not trampling or screwing up someone else's part. I am quite lucky in one way that they always struggle to get/keep tuba players, so most of the time I'm kind of on my own at the very bottom lot of the time. Having said that, I do enjoy playing along with a tuba when we do get them as you can split parts/solos/chordy bits and get different feels etc. They also have an amazing drummer who will go with me/take me with him and still be able to sight read the various drum parts for all the little percussion hits etc across multiple scores. If he ever left I would have to think long and hard about staying or not.

Agreed. I remember doing a Queen medley (may have been HL arrangement) thinking I'm about to play the classic bassline to Another One Bites The Dust, and I'm resting - it had been given to bari-sax and bass clarinet! Luckily, our MD, who is really hot on flutes and clarinets playing the exact rhythms "....It's a dotted quaver!!" lets me have a bit more free reign and encourages me to funk things up or make basslines sound more like the original. Although that could be because he realises I'll never get it perfectly as written lol! We did a Michael Jackson medley and he let me add the Billie Jean bassline by ear as again it was on Bari Sax. To the OP - as others have said, you will be massively out of your comfort zone at times but it is great to get your reading up to speed.

I play in a concert band (brass, woodwind) and like you, joined as a reading novice 11 years ago. I found it is the norm for the band to hardly ever play in the original key of a modern piece - I would guestimate the majority of our pieces are usually played in F, Bb and Eb keys (1-3 flats). WIth the concert band, if you want to play along, the easiest way is to find a video of another concert band playing the same arrangement. I am guessing that your arranger may be trying to be clever and make their own arrangements for an orchestra, which means there likely won't be any other recordings, unless your orchestra has played it elsewhere before and been filmed/posted? I wonder how that works with copyright? As far as I understood it, bands like ours have to buy scores and with that comes some performance rights? I always I assumed that was why whenever you get a famous group medley (ie Abba, The Beatles. Elton John etc) you either get one really famous one and a load of less famous songs, or the arrangements are so butchered they don't sound anywhere near the original. I thought this was because it was too expensive for the publishers to secure the copyright from the original artists....? I could be very wrong and overthinking it all of course.... Another one to watch out for with these kind of bands/orchestras - if original scores, you may get "tuba" or "basses" parts which can be written an octave lower than bass guitar parts. Although I know what the notes are - I often struggle if sight reading faster parts and trying to transpose up an octave at the same time!

I bought some last year. The ones on the fretboard are all still there, but the side dots have all gone apart from the 12th fret. I think it was mainly down to the way I pick the guitar up when in a stand/taking it from the gigbag by the neck, my (probably greasy) paws were sliding them off.

Keyboards played by Kirk's MD and grammy award winner Shaun Martin, who sadly passed earlier this year after suffering a stroke in his 40s. Such a talent....RIP.

Most stuff nowadays is 220v to align with Europe. Although UK used to be quoted as 240V, once you get a few yards from a substation, it is usually dropped to 220 - 230 anyway. The average nowadays seems to be around 230v from what I have seen. The only time I have ever seen stuff suffer with over-voltage in the UK where a local substation on private land had been boosted to 250v to try and maintain supply to buildings much further along the road, and computerised stuff near it was crashing, but nothing dangerous. PS I am not a qualified electrician but have dealt with it a lot over the years. I'm sure others on here know the regs better tan me.

I was a huge fan when they first started and saw them in a large venue, then arena after the first and second albums. I still listen to them occasionally but it was just never the same for me after Stuart Zender left. I am not knocking Nick Ffyfe or Paul Turner, both amazing players, but it is just not the same for me. There was just that something extra with SZ. I don't think I could go and see them without him, and especially now Toby has gone too (RIP). it would feel like cheating to me.

My best purchase this year? Forscore app on the iPad. Dusted off my boy's iPad which he doesn't use any more and paid £19.99 for the app. Has allowed me to scan all of my local concert band sheet music into the iPad. I also bought a cheap Joyo footpedal to turn the pages. It is dead easy to use and has transformed rehearsals as I am not spending ages frantically trying to find that one piece stuck to the back of another while the band starts playing. Playing my first actual concert with it on Saturday. Was dead easy to set up a playlist for the night and drag and drop the various scores into it. It now all clicks through the concert in order. Worst purchase? I guess the Joyo MA-10 practice amp. I can't complain too much as it was under £40 on offer on Amazon and it works as a practice amp in my home office, but it buzzes like mad unless you earth yourself on the strings and the sound is not to my liking. but I kept it and it does a job, so no major biggie.

I have both a Sire V7 (1st gen) and a 2001 ish 5 string Squier P5. I love them both, but I keep going back to the Squier due to the wider string spacing and it just feeling right in my hands. However, I had originally bought the P5 to strip and mod. Once I upgraded the pickups in it, I realised it was amazing and didn't want to spoil it, so bought a second one. Even before I stripped it, the neck was really unstable and has been a bit of a pig, resulting in an unhappy personal project bass. If you asked me based on the first one, I would say go for a a Squier. If the second one, I would say don't touch with a bargepole. I guess trying before committing is the best advice others have already given. ....and I have argued this point on other threads - although the Sire hardware on mine have always looked a bit toy-town and painted Halfords silver, they do the job and the guitar usually stays in tune, even in the gigbag. I've never felt to need to swap them out.

I've seen it happen with a few bands over the years - everyone is psyched up to rehearse and then someone pulls out at the last minute - do you all cancel (and potentially lose a rehearsal room booking deposit) or do you ask someone you know to sit in to save the time? For those that say "I don't rehearse" - not everyone has constant gigs lined up all the time and the getting together is part of the fun. In the cases I have seen this happen, it is usually because the rest of the band are disgruntled with an unreliable member, and hope the threat of this happening will get said member worried about their position in the band and sort themselves out, or as others have said, if they find someone gels while depping, they may just sack their current band member and go with the dep. I seem to remember this happening with a drummer once, but the dep was not so good and the plan backfired as it gave the original drummer more leeway to take the p*ss once he knew he was the best they had so far. Didn't take us much longer to find an even better one though....

I was about to say I have seen a few rockabilly guys do that over the years. However, I feel if I tried it with mine, with my weight, it would be an Ikea flatpack in seconds......

Mine all have bumps and chips in the top edge of the headstock, where I keep bumping it into things! On my Fender style basses, the farthest peg is usually bent in some way too. It is not through wanton-style rage rampages, I am just really clumsy! The first time I bent a peg was when I was a teenager - on a bus doorway through the gig-bag on my back...

Ha ha, I actually meant we wouldn't get away with sitting in those positions for a journey now in terms of cramp and DVT, but I know what you mean!

As a teenager I remember doing a gig in Stockton in the early 90's (we only lived in Gateshead so it wasn't that far). We borrowed a Sherpa van (the smallest one). I was in the middle seat, but even at 15 I was already my current 6'3". I think my Dad was our roadie on that gig so drove the van, but for him to change gear I had to sit diagonally with my feet in the passenger footwell and the bass player sat in the passenger seat next to me with his feet on the dashboard all the way. He was about 15 years older than me and a serving police officer, so I figured we'd be ok with that configuration if stopped, (but not so good if in a wreck). Thankfully we didn't but it was a challenge even for that short distance..... Wouldn't get away with it now.

I have Labella Deep Talkin' flats on most of my basses, but as other have alluded to, they are getting very expensive these days. As a DB player, you may be used to expensive string prices though! If you want to dip your toe into the flatwound world, I did buy some really cheap Harley Benton Flats from Thomann last year (about £13) and they seem quite good for what they are. I put a 4 string set on my HB 51 Precision copy and they seem fine, although feel a lighter gauge than the Labellas. (That could equally be me just being used to playing 5 strings nowadays) I did buy a 5 string set too, but they are still in the packet at the moment. Even with Thomann's £10 delivery charge from Germany, they still worked out quite cheap (although I had bought the guitar and strings together, so I passed the free delivery threshold). Just a thought if you are not sure you want to fork out that much as a trial.

i used to do pro sound in multiple venues in the late 90s/early noughties. We used a lot of Behringer outboard gear, such as quad gates and quad compressors. The running joke back then was everything seemed to cost £99, no matter the model! A lot of visiting engineers sniffed at the name, but they worked for our needs. We didn't need to hear noiseless perfection in a venue with 1500 drunk punters in it. We would get the occasional failure just out of warranty, but at £99 we were happy to chuck them in the bin and buy another one - which would have been a bigger issue if we had been using top of the range gear. 20 years on I now own a BD121 and a UMC-22 interface and am very happy with them, thank you very much.

I just checked that out myself. If you click "order form" it mentions no orders being taken due to the pandemic/ensuing backlog, so wonder if they are still active, or just bad at updating their website? I guess as the price is in US dollars, they are a US company? Did you have to pay import on them? Sorry for all the questions!

I have to be honest, I was being a bit lazy so just gave the dot locations a good hard rub with a dry cloth. I probably should have used something more liquid but couldn't think of anything I had that I was confident wouldn't dissolve the neck or something 🤣

Aaaaah - the classic "DFA" button or fader (Does F**k All). It is a classic often used control in the pro sound engineer's toolkit!

I don't know if this helps?