Huge Hands

Are you talking treble, or bass clef? To me, as a bass clef reader, the C that most Concert band music plays (my 3rd fret on the A string) and nearest the middle of the bass clef is pitched (in terms of a tuba and other instruments) as a C two ledger lines below the stave. I assume by saying the 17th fret on the G string, you mean the one in the middle of the treble clef? I am terrible at music theory other than being able to read bass guitar music, I just thought it best to post this question for context as it may be confusing the OP as it probably would me. I would call the C two spaces up in the bass clef as middle C, as that it what it means to me (but I know not theoretically right). I think Jakester is suffering from exactly the same as me - what I was trying to say in my edit was that when reading these notes on the fly you always naturally want to fret in the same place - Bb is 1st fret on the A string, C is the third etc, but once the runs get higher, you get to the G string and then have to slide all the way up the string to get the higher ones. Quite often, the best way is to start higher up the neck but on a lower string (i.e. Bb at 6th fret on E string, C at 8th) which means you can keep your hand much more still and get a lot higher. Sounds obvious and simple, but you need to know the whole neck in terms of what notes are where back to front and I don't - although I'm getting better. This is down to my poor training (mainly self taught) than anything else! Most sting bass parts are written for 4 string DBs and there are very few Electric bass parts that go outside of a 4 string range other than a couple that go for low B string notes. My summation is, you don't need a 5 or 6 string for the job, but if you want one, try one!

Hi Jakester, I play in a concert band too. You'll find a lot of older music (i.e. not the latest pop/movie music arrangements) don't have string or electric bass parts at all and you'll end up having to read tuba parts. These are tricky because they're usually an octave lower than where you're use to reading (i.e.several ledger lines below the stave) and you'll have to transpose up an octave (hence people saying the BG is a transposing instrument). I still find sight reading and transposing quaver and faster runs tricky when it's low G and Fs 4-5 ledger lines below the stave, especially when you're in a key of several flats or sharps! We once had a guest MD who was a bass player and told me just to lift all tuba parts up an octave, but I like to pick and choose as I play a 5 and it is nice to make the band rumble with a low C or D note for effect. I would advise trying a 5 as Chris_B said as some of the more modern arrangements even with bass guitar or electric bass parts tend to throw in the odd low Eb or D. Once you learn the neck more. as he also said - it does give you more options for fingering notes without moving when trying to sight read runs etc. My two other tips are: The string bass parts will have a lot of held notes that are intended for arco playing with a bow on double bass. I do occasionally drag my DB out but am not a "bower" so will try to ring the string as long as I can and re-pluck on the first beat of a bar to try and make it a subconscious pulse and less obvious it's not just a constant note. The tuba parts often have string/electric bass cues in them, but there won't be any tuba cues in the string parts. If you have no tuba, you may be sitting resting whilst everyone is wondering why the bass is missing. I often have to keep an eye on both parts in complex arrangements (we rarely have a tuba) as there may be some nice pedal notes in a quiet bit, or a little tuba solo that is not in your part and it needs covering. I don't know why they don't put the cues in, maybe they think such bands will always have a tuba.... EDIT: I would add it is rare that in my experience I have seen for parts to go dead high in concert band music. There are a lot of pieces that seem to sit more naturally with fingering around the 5th - 9th fret, so playing Ebs and F's on the A string around fret 6 and 9 allows you to easily do runs up to high Eb's and Fs, but it's not often?

Ok, so I've just watched the Hootenanny on catch up as I was at a friend's house on NYE and they insisted on not watching TV until the fireworks, then we got the rest of the Madness gig. My observations: It appeared to be a show of two house bands, Jools big band and Rudimental. I preferred the latter, which I am surprised to hear myself say. I really liked the Hot 8 brass ensemble but it sounded like Earl was struggling to fill his Sousaphone with air, the bass seemed to drop/slow at times. I was really impressed with Jess Glynne's vocal tone. Marc Almond reminded me of someone's Dad trying to look cool with a load of hair dye and hoofing it through a karaoke. I still don't like Gilson Lavis' drumming style to the point it bugs me. Why they didn't let Dave Swift play bass but kept Gilson on Chic astounds me. Micky Bubbles is a cliche I shouldn't like, but he does have a great voice and makes it look effortless. I liked the raw energy of The Record Company, and the way they got the crowd going on their second track. I could feel myself switching off whenever it went Boogie Woogie, which this year seemed to be more than ever (every time Jools' band played). I would like to add, before I get shot down in flames, these are only my personal opinions. I don't doubt Gilson Lavis is a much better drummer than I ever hoped to be, but I would have loved to have seen a drummer like Rudimental's get a shot on that gig. I also loved the original Tainted Love by Marc Almond, and I've never attempted to play anything bigger than a trombone, so imagine Sousaphone is quite difficult to play well. I'm sure (and hope) these people are not losing sleep over what I think. In summary, there were a few things I didn't like, but plenty that I did. I hope the show manages to continue in some format, but with less indulgence to Mr Holland's favourite style of music. Having said that, if it was my show, I'd probably use every excuse to play my favourite stuff too...

I watched it assuming it was their attempt at a Spinal Tap or Office thing, and enjoyed it. I thought some of it was a bit odd though - a (I presume) joke where he kept going "don't tell me it's Mum" for ages before saying "it's not your Mum" (cue me laughing) - only for him to go "it's your sister" and mention the untimely death of his sibling. I am still not sure how much of that was real and how much was scripted......probably just how they want it, so good on them.

On my personal level, I have a massive enjoyment of watching R&B/Hip Hop/Nu Soul etc played by real musicians rather than listening to an album based on samples. This is why I love checking out new artists on Tiny Desk, Jools Holland etc. I don't think I would have searched them out/paid to see them otherwise. This is why I love live shows and would hate to lose them fully from mainstream TV. It goes with the argument I used to have with the guitarist in our vintage R&B band who wanted every note played verbatim from the original records - I used to argue that the original musos (probably not the guys who cut the tracks anyway) would have taken them on the road and changed them up over time. Hence wanting to see them further down the line live too.

So the gist I'm getting from this is: We still want a live music show on TV. We don't want Jools or his Boogie Woogie Piano. We are scared of getting someone like Chris Evans/Jo Whiley/Lauren Laverne instead, so is it better the devil.....? That pretty much sums up my own feelings. My concern is those that seem to think a live music show is not required at all. I'm too old to be classed as a "yoof" any more, so what do I know?

Probably dBu or dBV of the line level, not dBSPL in terms of acoustic energy. As someone said, a fancy lighty up thing for your rack....

I thought that too but just looked it up and he'd just turned 20 at Woodstock. Maybe he was 16 or 17 when he joined? Still very young and mega talented though!

My advice would be to try it for a bit. As I have said many times before, although I agree the tuners look cheap, my V7 hardly goes out of tune, even when being transported in a gig bag. I'm not sure why everyone is so quick to get rid of the originals?

When my first wife left home, I thought "Sod you, I'm going to put the double bass back in the dining room", after she had insisted it was relegated to a corner in the hall. Before our (then) 2 year old son came to stay for his first weekend, I leant it into a corner of the dining room and tried banging and knocking it. "That's not going anywhere" I thought... Little did I know he would manage to get behind it and push it. Like a felled tree it tipped forward.. The neck hit the archway into the lounge and the whole thing exploded on its many seams. I was left with a neck and several panels. It was a "cheapy" Gear 4 Music one, but still cost me £400 of my finest kebab tokens at the time. It took a long time to find someone who was able to glue it back together under tension without it exploding again... 7 years later, I still haven't let him forget it 😂

And the award for over patronising whilst not getting the joke goes to....

Hi Pete, I play the same in a wind band so will try to help a little, although I'm not the greatest at theory. I was told that Tuba is written an octave below bass guitar, so the B two ledger lines below the stave on a tuba part is the same as the B on the second line of a stave of a BG part in terms of pitch and voicing. With this in mind, I once had a visiting conductor (who was also a pro west end bass player) who told me "just transpose everything you read up an octave". He was probably right, but as I play a 5, I like to keep the notes as low as possible so play the low C's and D's as much as I can, mainly to help the band "rumble". The only thing that worked for me was to learn the low notes as written. I still struggle when I come across a fast run and have to jump it up an octave, especially if I've started low and run out of fretboard! If you have access to their library, a lot of wind band scores often have a string bass or electric bass guitar part which is written in your octave. Be warned though, if you're the only bass player, if they are different and not just transposed, the tuba parts often have BG cues, but the BG parts don't have tuba so you may be sitting there resting whilst everyone is looking at you wondering where the low end is! My only other tip is, if there are tuba players, concentrate on playing the main music. Any fiddly semiquaver bits - let the tubas handle them and just pretend you're playing at this point 😉

Welcome. I did a similar switch, although a lot earlier on in my musical journey. The only problem I found was I kept getting invited to join bands that needed both a drummer and bass player, and often ended up back on the drums as it was much easier to find bass players (not good ones might I add) than drummers. I do try to keep my feet (and hands) in both camps as much as I can though!

Quote: Anyway, back on subject, sometimes mic'ing up the percussion can get a little ... strange. Thanks @Happy Jack - that made my day! That tractor sounds a lot more reliable and smokes less than a lot of drummers I know!

Interesting that my 16 year old 2L petrol Honda C-RV which loves to drink the stuff is exempt from this!

Hi Andy, I guess I'm a bit the opposite of you. I was gigging a lot until early last year when I got sick. Nothing life threatening, but enough that I had to drop out of my various bands. I can manage about an hour and a half with the bass, then I get too sore/tired. Lugging gear around is hard because I've spent so long housebound, my back muscles can't cope. I keep hearing little projects that I could get involved in, but I'm not well enough and they pass me by and fizzle out. I keep looking at my gear and wondering if I should move some on, but I'm desperate to get back into it! I've just been referred to a new hospital/specialist, so I'm hoping my problems will get better soon! I recently tried to be a good person and permanent loan a friend's teenage son my old gigging Squier bass (the one I used before I got my Sire). I wasn't using even when I was well, and should be happy it's being used, but when I see photos of it on his Facebook, I get reminded of the gigs I played on it, and want it back! How silly, I know!

My question would be - has your drummer played to click before? As a former drummer, I tried it for the first time in a studio setting back in my uni days. I thought I would need to hear the click really well and got them to turn it up and up - til it was almost bashing my ear drums across my head into each other! Suffice to say, it wasn't great playing or a great track. A few years later, when working as a live sound engineer, I spoke to one of the pro drummers about it and listened to his click during a rehearsal, it was much quieter. He had it at a level where you barely heard it, then if you started falling behind/speeding up, your brain would suddenly notice it and concentrate on it. When I then tried it a year later at these sort of levels with my own band, it worked really well for me. When on time, the click almost disappears and you are able to enjoy the music. As others have said, depending on what is on the track, you may not need to hear it at all, especially if it is washy strings or effects. I'm saying this because in my opinion, some drummers will never get their heads round playing with a click. Some may just need some adjustment on their levels and then get it fine. Apologies if your drummer is well experienced and knows this all already!

Careful what you wish for - you could end up with Chris Evans....

As a kid, when I first started saying I wanted to be a drummer, my Dad's mate would lend me cassette tapes of Buddy rich just soloing constantly for about 60mins. It used to turn me right off. However, I was later given a tape of him playing with his big band, and in a musical context, thought he was amazing.

They (Steve White) claimed it was the top drummers mentioned by other drummers. He also said putting a list together was tricky - "...the 30+ drummers involved in this program... " which would suggest only a vote of 1.5 was needed to get on the list of 20! One drummer (the guy from the Libertines) suggested Weckl, Colauita and Jim Keltner were obvious disciples of Steve Gadd, which was obviously their single justification for not including them as Gadd was on there. I totally agree that Grohl is nowhere near their talent, but I guess if you ask drummers who grew up with Nirvana who their most influential drummer was? I must admit that watching by Nirvana unplugged back in the day, I was inspired to try Hot Rods and used them for many years in low level gigs. I don't think the show was perfect at all, but there were some interesting interviews and playing. EDIT: @ezbass according to my Sky box that was episode 4 of 4, but happy to have more!

Dave Grohl is on the list. Dave Weckl did partake in the program - his Buddy Rich impersonation (playing, not personally) was very impressive.

Sorry NJ, I did wait nearly a week for this reason. I can't keep everyone happy 😉