Huge Hands

Aaah yes, I've been there many times. Using an unknown rig in an unknown venue is not fun, but again - if you do make it sound decent, then you're the hero of the hour. I learned you have to have a pretty thick skin to do it - there will always be an armchair hi-fi enthusiast standing near your desk who will tell you it sounds s**t - even if you think it's your best ever mix. My rule of thumb was always "sound engineers only get noticed if they're s**t" - it is rare to get plaudits in the live game!

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1424268910' post='2694546'] All I know is, from my very limited experience of live sound, I would not want that job!! I can mix recorded music all day long, but live sound is somehow beyond me. [/quote] I loved the challenge of unmuting and then having to get it right quickly. It was even better when you had the luxury of doing front of house (FOH) mixing with a separate monitor engineer. Mixing something like 8 separate monitor mixes from the same desk and channels as FOH is not so fun, but you do feel like you've conquered the world when it works for you! Sitting in a studio listening to the same track over and over again used to bore me to tears and probably explains why I don't have a home recording setup. Each to their own of course!

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1424263279' post='2694477'] Surely the vocals are the most acoustic instrument on the stage and also normally the quietest but also the most important from an audience PoV. Therefore it makes total sense to get them sounding good and mix the rest of the band around that. [/quote] I'm not disagreeing with other methods if that's what works for people. Personally, I liked to get the band setup and mixed, often to a subgroup so you can turn the band mix up or down if you have the luxury of a big rig. You can then do the vocals and bring the already mixed band back up with them. I found the last thing a vocalist would want to do is wear out their voice for ages in a soundcheck while you're trying to balance everything to them afterwards, so would always do them last as this was the least time consuming method for a vocalist. Maybe I'm just used to working with prima donna singers I would also add, as I spent a lot of time being an in-house engineer in a large venue, I used to prefer it when bands didn't soundcheck at all as I knew my rig and room so well I could usually set them up very close to what they asked for during a line check before the gig. I'm sure many musos will be disgusted by the thought of not soundchecking, but the difference between an empty reverberant room and one filled with 1500+ bodies is often massively different anyway - and great for the lazy bugger I was - I didn't have to write loads of settings down for each band in the pre-digital desk days!

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1424187210' post='2693611'] I've often wondered (as a non-sound engineer) why this doesn't happen more often - after all, how many people go to a show thinking "Oh, I'm really looking forward to the bass drum sound tonight?" I'm sure most sound engineers will come up with plausible arguments for doing it their way but great to hear somebody is bucking the trend and getting it right. [/quote] Probably because like any trade or skill, you learn from watching others and this is how it is usually done. As drums are often the most acoustic instrument on stage, it does make sense to get them under control first and then add things to them, but as with any artistic endeavour, I don't believe that there should be any rules on this, and if you (as in the engineer) want to start by checking the organists pedal board, then do it and stand by your sound. Also, in my experience, once guitarists and bassists, keyboards etc have plugged in and start to sound check, they want to start widdling around and won't shut up when you want to get to the drums. However, they will often sit together as a group offstage waiting for the drummer to do his thing if he's first. Cheddatom is totally correct though, there is no reason why kick drum and bass can't live together, and loudly. My issue I was talking about was these huge rigs where the thump of the kick was whacking you in the chest and making you nauseous, and it was detracting from the rest of the sound.

As a former sound engineer (and drummer) myself, I think it often stems from the fact that the norm is for engineers to start with the drums during sound check and then balance from there. If they've spent 3 hours getting the bass drum right they may have run out of time to concentrate on the rest :-). All silliness aside though, I was always a "bassy" mixer due to my preference and love of bass, funk and soul. I was doing it in the early noughties and did notice a trend of younger engineers coming through who were all pulling the bass back and then just mainly having sickeningly loud thudding kick drums in the bottom end of the mix. You also have to remember that in a lot of venues, the spot at which the engineer is mixing (typically the back of the room) may be different to a spot where you're standing. He (chauvanistically assuming it is a him) might be hearing resonance which is causing him to pull the bass out, which is making it obvious where you are if you're not getting the resonance? That sort of stuff is more relevant if he's a visiting engineer and doesn't know the venue. Just my ten penneth of course - he could be just a poor engineer!

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1423789687' post='2689182'] ...and a magazine called The Mix, as well as some issues of Home & Studio Recording. [/quote] I used to subscribe to H&SR. It was then turned into The Mix, which was a lot thicker, IIRC was supposed to be more DJ friendly and also came with a disc each month with samples and sounds on it. I have a feeling the price shot up to compensate for all this too. I remember the first few issues I got, it felt like they were trying to go all "Loaded" or "Nuts" in their writing style, and the CDs felt like they'd been cobbled together in 5 minutes. Not something you'd expect from a mag trying to review the best in recording and sound. Suffice to say I cancelled my subscription after a few issues. I have a feeling I wasn't the only one. Harrumph.

Aaah - ok - hadn't seen one of those before. The guy demoing the cello (or is it an omnibass?) with the cream top on - it looks a bit close to the body for me and I think his arm doesn't look as though it would be that comfortable. However, the shot of the guy playing the gig it looks better -perhaps he's playing a bigger double bass sized instrument?

Hi Owen, do you mean the boomerang strap thingy? I bought one, but I have to confess I've only ever tried it - I've not gigged with it. In my trial, it did manage to balance it in an upright position. I liked the idea of it but I felt that I wouldn't want to spend a gig with it over my shoulder - when I can just screw it to the stand and walk off when I want. Sometimes though, when I get a bit excited, I do want to swing it around a bit and the stand is quite limiting in that way. I probably should have gone for the end pin kit instead I reckon.... Are you anywhere near the South East? You'd be welcome to try mine....

I posted that on my FB a while ago and got about 1 "like". Even my mates don't believe it.....

From the title, I thought this was going to be a thread about fabled fantastic blokes who "know how to treat a woman", putting all of us mysogynistic old farts to shame.....

Isn't it something the slap players do/did? I seem to remember that Russell Jackson who used to play with B.B. King in the late 70's early 80's had a J pickup there for his slapping?

I just bought the Roland TD11KV kit in January, for me to keep up my old chops and for Mini-Hands to learn on in a house whose neighbours wouldn't appreciate the whole live kit banging away. I have to say it is fantastic so far. I think I might try and mod the fixed hi-hat with separate pedal for a real stand at some point, but it's only a minor niggle in the grand scheme of things. I managed to get some free extra kit patches from Roland and I think one of them is so good I would be tempted to play it live... if I ever did drum gigs any more!

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1422440402' post='2672558'] The Retro Two10 is designed to be predominantly used horizontally - that's why it has a crossover inside to give it good dispersion that way around. We've put feet on the side so customers can use it vertically if that helps in a difficult acoustic situation (it can help in boomy/muddy rooms) but it's not how the cab is designed to look best or sound best. [/quote] Duly noted Alex, but I have to say that when only using one cab stood on the floor, it feels a bit too low down to sit horizontally (have to bend down to adjust my head!), so it feels like the natural thing to do to put it on its side. I was using it again last night in this way and was absolutely loving it - sounds really good across the range. If you're saying it's even better horizontally, then all the better I say - will try this next time!

Erm... to be honest, the badge doesn't bother me, I just mentioned it because I know it had been a bone of contention for a lot of others on another thread. If you've ever met me and seen the clothes I wear, you will know that appearances are not the highest priority on my list! Just as an update, I used the "mini rig" again last night - one cab on its side running from one channel of the LG1000. I am loving the sound of this speaker so far. I'm getting the mellow tone I love, but it sounds so much more controlled and not as resonant as my old cabs when you really push the low end, without it sounding like it's being limited or has run out of steam. There is still plenty more oomph when you need it. Happy customer so far. I know that privately Alex has told me he's very excited by these designs and is keen to see them out there and being enjoyed - all good here!

Bigwan, glad to hear you've finally got yours. I still can't believe you weren't prioritised, but I can't help but be selfishly be glad I didn't have to wait any longer myself . I will PM you the email Alex sent me regarding the delay explanation.

Alex's explanation of the static badges: [i]"When we started on the Retro10 cabs we put quite a lot of time into trying to do a square or round logo for horizonal or vertical stacking but never managed anything we were totally happy with. One that physically rotates would be a rattly nightmare on cabs this powerful - it's hard enough damping a steel grill!"[/i]

I have just had an interesting email from Alex who has obviously seen this thread. He has taken the time to follow up and explain why there were some delays experienced, and why the badges don't spin. I think in terms of balance, it is only fair that I post that he says that the delays had been caused by a combination of difficult circumstances in 2014, and that he feels that they should soon be through the backlog and building stock to make the wait for delivery much better in 2015 for any prospective buyers.

Hi Martin, yep - any time for an A/B - just let me know! Would be good to get some other opinions on them too! I'm glad I went with the 4 ohm as they're suited to my LG1000 - might have to look into whether there are any other 2 channel amps in case it ever goes down! I couldn't justify having 3 cabs - whether that be due to cash or the gigs I do!

I've just started a separate review thread of mine - sorry to split it up - was trying not to hijack yours!

P.P.S. Anyone want to buy an Ashdown MAG 210 combo or 115T cab?

Well everyone, I finally received my 2 cabs from Barefaced on Saturday - a pair of 4 ohm Retro 210s. I have had a couple of band situations in the last two days where I was able to use them, so thought I'd post my opinions so far: I tore a back muscle this year whilst carrying my Ashdown gear, so wanted something lighter. I mainly play 5 strings, and love that low trouser flapping rumble I was getting from my B string through my 15" cab. Years ago, I had a quick go with Merton's then Compact (one of the first ones) with obbm's Ashdown LG1000 head. We were only able to play at low volumes due to it being in his flat, but I thought it sounded lovely. With this, and as Alex's USP was low weight, I looked at his website, but he doesn't do 15" loaded Compacts anymore. I decided to email him and ask him what he could offer. Once I'd said what I wanted, he suggested this new Retro 210 cab he'd designed. I (and I realise a lot of people will disagree with me on this) like a very warm, deep mellow tone with little or no bark or bite. I was very sceptical as I didn't think that a 2x10 cab would be able to push the volume of air and give me the sound I like. He told me they would, so I agreed to order them and utilise his 1 month return offer if I didn't like them. On Monday, I used both cabs (one each on a channel on my Ashdown LG1000), with my NS 5 string EUB and my Squier Precision V (with Wizard pickups). Last night, I used one cab on its side with my Precision V in a smaller room. I have to say in both cases, I had loads of headroom, and they sounded great! I especially liked the sound of the "mini rig" last night. Where I used to love my trousers flapping with the low B-string, I still have this but have realised the sound I thought I loved was the driver maxing out and farting. The sound is now a lot tighter and controlled without losing the force - fantastic! I will continue to play with them over the rest of the month, but based on my experience so far, I would have thought I won't be asking to return them! I probably need to play with my more "flat" basses to give them a thorough evaluation (I had the Wizards wound especially to suit my sound) - but the NS EUB sounded lovely through them. However, the main thing above all of this is the weight! I know this is why I contacted Alex in the first place, but it still amazes me how light they are. It was fantastic to walk into the venue last night with my gig bag over my shoulder, my goody case (amp, stand and cables) in one hand and the cab in the other! No more trolleys over uneven car parks! The one thing I would say that blighted the whole thing for me was the wait to get them. As I later found out on BC, I didn't wait half as long as some of the others who ordered them, and possibly got mine faster than some that did wait a long time. I was desperate to get something lighter ASAP, so when I contacted him and he gave the impression 6-8 weeks, I decided I could just about wait that long. In the end, it was about 12-13 weeks, and around the Christmas period there was a lot of "carrot and donkey" stuff going on where I was being told it would be a certain week, then they hadn't managed it. Again, I will probably get flamed for this, but I personally think that if a company promises a period of time for delivery, they should do everything in their power to make that deadline as they made that "promise". I'm now glad I did wait, but if I'd have been told 12-13 weeks originally, I may have decided to go with another manufacturer. That is just my humble opinion of course - it's easier to say all of this now it is behind me and I have the cabs! Sorry for the blurry example images: [url="http://s945.photobucket.com/user/Gingersonic09/media/photo_zpsc00190d6.jpg.html"][/url] [url="http://s945.photobucket.com/user/Gingersonic09/media/photo_zpsa847666d.jpg.html"][/url] P.S. I did agree last night that the bage looked silly when the cab was on its side, so a "spinnable" smaller logo might have been a good touch. I do like the logo though (I know that is the subject of another thread!)

Looks like I spoke too soon. Sorry for the blurry image..... Merton, as you can see I went for the silver cloth grille, but after seeing the photo of them in the shop., I'm kind almost wishing I went for the black! I have tried them at low volume and sound good as a pair (neighbours aren't keen on the noise) - really light too which is what I wanted. Just waiting for Monday night when I can really put them through their paces! I'm happy to meet up whenever you want - would love to try your Super Compact!

Two of the 2x10s in the pic were mine. They kept emailing me asking if they could hold off the delivery so they could take some photos. I said they could as long as I got them delivered today. They said they had shipped them, late yesterday. I'm only about 40 miles up the road and currently waiting in the house for the delivery, although it wouldn't suprise me if I'm wasting my time.....

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1421350837' post='2660315'] My mate didn't do so well - his rendition of House of the Rising Sun didn't strike a chord with the judges! [/quote] You know Matt too then? He works for the same company as me, albeit I'm in London. I haven't seen him for a lot of years, so I probably can't call him a "mate" too much. I think it was a shock to most of us that he was on there. Shame he didn't get through, we'd have all been rooting for him!

I've always had good service from them, but stuff I ordered on the 4th Jan didn't get processed until 8th, and only got delivered yesterday (14th). I guess it's still only 10 days or 7 working days, but when you're used to it being a lot slicker, it was a bit of concern at times. I also thought it was odd that I sent a mail to query why it hadn't been processed on the morning of the 8th - but didn't get a reply - only for me to get a notification a couple of hours later that it had been processed. Looking foward to playing with it all at the weekend. All in all though - I would hope it would be the Christmas/New Year rush etc - I'm still not put off using them just yet...