Huge Hands

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1421070774' post='2656764'] The sound guy already asked me to not turn up as he was having trouble with bassiness I suppose, and it was a situation where adding more noise was not going to help much anyway... [/quote] Something tells me this stage suffers regularly from resonance or similar making the sound an issue - which is probably why the sound guy, and therefore his promoter, try and pre-empt this before gigs by asking drummers to either cut a hole or remove the skin. The promoter is probably more "definitely has to happen" about it, because he may not understand the technicaliities so much - he is in effect passing on the sound guy's rules. I note that BeerOfTheBass said the sound guy suggested removing the skin but then didn't push it. This is what I was trying to say in earlier posts. As a lone sound guy, it's often you against a group of matey band members, so you often have to be quite blunt to get your point across. They were probably starting with the "cut a hole" line to lay down the law and make you think about it - but on the night, he's probably thinking "Well, I've said my bit, if they don't listen and it sound s**t, I can always say I told them so." I'm only going by past bitter experience as a former FOH/monitors guy in venues with poor acoustics when voicing my opinions. Yes, if the acoustics are good and the stage volume is lower, then you probably can get a good sound micing up from in front of the front skin. However, when you've got a drummer who wants a huge drum fill on stage with loads of kick going through it, it's not always so easy! Glad your gig went well in the end. As a bassist and drummer, I should probably be on the side of not touching the gear, but as a former engineer, I can't help but defend the men (and women) in black!

I've had this with a couple of keyboard players over the years. As someone has already alluded to, one solution (if you can't talk it through) is to roll off the bottom end on the mix or their little amp (however they're being heard). This allows them to still play in their normal way without making the whole mix really muddy. Some keyboard players don't mind that, with others you may need to be a bit more underhand and sneaky about it....

I have to jump to the defence of the sound guy on this one, although I am doing based on my presumptions rather than knowing the full story..... I think a lot of you may be mistaking practicality for someone wanting to change the sound. On a lively stage with guitar amps turned up to 11, vocal wedges turned up full and loads of bass rumble, mic'ing a non ported kick drum from the front skin can be a nightmare in terms of control of booming, feedback and getting any decent level of attack from it. It may sound like a great drum to you in your rehearsal room un-mic'd, but if all the bass drum mic is doing is picking up the singer's wedges and rumble from the bass amp, you're not going to hear much of it through the PA anyway. In the scenarios mentioned above with multiple bands on and off, the last thing the sound man will want to do in limited soundcheck time is to spend 40mins trying to get a good sound out of a kick drum for 1 band out of 5. I think that bands do have to understand that a little compromise isn't the end of the world. It also makes the night run much smoother if you are able to share backline and drum shells as it cuts down on time spent having to move everything around on stage. I imagine this is probably why the promoter is pushing for it too - more music and less faffing about on stage. It is worth noting that the best drummers I've seen on gigs (Clem Catini, Pete Ray Biggin to name but two) were often the first to ask if they can borrow the house band or another band's kit. Just all my opinions of course....

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1420632069' post='2651478'] .... but expecting the drummer to modify his gear to suit them seems a bit off. [/quote] In allusion to my previous post - I have been known to "suggest" to drummers to cut holes in their bass drum skin or take the front skin off, but this was usually to those that were insistent on a particular sound that we couldn't get because they didn't have a hole and we had a very lively/noisy stage with other band members and monitors. We certainly never forced anyone to do it. I know as a drummer myself, I would have never been happy to take a stanley knife to my drum skin but I did take mine off a few times!

In my experience mainly as a front of house sound man (and a bit of studio) - if you're mainly after attack, then close mic'ing the head is the best way. The easiest way to do this would be to put the mic inside the drum via the hole, or if a drummer doesn't have/refuses to make a hole, close mic from next to the beater, like Truckstop said. If you want more of the drum's rumble and sound, then you mic at the hole so that you have direct attack and "colouration". I always found that mic'ing a non ported drum head on the front side meant that you didn't get much attack, and was difficult to use in a live stage environment due to rumble and feedback caused by needing to push the gain further. However, I'm sure there will be others who have worked in much better sound environments who will say I'm talking codswallop!

[quote name='Merton' timestamp='1419337881' post='2638854'] What an awesome present Enjoy it and review when you can Still tempted by these cabs to go with my valve amp... [/quote] Martin, if you're still in the area, you'd be welcome to pop down and try mine when I get them.

I ordered mine a lot later than that! No hard feelings from me and glad to see they're finally out there! I just keep thinking of the gigs I've done (and will do) before I get them where I'd have loved to try them (I ordered two) out!

Did you get yours Bigwan? I just posted on a thread by Jenny_Innie where she's got hers, but I got the dreaded mail to say he hadn't managed to get mine out before his Christmas break. Having to wait until January now :-(

Well done, hope it's good! I got a message from Alex to say he's only managed to get a few out and I'd have to wait for mine until January

I think there is another point of view on this. I was studying studio recording at college/university in the 90s, and loved acid jazz music. However, I would get frustrated with how clean and clinical everything was. I got sick of hearing heavily gated snare drums tightened up to bursting! I started getting into older 70s funk where everything felt so much more real and gritty. Personally, I like recordings where it sounds like everyone was in the room together. I like to hear the fags smouldering in the ashtray and the squeak of a bass drum pedal! This did go against a lot of my lecturer's opinions on my course! What I'm trying to say is, I think a lot of the modern "poor quality" stuff may be intentionally going against the "DDD" CD dream of the 90s, and if it's your thing, like mine, there's nothing wrong with that. However, a poorly mixed, compressed or limted recording that is just down to a badly done copy is just as frustrating to me too! Again, this is all IMHO!

I have a bit of a take on this. - I used to be a FOH sound engineer at a venue that would hold themed weekends. Although I'm in my late 30s, I grew up listening to my parents' choice of 1960s music (amongst others) and loved it all. However, I used to dread 60's themed weekends. I used to find that in a lot of cases, the real talented stars from that era would have made their money and were probably on a beach in California and nowhere to be seen. The "authentic" band would be made up of someone like the original keyboard player who left just as they were getting famous, and the rest would be replaced by mates who weren't good enough to be in the original lineup back in the 60s. Add to this that they're all deaf from years playing with bad PAs and backline, and the sound coming from them would be atrocious! It used to ruin many a classic for me. Those guys would have been in their early 60s when I worked with them, and be in their 70s now. However, on the flip side of that, I remember a few examples where the star of the era would have their son on bass or drums. As a father myself, I think that would be a great bonding thing to do, but quite often, you'd end up with some sort of furious slapping solo or double kick drum fill in the middle of a classic 60s track that just didn't belong there. Fair enough if you're going to see a band do an experimental version of a classic song, but not from the original artist on a 60's weekender where the rest of the song is being played verbatim. Therefore, I think there's advantages and disadvantages of both young and old! This is all IME and IMHO of course!

I'm definitely looking forward to getting mine now.....

I might be repeating what Bigwan posted last week, but I've just had the following response from Alex: "We're working on the tolexing right now. It simply comes down to how long it takes for us to get that process nailed to a sufficiently high standard - once it's sorted then we can make these outstanding Retro10 cabs very quickly. We're also waiting for the steel grills but that doesn't affect your order." (I ordered the cloth version) I guess my next question would be "how long will that take then?", but I'm guessing I'd light the touchpaper on that one!

My experiences of 02R's in a live setting about 10 years ago were (and you've already touched on a lot of these): Really heavy for size. Input preamps (analogue gain knob) go into nasty sounding distortion very easy at the slightest flicker of a red light. Not good for "on the fly" mixing as they're not that fast to navigate through the pages - especially if you've not had a soundcheck! Better if using as stored automated mix (tour style) with just some tweaking. My final piece of advice that I learned at the time was to ignore the pretty graphs the parametric EQ's draw - just concentrate on the actual numbers you're dialling in. I know that sounds obvious, but I would keep getting distracted by the amount of weird wavy lines I was getting instead of what I knew would be the right settings to get it to sound better!

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1416764895' post='2613343'] The Retro Two10, as described on the BF website, is a ported cab that is made to sound like a sealed cab. At a guess it'll look like the majority of all other cabs, a rectangular black box...doesn't make for exciting photography IMO, so no need for pictures of it really. [/quote] This is what I thought, when I ordered mine. I was more interested in it after speaking to Alex about what I wanted from a cab and how it would sound. He certainly was communicative then! I am just hoping I can still get mine before Christmas. This is in line with what I was told by Alex when I ordered, but doesn't ring true after reading this thread.....

[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1416498584' post='2610920'] Current production queue may be 1-2 months on cabs already in production, but the 2*10 hasn't got that far from what I can gather from the VERY limited communication I've had from Alex/Barefaced. [/quote] It certainly wasn't explained to me like that. I guess I have to give Alex the benefit of the doubt as I'm only just around 6 weeks of waiting at the moment, but as I'm buying 2 of these from him to help stop the fact I'm regularly pulling a muscle in my back with my current cabs, I don't want to have to gig those for another 9 months or something! I feel your pain Bigwan - I certainly hope you get yours before me!

[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1416495829' post='2610867'] Nope. No communication from Barefaced since 22nd September either. Emailed Alex on Monday and still waiting for a reply. It's starting to get beyond a joke now... [/quote] This is starting to worry me because I ordered mine early October not knowing about this thread, thinking it would take 6-8 weeks as I believe I was told. Was hoping to use it on gigs in December. I sent a "How's it coming along" mail about a week ago and haven't had a reply. Bigwan, now having seen your wait time - I'm thinking I need to be re-setting my expectations by a long way.... EDIT: - I've just rechecked my emails and Alex said the "current production queue is 1- 2 months" - I guess that is why I had 6-8 weeks in my mind.....

[quote name='Marc S' timestamp='1415117083' post='2596877'] I wouldn't worry about the type who turn their noses up If you enjoy playing it, and it sounds close to a DB - then it does what you want it to, and it's nice to play... [/quote] I think that was the point I was trying to make to the OP

I have played decent DBs and own a cr*p one, and have recently bought a NS Design NXT5. I am a bass guitar player who has tried to move on to DB, and have not had formal training. I have found that my intonation technique in terms of finding notes without looking has improved dramatically since playing the NS. Whether it is the correct technique is another matter! Most comments at gigs so far have been of puzzlement and compliments - mainly as it is a bit of a novelty. You do get the odd nose turn up at it not being the real thing, but I find that is often from the type of people who are more about style than substance. For me, it is fantastic to play, sounds close enough to a DB for me to feel I'm almost one of the boys and is light and portable. It is sitting next to me in my office at work after I carried it in on the train this morning. It was in its "over the shoulder" bag and could sit on a seat with it without taking up half a carriage (I have a rehearsal in London tonight). I also find the great thing is being able to set it up in playing position and be able to walk off and leave it without worrying about it falling over or where to put it. As for the theatre pit thing, I would have thought that you don't save that much space as height is usually the key dimension and you still need space to play it. However, I did a pit gig last year with my DB and needed extra space to lie it down when switching to guitar, so maybe there is something in it! As for the OP - I see you're in Sussex like me - I'd be happy for you to arrange a meet and you could try my NXT5 if it helps you?

I own a one of these with a much lower serial number. My points of suspicion would be: Mine doesn't have "Made in Japan" decal on the back of the neck. The scratchplate on the bottom horn looks much more pointy than mine. The headstock decal is wrong, but then again could have been changed. I'm always cr*p at these "is it genuine or not" threads, but I'd guess "not" in this case. Watch me get totally proved wrong now

Another great artist. I have the Love Oh Love album. I'm not sure the bass is that stand out, but I love his arrangements. The song that got me into him years ago was "Lucky Fellow" (not on the album mentioned above). The tight brass stabs used to get me every time.

[quote name='bassintheface' timestamp='1413275385' post='2576493'] 'These songs for you' is one of my favorite albums. [/quote] If it is the "These Songs For You - LIVE" one, I believe that album is made up from the "outtakes, alternate versions and extras" from the "Donny Hathaway Live" album. I also belive it features a 16 year old Fred White (later to be in EWF) on drums and my favourite guitarist Cornell Dupree (RIP).

His live album with Willie Weeks on bass is fantastic - and one of the best bass solos ever (IMHO)

Is the drummer still Pete Ray Biggin? I first worked with him as a FOH sound guy at a venue about 15 years ago when he was about 19 year old touring around the holiday camp circuit with Jimmy James and the Vagabonds. He would just borrow the house drummer's standard 4 piece kit back then but had such a fantastic feel and groove about him. It made me never want to play drums again! Since then, I've kept an eye for him and what he's doing - I understand he is now one of the top UK session drummers. He's worked with Incognito, and Mark Ronson but to name a few. If it wasn't him, then the above is probably irrelevant, but a fantastic drummer all the same. I remember him being a good laugh too! EDIT: I've just had a look at their website, looks like it still is Pete playing with them. I had a feeling it would be, after the OP's description!

Hi Bobo - I forgot to look at it, but from memory, there is a central circular section, a bit like a tilt joint on a cymbal stand, so you can change the angle between the short and long arm. There is a bolt sticking out the side of it, which screws into the instrument. Therefore it is square on between the bass and the "boomerang legs". However, it is not a symetrical boomerang - i.e. one leg is not the same length as the other. Therefore, I would have thought that for left handed, you would want the bolt sticking out the other side of the pivot joint so that the long one sticks out at the top again. That is the bit I need to check for you as to whether you can do this. I'll try and have a look tonight.