DGBass

Just powered up today since I bought this on FB marketplace for £30. The pre-amp section was near mint, only the little bulbs behind the Trace Elliot logo needed replaced. The amp was sold as no output but it was making a sound, albeit slightly distorted. The problem was easily 'traced' to the ubiquitous PM-4S mosfet output board used in many TE's of the time, and fixed with a few minor component swaps. Weighs a ton right enough, but i can practice my scales and work on my winter tan at the same time 🙂 It also sounds absolutely amazing. It's my third AH250 and the best (and chepeast) one yet.

None of those boxes look in tip top condition, and despite that legendary TE build quality, probably don't sound that great in their present condition. I also can't believe they mostly still have their coloured knob caps intact. They are usually the first thing that falls off old TE amps.

I knew I had a picture of the loudest and heaviest 150 watt rig I ever owned somewhere. The rig was bought for £100 and fully restored to like new. It sounded colossal. Trying to shoe horn it into a small hatchback lasted ony a few times before it had to go. I did make a bit of money on the resale but even so I had to basically give it away for what it was. The 1818 cab was just something else. You could bomb the bass as much as you wanted and it handled it all without any fuss whatsover, better than sone 8x10s I've used. The 1048H cab was immensely loud. Both made of MDF were immensely heavy. If I had a roadie or even a much larger vehicle I may have been tempted to keep one of the cabs as they sounded so good. That's why so much modern bass gear won't ever come close to sounding like these types of cabs. They may be smaller, and lighter, but modern day tone just doesnt compare to the sound these things made. IMHO. My back hurts just thinking about how I managed to lift the 1048 onto the 1818😐

@Phil Starr, I see your cab build has what looks like cross bracing inside between the top and side panels. I didn't see this on the original build diagram. Is this a late revision and if so, were they just glued in place and do the two braces connect where they cross? What wood did you use for the braces? Cheers, DG.

Both of these were purchased for less than the OPs 1048 cab, which is really a travesty of modern times, but very good for the TE enthusiasts amongst us. The Mark 4 GP11 is in regular operational use, The Mk 5 is on the bench but should be working soon. Viewed in UV light as all vintage TE's should be.

I suppose 'Rescue & Restore' would also be an appropriate name for a thread where old Trace Elliot stuff is concerned. Kudos for keeping some quality old school TE stuff gigging. I've had some similar TE kit pass through my hands over the last five years in particular, and the thing about old TE stuff, apart from the weight, is that it was built to last. That being said, the 'old TE classics' do now have plenty years under their belts and it's more or less a given that a good proportion of it will need repairs and servicing of some sort. So buying cheap, especially with amps can be a gamble. The J112 fet that was failed on your SM head is quite a common thing on these amps, and an inexpensive fix. The older Trace stuff with output sections using Hitachi Mosfets can lead to more costly repairs if they go wrong. Cabs though are usually bomb proof and it takes a lot of abuse to break them. I've just bought an AH250 GP11 MKV for the princely sum of £30. It lights up beautifully, but the output is suspect. I know whats wrong with it, and it will need a bit of TLC. However, these amps are legendary, and well worth a little repair work to keep them going. Also rather nice to see a heavyweight thread where lightweight amps and cabs won't be mentioned😁

Maybe there will be more realistic prices for used gear now that sellers don't have to add-on something to cover their eBay selling fees? That's if anyone actually ever did that 🤔

I've been following Miss De Tiger's career with interest since around the start of the pandemic. There's no doubt she has bass chops, and knows how to hold down a groove. I'm sure she will go on to greater things and is in my opinion an ambassador for young up and coming players. Always good to see new and interesting bass players breaking through. Purely from a bass point of view, and regarding her signature model, its way too bling for an oldie like me, and a fairly hefty price tag for a MIM bass imho. Back in 2020 she was playing an Ocean Turqoise American Elite Jazz, and some of the live sessions, and tab sessions she did really popped using that elite jazz bass. It may be a little pricey compared even to her new signature model, but I'd plump for the Elite Jazz in Ocean Turquoise every time. Just curious who the target audience might be for her new signature model. I think its safe to say her signature model has even out sparkled the Adam Clayton purple signature jazz🙄

As any surplus gear moves on, the more adaptable and useable stuff that's keeper material begins to make more regular appearances. This Sunday's setup for an afternoon light duty gig was my regular Laney R210 4ohm cab used in landscape mode for the first time. Sounded fine and still very audible. Amp wise at present, its a toss up between the ABM and its backup OriginAL EVO. Both are more than sufficient for any gig, but the ABM just feels like effortless power, and quite capable of doing a low volume gig with a low power cab as long as I keep the master volume in check. A P-Bass is pretty much standard these days.

Pay to play was rife in Central Scotland back in the 80s, 90s and early nougties. The Glasgow scene for originals bands was particularly bad. All the good venues like The Cathouse and King Tuts were stitched up tighter than a gnat's chuff if you wanted to play there. The format was usually three band nights, and sell a minimum amount of tickets before each band made anything. Tut's for example was pretty well organised though, and each band got a complimentary rider in the deal and a cool corner of The Blue Room to chill in pre and post gig, and to hang with the headline bands. A band I was in played with some interesting headliners. American rockers 3D House Of Beef was one band, and Swedish metallers Psycore were another. No idea what it is like these days since I've moved to covers bands that always get paid.

Just out of curiousity, does the Digbeth 500 have a tube in it? Or is it a tube emulation thing? 🤔

Actually they do, if you dig around in the support docs section. Just wanted to clarify that they do provide specs. Well done Mesa! It states 800 watts rms @ 4 ohms, 10% THD (includes preamp O/D THD) I assume that refers to the pre-amp O/D THD being inclusive in how they measure that spec?

Curious thought, it says 1100w at 4 ohms in the manual, but the website says: Features 1200 bone-rattling watts of true RMS power! I've no idea whether Peavey use a readily available class D module in the TE1200 but it sort of reinforces my suggestion that watts appear to be going missing between engineering and sales departments ☺️ The Elf definetly quotes 200 watts so thats something. I'm not knocking any particular amp brand or model of amp. There will be companies that develop their own in house technologies, and these are the companies that can use their own more detailed specs to market their products more convincingly imho. 🙂

Thank you.

I suppose in reality a THD spec is only a sales differentiator at the end of the day for some folks. I would never claim I could tell the difference between 1% or 5% THD, or 700 and 800 watts. I'm more curious why some amp makers quote one and some don't. And why Ice Power ratings are different from the finished products they go into especially when they are higher. I only mentioned Mesa as an example where there isn't a figure on thier website. It might be in the user guide though.

Some very interesting comments and points being made in the last few pages. Perhaps veering off topic slightly on occasion, but all still relevant to the general theme of small compact solid state amps like the Elf. Personally, one of the TE Elf's biggest selling points, eg its super compact size puts me off ever having one. The constantly running fan also has the thumbs down for me for use anywhere other than a gig. The diminutive size is however the spoiler. Any solid state amps i've ever used generate heat when in use, and the harder they are used the more heat. A very small case with limited airflow around the electronics is going to need a cooling fan, and even then its probably going to get hot in a gig situation because the fan is very small, especially if the amp is plugged into a 4 ohm cab and used to its full potential. Do ELF's get hot to the touch after a three hour gig? And if they do, I wonder how long it would take for them to suffer a heat fatigue related failure being used that way? I suppose the designers will have taken that into account, and someone will have decided an expected service life for a well gigged Elf. I have nothing but respect for Peavey in general terms, I've used a ton of their bass amp products over the years and if anything they have always been over engineered. That's why you will still find the like of 260C/MarkIII amps from the seventies still being gigged and still easily repairable. Power ratings for class d amp technology has been mentioned and is something that intruigues me about how manufacturers market a product. Peavey have typically always been fairly open about power ratings, the Elf is quoted at 200w @4 ohms and also quotes a Total Harmonic Distortion figure of 1%. Recently I had an Ampeg product qouted as 220W @ 4ohms 5% THD which if adjusted to 1% THD was around 160W. That's pure marketing imho. Ice Power modules are also a black art re- power ratings. The 50ASX2 BTL amp from ICE Power was mentioned. The manufacturer rates that 170W @ 4ohms 1% THD. I have an Eden Terra Nova which has this exact module and Eden sell the amp as 225W @ 4 ohms but no THD figure. The Terra Nova also has no cooling fan but is designed to have lots of air all around the Ice Module and a vented casing. Someone also referenced Ice Power 700AS1 modules being fitted to amps marketed as 800W. I have no doubts about Peavey's specs for the Elf, but i'm super curious how other amp builders squeeze so much extra power from standard IcePower class D stuff than IcePower rate their products can deliver at nominal voltages and in suggested operating conditions. I'm sure there is someone who can explain where the extra class d power comes from once a standard module is fitted in a case! Or is it all marketing hype? 700 watts at 4 ohms 1% THD or 800watts @ 4 ohms 5%THD? Mesa as an example don't quote a THD figure for the Subway D800 amps that I can find on their sales specs. The TE1200 also doesn't spec a THD figure. Apologies for veering off topic slightly, and I'm guessing the great class d power rating and amp design debate has probably already taken place elsewhere on the forum. As @bremen mentions, a seperate thread about recent posts might be an interesting idea for any techies or curious BC ers. Are we all being diddled out of our watts these days? I'm guessing most bass players don't care and just want to plug in and play. As a rule i've found its much more noticeable that a power rating may be not quite what it seems in small class d amps than larger ones. When you are talking about an 800 watt amp, no one is going to notice audibly if its actually only delivering 700 watts. In a 225W amp that is only delivering 170W that could be noticeable. From previous posts and praise though, it seems the Elf has honest watts coming out of it despite being so tiny, so well done Peavey for including a THD figure in your specs.

Yes, OEM stuff can often be variations of retail drivers and as the vendor says, specifications can also change. Worth speaking to Ashdown about your RM cab. They are usually very helpful.

Ashdown used a lot of Sica stuff in their 2x10 300w and 4x10 600 watt cabs, 10" 150 watt 8 ohm and 16 ohm variants. This link might give you a basic idea of parameters you could try when modelling a ported solution. The Sica BP10/150 is probably as near as you'll get to the OEM version Ashdown used in some cabs, assuming Ashdown can't supply you with the parameters of the drivers in your RM cab. Again, its only a rough guide and no guarantees as OEM drivers could be specified differently from retail versions. The Ashdown Sica's of the time look identical( but probably aren't exactly the same) to the BP10/150 but with the blue ashdown label on the back. https://sica.it/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/ZJ05820.pdf

I think every player will reach stage where they know in themselves when its time to hang up their sticks/bass/guitar/horn/etc etc. Might be a health reason, or the fun might have gone out of it, or perhaps a bit of both? Telling someone else they are too old to rock n roll is not something I'd probably never do, unless there was a real concern for their well being. In very recent times, our band had a dep drummer keel over at a rehearshal, and who unfortunately needed urgent hospital treatment. He was in his 70s and an excellent drummer, but as a band we decided not to have him back as we were doing a lot of energetic rock covers. He was ok about it, and returned to dep drumming after he got out of hospital because he chose to keep playing. His real love was jazz, and the brushes and bamboo sticks suited him better than a set of Vic Firth Slammers.

There is an old saying that goes "You don’t stop playing when you get old – you get old when you stop playing, so keep playing." It's been a mantra of mine in recent years, but I do get where you are coming from. After a good few steady years of gigging, playing, and having a ball with some of the best band mates I've ever had, a band split, a good drummer friend passing away suddenly, and trying over several months to keep new band projects with various new personnel going, has felt not as enjoyable as it once was. Were on our third drummer, and second vocalist in as many months. Trying to get everyone back into sync, and learn material has been very trying to say the least. It would be much easier for me to just hang up the bass, and sell on the gear and melt into the audience instead of being onstage. I have booked gigging comitments to give me a reason to keep going and I don't like to leave band mates in the lurch, but I can see 2025 being a challenge that might mean retiring from gigs. I'll also have a load of stuff to sell on if I pack it in next year, but I think hanging on to at least one rig is well worth it. Just incase a new project comes along, or you get that call to dep, or join a new project you might enjoy that enthuses you to keep your hand in with the bass. Oddly enough, I've just recently bought a retirement acoustic guitar 😁 It's never going to be as much fun a playing bass though.

I owned and used a pair of BF One10's playing predominantly rock music and bought them to replace a single cab with a larger driver. Great little cabs I must admit, but it took me a few months of gigging to realise they just weren't for me. The two together could never get as loud as the single cab I was using without EQ'ing out all the low end that is my preffered tone. I found them quite coloured tonally( it does say they are designed that way), prone to break up with not nearly as much power as the single cab was able to take, and because I had to take a lot of bottom end out to keep them cleaner, they sounded thinner. The other single driver brand cab I used sounded bigger, cleaner, louder, and could handle as much low end as I could throw at it without breaking up or distorting. I haven't used any of the BF XN cabs to compare, but if they are half as good as everyone says they are, I'd have one anyday in preference to a pair of One10's. Also keeps it simple as a 1 x cab setup.