DGBass

I could live with ears like that. Nothing a can of matt black acrylic paint wouldn't remedy. The TE site suggests a 1.5U rack mounting kit but looks standard 2U from your picture 🤔

I suspect the meaning is that the cab will be ok if your amp has the clean headroom to provide a 500 watt 'clean peak'. What usually destroys speakers is the square wave distortion generated by an amp output when it is overdriven to oblivion. Back in the day, old Peavey 130 watt RMS MKIII 260C combos could generate almost 350 watts peak because of the inbuilt headroom in the amps design. Thats why Hartley put Black Widows (350 watts RMS) in his 130 watt amps to prevent them blowing up if players opted not to use the DDT compression switch. Modern amps including class D work very differently and most class d amp manufacturers rarely quote a peak 'clean' power output. I wouldn't use a BF one ten with anything more than a 250W class d amp (8 ohms). Or a 150 watt class AB amp and thats from experience. They are good cabs and sound great but the power ratings always seemed odd to me. I had two BF one tens, one was rated 200W RMS @ 8ohms and the other a few serial numbers down the road was rated 250W RMS. Both had the same custom high excursion driver so why the power rating label changed mid production was a mystery to me. Both cabs together (at 4 ohms) were fine with a class D 500W amp but with a 500W class AB amp, they really couldn't cope with peaks despite a very clean signal chain.   

The low frequency notes on a bass ( I'm talking four string versions tuned at concert pitch ) do generate the biggest movement on Ashdown VU meters whether its a MAG or an ABM. ABM's in particular have a fairly 'hefty' swing to low frequency response and low frequencies do need a lot more power to be heard effectively. At a recent gig, I set my ABM 500 EvoIII to peak on the VU just at around 0db using the E-string. Thats around 45Hz. The result was a stonking thump all night long. Very impressive and the VU isn't just a fad gadget. it does actually perform a useable function. My ABM will grind a bit more if I put the VU into the red but I prefer around the 0db setting. I'm using an external compressor limiter as well on my board so it translates to a very controlled and consistent tone at extremely high power levels thanks to the VU 😁   

On 16/03/2022 at 16:22, Russ said:

OK, first impressions: 

 

Rack ears are cheesy. 

 

Could you please show us all the rack mounting kit accesories as that is of high interest to me in particular. I need to know if it will fit in my current rack system ( and maybe replace my '92 2U AH200 GP12!) 😁

Probably the worst amp I've owned and had to use was a Torque T100B 1x15 100 watt combo. Can't recall how it came into my possession but it was extricated ASAP as soon as I realised how rubbish it was. The speaker thump(bang) on power up was horrendous. Same when powering off. It wasn't hugely bad once it was switched on but just a very undesirable amplifier. Close second was an HH Bassamp 100. Heavy as hell, painfully loud in all the wrong ways, andI just couldn't get a useable tone from it.

I've been following this thread for sometime and the new TE-1200 looks fairly exciting. If I had grand to spare I'd pop for one easily as I never really thought the ELF was a legit gigging amp that would last years of high pressure gigging in a non FOH scenario. Lots of reviews mentioned ELF's were ideal for frying eggs on after a few hours use at high power. Whether thats true is another story. A 1200 watt class D amp should be good for about 600 watts at 8 ohms and that appeals to me so a TE 1200 may just be what I'm looking for as an all round, do-any-gig amp. Something in the back of my mind though keeps reminding me that I would be buying a Peavey class d amp badged as a Trace Elliot for a premium price tag. I keep thinking of the early class d TE's that Peavey created and from experience they weren't that wonderful.( 715 combo's come to mind). Is the TE brand enough to warrant spending a grand on a Class-D amp built by Peavey and is anyone seriously considering spending £2.5K for a TE -1200 and a road ready 4x10? 🤔  

It took me a few years to realise that what I already had was all I needed. A good Jazz and a good P-Bass pretty much covered 'all bases'.  '98 USA Standard( N serial number owned from new) & 2012 American Standard Jazz owned from new. Both loaded with EB slinky cobalt flats. The Jazz has Ironstone vintage 70's Jazz pickups and the P-Bass is stock apart from the original replacement Fender 2010 P-Bass deluxe string through/top load bridge. Haven't gassed for any other basses for years now. That's a good thing 🙂  

I had the same experience with my RM210T ( it was an early mark 1 version allegedly rated at 350watts RMS @ 8ohms). Used with an old school Mag200 mosfet amp, the cab severely struggled to cope with the MAG even though it was running at 8 ohms. The cab was vibrating like crazy and the piezo popped - twice. Oddly enough my RM210T sounded quite fantastic at low to medium volumes that you might use in a studio situation but it just didn't cut it with the wick turned up at a gig😐

I just passed on a fairly mint AH250 GP12 SMX. 1993 vintage and sounded really quite something. Saying that my allegiance lies with the Series 6 AH200 GP12 as the defacto convection cooled 90's Trace Elliot armament. Sounds completely killer, no noisy cooling fans and kicks some serious butt for a 200 watt rated unit. The AH250 SMX has the same Hitachi mosfet output array as the AH200 but a slightly beefier heat sink and uprated transformer. There's not a great deal output wise of a difference or loudness between either amplifier. The major difference I noted was the dual band compressor and a bit more hiss from the tube pre-amp stage on the SMX. The tube stage is the one thing the SMX head has in its favour.  

It's not been a great time for active gigging in the past year but I've still managed to experience a varied amount of interesting gear that has either passed through my hands or has stayed with me in the 'fold'. I haven't changed any basses this year and stayed with my '98 P-bass and my 2012 Jazz( I did install Ironstone jazz pickups in the 2012 Jazz this year to great effect). Gear wise, there were a few interesting old school developments. First was a very old Ashdown EB150-15 combo I bought for £75 early in the year. It really sounded fantastic and did a fair turn at rehearsals. It was fully original, lightweight, punchy and had that classic Ashdown EB tone. Next up and something I had searched out for a while was an Ashdown MAG400 head. I bought this for £50 and it needed a full rebuild. It's a MAG with ABM power and restored to its original glory, is a complete beast. It's like a classic MAG on steroids.

It's a keeper and has been used to great effect with a classic MAG210T slim I have. Last but not least this year, I bought an old MK1 Trace Elliot Boxer 65 for £40 that was stored in an attic for the last 15 years. It needed a good service but cleaned up well and really does sound quite fantastic for a a 26 year old 1x12 combo and is now my go to home jam box. I also flirted with a modern Ashdown Studio 12 combo which had a pretty fab pre-amp and sounded great but I couldn't seem to find the rated 100 watts in it anywhere and sold it on. No new effects or gadgets have come my way but worth a mention is my continued use of Ernie Ball slinky flat wound cobalts which I now have on all my basses.

So what was your new gear highlights and lowlights for this 2021 lockdown year?  

PS: I know it shouldn't be mentioned here on these hallowed bass halls, but guitar wise, I also came across a rather wonderful old school guitar combo that blew me away. Yes it was a Trace Elliot! 

There are a few subtle differences in the MAG and Electric Blue combos made over the years. The earlier combos had the low mids swept around 220HZ whereas later units had low mids swept around 340HZ. Ashdown also varied the input gain level on the various incarnations of MAG pre-amp boards so some MAG's ( and EB's) appear punchier sounding that others because they have slightly higher input gain. The MAG combos with the ported cab also sound better in my experience. The sealed versions were slightly less thumpy at higher volume but still sound toneful.  I've owned EB's from 130/150/180/220 and MAG's from 200/250/300/600 and my favourite EB was the 150 combo 1x15 and favourite MAG was the 250 combo 1x15. Both had a very punchy and smooth delivery and sounded great in a band. Folks tend to hang on to the good examples when they come around.   

The TE pre-shape on its own is fairly classic Trace sounding through all manner of non TE cabs. However the TE cabs do make a difference. Size does matter as the TE brochures of the early 90's will tell you. 2103's, 1518T's, 1818T's and to a lesser degree 1048H's will deliver big TE bass tones because of their size and the very good speakers in them. If its authenticity you are after then I would say yes, if you get the amp you need the cab to go with It 🙂

I've used various ABM's for five or six years now and recently had a bit of a clear out as my old Trace Elliot stuff has been creeping back into action. My favourite ABM was an old mosfet ABM 500 EVO. My last remaining ABM is a big box ABM 500 EVOIII bought as a spares/repair project and its now fully rebuilt/restored with an EVO IV pre-amp shoe-horned into it. It was originally a 2010 model and now sounds like brand new and is immensely powerful.  Currently used with either a 1980 Musicman RH115 or a 1990 TE 1518T both with Faital Pro 15-PR400's. I can't recall ever using anything else that can move so much air.     

These are really good amps in my humble opinion and will deliver a fair bit of slam with a decent cab. I own a rack mount head version (from 1992) and its my current favourite. Gigged it recently after a lockdown rebuild and it's fairly scary anywhere past 4 or 5 on the master volume control. It just keeps delivering oodles of power hour after hour and the GP12 pre-amp is sublime. The same AH200 head spec is used in the likes of the 1210 combos. Most of the examples I've come across were dated between 1990-1993 and all needed a bit of servicing to get them working at peak efficiency. 30 year old amps still need TLC even when they are built to the super high quality specs these were built to. The date sticker on the inside chassis usually tells all and the TE QC guys usually scrawl their names and build dates in various places because I assume they were proud to do so. A good condition one should be very quiet in operation almost to the point of barely a hiss from your cab at low volume. If there is any hum at all, the power board caps probably need replaced as will the big cap for the pre-amp board power supply. Other maintenance points for these are a large 220R ohm step down resistor for the pre-amp board PSU as it heats up a lot in normal operation and can cause signal drop outs if worn. The bridge rectifier diodes on the mosfet power board are also prone to heat wear and can get noisy/fail if worn after 30 years of use. The heatsink thermal compound can also dry out after 30 years and if you ever need to service the amp its worth renewing the compound. They get warm in normal gigging operation and you don't want to overcook them if the heatsink is dry. I serviced a broken 1991 AH200 GP12 just recently( from a 1210 combo) for a local rehearsal studio and for the grand total of £15 parts it now sounds and works like new. The attached pic shows the date sticker( bottom of the pic) and on this one it's also penned on the power amp board. £150-200 for an excellent condition one is a good deal. If it hums or crackles in any way probably £70-110 in my opinion as it will likely need a good service.       

Found this in my archives, its my home built pedal board from circa 1982. I built this from plywood and installed a power brick under the top panel to supply the Boss units and the Amdek distortion unit. The MXR comp limiter was mains powered and fed from an IEC on the back panel. The in/out jacks were XLR connectors. I ran it into a pair of 100w Marshall bass heads, and two 4x12's at the time.

As Phil says, Peavey BW drivers of certain vintage suffered certain issues with glue drying out. One thing I have found consistently with these drivers is over time( 20 or 30 years), the foam dust filter in the magnet assembly dries out and parts of it crumble and fall into the air gap of the magnet assembly. Sometimes they fall into the area behind the dome and rattle about behind it. This usually causes buzzing and distortion. 1504DT and 1508 DT models were prone to this. It's an easy fix, take the driver out of the cab and unbolt the magnet assembly from the basket.  Then vacuum any gunk out of the magnet assembly air gap and from the basket assembly. I've found on occasion bits of coil formers broken off in the gap. If it's really bad this can score the voice coil and render the basket unusable. In most cases, cleaning the air gap in the magnet will get your BW working again and be distortion free. Another thing to check when you have the basket detached is that there is no melted foam on the copper voice coil winding. You can usually see this as black gunk on the coil former. This can also be fixed by very careful scraping of any lumps or parts on the coil former. But its delicate work and I'd only recommend this if you have some experience with Peavey BW drivers. 

On 18/09/2021 at 15:44, bassman7755 said:

Also worth noting that in cab design size matters but weight does not  - all other things being equal a bigger cab can go lower and louder (more efficient) than a smaller one but thats purely a function of its size NOT its weight. 

Agree whole heartedly. The thing with most lightweight cabs in my limited experience of them is that the designers go for smaller as well as lighter and 8 ohm spec. Small lightweight 4 ohm cabs won't handle a modern amp output as well as two 8 ohm cabs would unless the 4 ohm design was substantially bigger. The lightweight cabs I've owned weren't bad sounding but they were also smaller to keep the weight down. As examples the RM Ashdown sealed cabs I owned sounded great, and their white line drivers were very toneful, especially the RM210T.  Kick some serious power through them and it almost seemed like the drivers were going to pop right out of the cabs at well within their power rating. The BF cabs I owned also didn't sound bad, just being so small even a a pair of them couldn't produce the low end I like. They seemed to be voiced for a more modern low mid sound which I didn't like at the end of the day.  Physically bigger cabs will weigh more obviously no matter if their made of particle board or quality birch ply. Saying that, I do think a cab made of 3/4 inch whatever is more solid than a cab made of 8mm ply. If someone made an 800 watt 4 ohm 2x15 out of 8mm ply, I suspect it would need some serious internal bracing to keep it in check. And that would make it less lightweight. Thats why I mentioned the 20 year old MAG210T in comparison with RM compact sealed cabs as an example. The ported MAG with modern drivers( and 4 ohm capability) is heavier but not by that much. For me, and because its ported it outperforms a smaller lightweight sealed RM210T in low end performance which is my thing. And crucially, one bigger older and heavier MAG 4 ohm 2x10 that doesn't weigh a great deal more has replaced my two lightweight thin wall compact sealed cabs that weighed more together.  And all at a fraction of the cost of buying lighter modern stuff.  I predict as cab offerings evolve, more manufacturers will offer single slightly larger 4 ohm cab solutions that may be a little heavier and physically larger but ultimately will suit players who no longer want to hump multiple 8 ohm cabs around, even if they are lightweight😁 I think larger cabs are here to stay and folks could do worse than re-inventing existing cabs meantime with newer modern drivers to get a good single cab solution.  

On 10/09/2021 at 17:42, Deepfat said:

Interesting thread. I've been mulling over getting rid of my old Ashdown ABM 410T and 210T as I never use the 410 as it is just too damn heavy and taking up space. I normally just use the 210 but sometimes with my Barefaced One10 (practice cab) to drop to 4Ohms and drive amp better. We play pubs and clubs so nothing enormous. Thinking of either a Barefaced Twin or GR AT212 as a replacement. Light, 4Ohm and possibly louder. Thoughts?

I've now gone full 4 ohm cab mode since selling on all my 8 ohm cabs. It's just my experience but running the remaining amps I have access to at 4 ohms does seem to make a difference as to how they perform. Maybe its having the full headroom of the amp available that makes that difference but they feel more responsive in use at a gig. I recently got a hold of a very early MAG210T compact slim( not the deep version) cab as a smaller more portable option to use instead of my bigger Musicman. It's an old UK made one, front ported and pre-dates Ashdown's usual year/date serial numbers so its at least 20 years old. It was originally a 150 watt 8 ohm cab but as I got the cab for buttons due to a faulty speaker, I replaced both drivers with Jensen BP150's and its now a MAG210T-300 4 ohm cab. I gigged it last week and it sounded immense with a TE AH200-GP12 on top which is no slouch in the watts department. It's not that heavy either and very portable. I don't want to stir controversy or fall out with the Rootmaster owners club folks (or the BF fans) but a 20 year old front ported MAG210T compact slim cab with a modern 300 watt 4 ohm setup completely smoked the lightweight RM210T cab I recently sold on by a large margin in low end performance(as a single cab option). It also sounded better to me than the pair of BF 1x10's I used to own. Yes its not as light (18kg as opposed to 14kg for the RM) but there is definitely life in older bigger cabs if you don't want to(or can't afford to) shell out on the expensive boutique options. It's also worth choosing your drivers carefully if you do feel like updating. I'd say don't get rid of your 210T, just upgrade it to a 4 ohm cab, bounce the 410 into the classified ads to fund the new speakers 😁 and save yourself a packet. Of course you need to like the sound of your 210T before considering such a change...    

TC Electronic BC cabs use a permanently wired Eminence ASD1001 horn tweeter and a high pass filter printed circuit board screwed onto the inside of the cab.  Curiously the 4x10 BC cabs were mostly 500w 4 ohm cabs. The RS410 cabs were 600w 8 ohm cabs + tweeter. K410 cabs were also usually 600w 8 ohm + tweeter. If you want to use these cabs without the tweeter, it would be prudent to remove the high pass filter wiring from the speaker circuit. You can then be sure it won't interfere with the cab impedance in any way if your stacking another cab with it.    

To respond to the op's original post and based on my experience of trying smaller lightweight modern cab designs I have to say I've not been persuaded to give up my last large bass cab yet for something promising big low end performance from a small lightweight(and usually expensive) package. At present, the only cab at my disposal that I can depend on providing real ‘low end depth’ without any drama is a big old Musicman RH115 cab fitted with a Faital Pro 15-PR400. Of course its fairly large and not the easiest to transport. One other point the Op mentions is '4 ohm' cabs. This is my preference nowadays as using a single 4 ohm cab also gives me the benefit of the amps full headroom without the hassle of two cabs. My single bigger 4 ohm cab is getting more use than my smaller lightweight cabs because it can outperform them easily if I need to boost below 180Hz( based on use with a TE GP12). I still feel at present with cabs that the laws of physics apply if you like your bass down(very)low. All that being said, I did try a Markbass Traveller 122 recently (800watt 4 ohm 2x12 cab) and I was very impressed with the ‘low end depth’ it could manage and it was reasonably lightweight. It does however fall into the ‘usually expensive’ lightweight option and I’ll need a few well paid gigs before I consider one and think about selling on my large Musicman bass cab.

Series 6 Trace Elliot amps like the AH100/130/150/200 and even some of the mighty AH250 amps were based around Hitachi lateral Mosfets. You can't get these new anymore but they do occasionally come up for sale as NOS on some internet auction sites at ridiculously inflated prices. Modern equivalents are still available from a company called Exicon. The units are TO3 packaged and a neat fit for the power amp boards on Series 6 Amps.For an AH130 you likely have a pair comprised of a K135 and J50 Hitachi mosfet.  It's probably worth investigating why your amp is getting hot before spending time and money replacing mosfets. They aren't cheap. The rear heatsinks on these type amps will get warm running at 4 ohms for extended periods but shouldn't get hot enough to blow mosfets. It would be prudent to check both your cabs aren't running at less than 4 ohms ( most standard wiring on older trace cabs was alway 8 ohms per cab). Also, the thermal compound on the heatsinks on these type amps will dry out after many years service and striping them down, cleaning and re-applying new thermal paste to the heatsink components can cure many overheating and cutting-out issues. If I had one of these for service, I would renew the thermal compound on the heatsinks as a matter of course. I've added a pic showing my own serviced AH200. It still has the Hitachi mosfets intact and working perfectly. I run my cab at 4 ohms and it barely gets warm even after a three hour gig at high power levels. The AH130 will likely just have one pair of mosfets so probably will run a bit warmer with two 8 ohm cabs.   

14 hours ago, Sparky Mark said:

To me that is a right handed case because when you carry the case the bass is upside down.  When you open the case you should be able to pick the bass up in the correct orientation without having to flip it over and turn it correct side up.

I see your point although looking at the 71 Jazz photo to compare, both cases would't accommodate a righty bass very well as the placement of the top horn on the body wouldn't allow the body to fit. The bottom horn is hard against the case edge. Both cases are a very neat fit body wise. I never really noticed case orientation until now and always lift my bass out of the case with my left hand. It looks more natural seeing the bass not upside down from the front of the case if that makes sense. My Jazz lefty case is also the same way around as my lefty P-bass and to me they are both proper lefty cases but obviously not the same as the 71 Jazz case. Knowing Fender they just changed it around at some point to standardise things. My Jazz case is perfectly moulded for a lefty and a righty won't fit at all. It's a 2012 model year. 

I've had pre-Ernie Ball and Ernie Ball Stingrays and the only issues I've ever had were with batteries or the jack sockets. Later 3 EQ Stingrays use a sort of plastic barrel switchcraft jack with a dedicated battery switching contact. If this tarnishes or gets crud in in it, you will get a poor battery supply and the active circuit won't work properly. The pre-Ernieball Stingrays had a much better quality all metal switchcraft jack and the battery didn't go through a dedicated contact like the modern 3 EQ ones. It's well worth getting some good contact cleaner and giving the jack a good skoosh and a wiggle to see if that helps. It may just be a bit of oxidisation from lack of use on the battery contact in the jack.  

I messed around with a pair of Eminence Beta 12A-2's a while back in a sealed and a ported cab in an attempt to get a useable 500watt 4 ohm box with a deep 'warm' tone using a p-bass with flats (and an ABM 500). I picked up a generic sealed (empty) cab in the classifieds and a ported cab ( an empty tc electronic BC212) for just a few quid. Both sounded fine to a point but the ported cab won the day. The sealed cab struggled with the really low stuff( I know thats not very technical sounding) but was good with that low mid honk. The ported cab was seismic in the lows by comparison. The cab dimensions were almost identical at approx W x H x D 462 x 662 x 380 . The ported cab had two very large ports to the rear. I sold on the BC212 and had replaced the drivers with Celestion BL12-200X units by that time  and they paled in comparison to the Eminence Beta 12-A2's in either the sealed or ported cab. The Celestion's were very inexpensive to buy at the time. I haven't owned a windows computer for eons so don't do WinISD so can't offer any technical data as to why the Eminence units sounded better. I just used my ears. But they did in my opinion and the ported cab was by far the best option to deliver a meaty warm low end with a pair of twelves.😁  

Nice. Be interested to hear your thoughts on how your new combo holds up in a band situation when you get the chance to crank it up