DGBass

It's an intruiging potential purchase...a time machine Trace Elliot amp from around 20-25 years ago. I assume if its being sold 'as new" it would come with a full warranty? My AH250 GP11 bought for £60 off eBay came with its original price tag still on the back panel from LiveWire Music in Cardiff where I assume it was first sold as new for £599 in 1985. That was a lot of cash back then and I suppose still is today. In real terms it would be almost £1800 in todays money. If a time machine AH250 GP11 came up for sale now would I pay £599? Probably not and definitely not £1800.  290 euros does seem a lot for even a pristine GP7 SM150 thats being sold as never used. They are good amps though, well made and all the major parts like caps and output devices are easily available so they can easliy be repaired by a decent tech. 290 euros will also buy you a reasonably powered brand new lightweight bass head and even some conventional class A/B heads with superior output and you'd be getting a full manufacturers warranty with a new amp. I guess its maybe better buying a never used pristine GP7 SM if its a Trace Elliot itch that needs scratched than a used one with maybe a thousand gigs under its belt and no service history. Something like an Elf may not be a bad idea, but there are other brand new amps around for around 300 euros that may be worth considering if it doesn't need to be a Trace Elliot.

Most old school TE amps are getting on a bit now and thats probably the main thing to look out for, one that all works as it should. Of the two heads mentioned at the start of the thread, the AH250 GP11 is a monster in every respect wether the earlier models or its last incarnation the MK5 GP11. I don't think there is any gig situation one of them wouldn't cope with. Downside is they weigh as much as your average 4x10 cab. The GP7 SM150 is a completely different beast, lighter, more modern and perhaps a little under powered compared to earlier MK5 or Series 6 amps. I still own an AH250 GP11 MK5 that I picked up for £60 on eBay however it needed a bit or work to get it gig ready. I've giged it recently and its a joy to use. The power sections are bomb proof, and mostly issues with AH250's will be found in the pre-amp module. If I were to recommend an older TE amp, I'd plump for something like a Series 6 AH200 GP12, or an AH250 GP12 SMX as these are mostly bomb proof. The GP7 SMC 300 watt heads are also very good mosfet powered amps. If you can find an AH250 GP11 that  is all in good order, its a fantastic amp for the money as long as you don't mind the weight. 

I picked up an MK500 recently, actually from @Chimike of this parish and as a long time ABM user I was curious how the 12-band thing stacks up against an ABM. It's a completely different beast pre-amp wise, more akin to a Trace Elliot GP12 SMX without the dual band compression and valve harmonics. I wouldn't say it was super hi-fi clean but it is generally quite crisp sounding. The Harmonics control is reminiscent of the EQ balance on a GP12 SMX in that it lets you swing the tone to the bass end of the specturm or the treble end easily without messing around with the EQ sliders.  Power wise it can shift air just like any of my ABM's can. It doesn't have that ABM pre-shape thump but the 12-band will let you dial in all the bottom end you want. My MK500 is based around an ABM EVOIII power section configured to 230V working. I've modded my MK500 to run at 240V as the big original TD00531 transforner is designed to run at this voltage. It now runs whisper quiet even at very high volume settings and dare I say a bit more hi-fi like. I can see it also being excellent in a studio setting, I haven't tried the DI as yet but hope to do so soon. 

On 07/09/2023 at 08:00, wateroftyne said:

Does anyone click through the individual forums to browse the topics anymore?

Aye. I still find it the best way to locate what interests me most.

The Series 6 amps had multiple primaries and were normally torodial type transformers. @BassBunny metioned Ashdown as a potential route and I'd agree here. For example, I recall reading some time in the past that some Ashdown export models as well as being set for 120V also had slightly different transformer ratings from UK bound versions so simply converting a 120-0-120 primary to work as a single 240V primary ins't always an ideal solution. Ashdown may be a good point of contact as I'm sure they could recommend or perhaps even fit a suitable replacement transformer to power a 500 watt amp. Basically rather than converting your exisitng transformer, fitting a modern replacement spec'd for UK mains might be a worthwhile consideration.

Bought an amp recently from Mike, a straighforward no fuss deal from a straighforward no fuss dude! Many thanks Mike - DG😎

I think there may have been a few pages dedicated to the subject of notched or smooth volume pots somewhere back in this thread. I prefer smooth and all my ABM's are that way. I llke my Trace elliots notched though. All my DI's are also whisper quiet and I always use a proper balanced DI cable as unbalanced XLR cables can cause noise issues.

Having an option to opt out of uneccessary cookies and I guess GDPR regulations would be a reasoanble guide as to what constitutes an unecessary cookie would I think go someway to helping forum users not get the fear from the "Got It" pop up. At the moment it serves no real purpose in my mind other than to tell a user we are using cookies to profile you for advertising purposes and there is no choice other than to agree to make the pop up go away. I've also noticed on my browser that posts are now re-arranged by likes and not date by default? It's easy enough to re-order but i'm not sure if its a bug from the new implementation or deliberate to push the most likes to the top of a thread? Using different browsers has a marked effect on what you now see when browsing basschat whether logged in or lurking. Firefox on strict as @Silvia Bluejay mentioned is fairly useable and helps minimise ads so far. 

Looks like a new feature and I recall there was some discussion about cookie banners fairly recently. I did get some friendly feedback from the powers that be to explain why certain cookies were needed but I must admit i wasn't fully convinced all the cookies could be classed as totally necessary. Anyway, my cookie flavours appear to be in italian for some reason🤔

If its a GP12 you mean and is the SMX variant and not one of the high power series AH amps, I'd have to wobble and say try it out to see if you like that sound. The tube provides no real distortion, its more harmonic overtones. The dual band compression is sublime imho. I still use one although its the pre-amp only version with an uber lightweight class D rack power amp. A curious mix but it works for me. Classic TE   4 x10's like the 1048H made of mdf or ply are getting on for high 30's Kgs, they feel even heavier. The 1x15 1815 cab isn't far behind that. They are an itch i've scratched and although they sounded grand, they were just too much to handle and overkill for bar gigs. I still use a couple of older bigger cabs, all 1x15's but not together. Lightest is 18kg, heaviest around 27kg and thats heavy for me. Try the GP12, it may surprise you, but i'd pass on the cabs!🙂

5 hours ago, agedhorse said:

Since it’s a direct coupled output topology, those caps can’t possibly be coupling caps. Therefore, the rest of the information provided is suspect.

Thaks for the clarity @agedhorse. Smoothing caps would be correct as Phil Star kindly pointed out. I wouldn't agree entirely with your sweeping logic, I did point out as with anything electrical with dangerous voltages present, you have to be careful and if in any doubt an amp tech would be the way to go. I wouldn't say safety advice or a suggestion to take it to a tech if you have any doubt about what to do was suspect information. Forum diagnostics are never going to be a perfect way to help another member fix a broken amp, it was only my experience of Laney RB designs I was trying to convey.  I'm sure we all only try to share our experiences with best intentions and maybe if enough people do, especially the more learned forum users with vast knowledge and experience of musical equipment and i'm not reffering to myself as I'm a DIY-er,  another potential diy-er might gain an insight into the innner workings of their equipment from collective viewpoints, take that first step to realise that it may be possible with an appreciation of electrical safety, some thought, and bit of learning to save a broken amp from the dumspter.  And of course save £££'s in repair bills.

2 hours ago, boristhespider7 said:

I'm an ABM 500 Evo III owner. Is it worth upgrading to the Evo 4?

I appreciate its only 2 extra sliders on the EQ plus some more gain to the valve section. Is it worth it?

There isn't a monumental difference between the EVOIII ABM500 and EVO IV models in my experience. Some early EVO IV's around 2017 were still using the green EVOIII main pre-amp board with the newer 9 band tone circuit. Later EVO IV's use the blue Ashdown re-designed pre-amp main board with the 9 band tone circuit. Transformers in both EVOIII and early EVO IV's were more or less the same, large output Xinzi branded, and had a T12A output fuse to protect cabs from excess output. Newish ABM EVO IV's have a new redesigned high quality/very quiet Euro designed transformer and also thermostatically controlled fans that only come on when you put your foot down. New EVO IV's are very quiet in operation and ideal for studio/home use because of this. There is a bit more grit in the later ABM EVO IV mainboard and also as mentioned you have two more sliders to fine tune tones. If your EVO III is working fine with no issues and doing the job, might be worth saving your money for the EVO VI if / when it comes along😁 I'm sure someone at Ashdown will be already drawing up the specs for it! Both EVO 3 and 4 are very capable amps and either can do that ABM sound. 

A loud uncontrollable hum on the speaker output usually means something has gone on the output section of the amp, test for dc on the output that shouldn't be there. But not always! Laney amps of this era are fairly simple to repair and parts can be found for them easily online. If an output transistor had failed, it would usually take out the fuse as well, so it may be a failed smoothing capacitor or even a dry solder joint on one of the caps. Vibration over a long period can rattle things loose and from Laney RB bass amps I've worked on before, they seem to be sparing on the hot glue to keep big caps fixed and stable on the circuit board.  The pic below is from a bigger 300w RB version of your combo that had similar issues. The big black bits with 5/22 on them are the smoothing caps. If they move or feel wobbly at all it could be they've worked loose. Any good amp tech would find an issue like that very quickly. Can be diy but as with anything electrical with dangerous voltages present, you have to be careful and not get yourself electroplated. If in any doubt, an amp tech is the way to go. Any amp is worth repairing if its cheaper than buying something to replace it. 🙂

Yes, both cabs are damped with the same material but the MM does have a litte less of it. Mainly so as not to obstruct the porting mechanism at the rear of the box.

I have a couple of cabs from different manufactures of different era’s, designs, sizes, materials and weights with identical drivers in them( Faital Pro 15PR400). Both these cabs seem to be able to perform in a surprisingly similar way sound wise to the point it’s difficult to really tell them apart individually in a live setting. If anything, the MM is slightly brighter sounding when pushed, and works better in larger rooms, the TE goes all silky smooth when pushed, sounds very even tone wise and works well in either small or large rooms. At low volume which is the only time I’ve tried them together, the tone appears very even from both cabs. Neither looses the other. I suspect that might change slightly at gig volume.  I haven’t used them live together because a) there has been no need because they are sufficiently loud on their own, b) I can’t fit them both in the car at the same time without a major faff. Just for info, the TE is 38 years old, the MM is 40+ years old. Had they been fitted with their original drivers, the differences between them would I’m sure have been much more noticeable when used together or on their own.  So, Identical drivers in different cabs in my experience might go someway to narrow a cab mismatch if the cabs are reasonably similar designs and tunings eg ported + ported or sealed + sealed. The box itself will add colour/affect the sound in some way and as has been said already combinations really need to be tried and tested, preferably at loud volume where I think a cabs true character is revealed.  The TE cab was actually a project to see if i could get the same performance from the bigger MM cab in a (slightly) smaller package. It seems to have worked well and i now have two very similar performing cabs that i'd be confident enough to stack if the occasion came along. If you have mix and match OCD, best look away now. 

A lovely old amp for sure. The plexi panels front and rear would suggest the manfacture date is sometime in the 1960's. Marshall were famous for using up back stock of parts from previous years even when they changed models and they are known to have still been using plexi panels into the early 70s before they switched fully to aluminium control panels. Manufacturing date and originality are usually the most important thing where value of these old beasts are concerned. Saying that, anything  Marshall from the 1960s sells for crazy money these days and the next step of anything pre-1972 is also jumping in value these days.

I was lucky enough to have a 100 watter on my bench early in the year. It turned out to be roughly 1971-1972 vintage. Hadn't been fired up in over 20 years and despite a few crackles which were easily sorted, it was working fine and sounded amazing. The current owner and previous owner had some good history and stories to tell of when they owned and used the amp and that seems to be quite common for old Marshalls. Their owners to tend to keep a hold of them for years and years. Its good to know in those cases that they also still get used and aren't gathering dust on display somewhere or stuck in storage. I used a 77 MKII Superbass 100 and an 81 JCM800 Superbass 100 for many years and neither ever let me down despite being gigged hard and always sounding great. Both are on my list of things I wished I'd never sold. The one thing that this 72 amp did remind me of was the weight and the heat that comes from them. If any of my modern amps got as hot as a Superbass does, I'd be worried but thats just the way they are and always have been. Great amps.

Yes still could be a good buy. Until anyone looks inside to see whats needed, we'll never know for sure what it would cost to fix. Dave Green at Ashdown could no doubt work wonders with the internals but I'm not sure if Ashdown employ any panel beaters to fix bent metal work😆 I've had occasion to try and straighten out a bent ABM in the past and its fairly heavy grade steel these are made from. They don't bend out of shape or back into shape easily.  Definitely a project for a real enthusiast methinks.  

4 hours ago, TheGreek said:

I think it's a new, but damaged, head and, as we know, Ashdown will probably repair it for a pittance. Anybody want to snap it up?

I saw this recently and for me anyway, its not more than fifty or sixty quids worth of parts without a few photos of what has happened internally. Apart from it being an ABM1200 which is a rare beast and fairly impractical for pub gigs, the damaged back panel looks particualrly terminal. Any impacted surface moves a fair bit in the direction of impact before springing back into place albeit in this case not all the steel panel has come back flat as it should be. The back board will be broken for sure. Both fans likely impacted the dual output boards and hit the heat sinks. They could be ripped out of position or the boards split. Either way thats two APC033 output boards, potentially two new fans, a back board and its possible the transformer could have been impacted. If that needs replacing you could be looking at a £400 repair bill in parts before the metal work is straightened out. I suppose if you already had an ABM1200 it would be and ideal source of spares you could pick at for years to come, but not for the current asking price. The case also looks like it has a split or been weakened at one side🤔 Must have been a very heavy impact and no telling what else might have been damaged.

3 hours ago, jezzaboy said:

The man knows Ashdowns inside out and may have an idea? Sorry for putting you on the spot Will 

Thanks for the bump G🙂 Umm...never seen inside an MK500 but they are simpler than your average ABM. These MK amps are getting on a bit now and were mostly new around 2005-2006 or thereabouts. Yoy can get the odd buzzy gremlin occasionally if the amp has never been serviced. Difficult to say what it might be but if its had a lot of use a buzzy noise like in the video could be a ground issue. Could be something as simple as a loose screw that needs a quarter turn on a ground post on either the output board or the pre-amp section. Could also be a dry joint on the input jack ground. Not sure if anyone has suggested yet but it might be worth plugging directly into the return jack to isolate the pre-amp. if the buzz remains, it's likely ther power amp section. If it clears its likely the pre-amp. All academic if its going back and the op isn't keen on popping the hood. 

I'd tend to agree with the contact Ashdown idea if its a keeper. They have the ability to sort it and check it over and seem to do it very reasonably cost wise. Big Ashdown's like these are reliable and great sounding but everything needs a little TLC now and again, even an Ashdown. The good news is that they are always easy to repair and restore to gig condition. Dave Green is the man the OP should call if he intends keeping the MK500.

4 hours ago, jezzaboy said:

t`s always amazed me that Ibanez don`t re do some of the older models, I mean Fender have been doing it for decades!

 

But maybe the only ones who would buy them would be sad gits on bass forums 

You might be onto something there G😉 I did own one first time around in 79/80, a Blazer 800 in two tone sunburst, slab body and one piece maple neck. It was my first ever new bass after a string of used planks i'd owned. The fit, finish and quality was immense. It felt like and was a proper quality instrument and sounded brilliant through my Marshall Superbass half stack.  The Fenders of the time looked rough by comparison. Seems such a long time ago and the photo shows that! Not sure if I'd buy a re-issue if that ever happened. Ibanez still make great instruments but nothing like they were in their heyday.

A slightly better photo of it just before it was sold on circa 2010.

7 hours ago, BigRedX said:

Only covers bands need their own PA.

 

Originals bands play venues with in-house PAs and engineers. Since the mid 90s the only venues I have played with an originals band that didn't have their own PA were ones that do not normally put on live music and for those we hired in a PA.

My covers band do indeed supply their own PA. Got me thinking though, the originals band I'm in also supply their own PA and thats my simplest setup. Bass - Lead - Tascam24. And of coure finally the PA.

I miss the days of bass - coiled curly lead - amp and everyone tuning up to whoever's bass/guitar was most in tune audibly before the gig. The audible tuning was unprofessional when I think of it but it let everyone in the venue know the band was about to commence. Tuning up with pitch pipes on stage was never cool. I have forgotten the power supply to my board on occasion in recent times and played straight in with only a clip on polytune for comfort. It was fine and the show went on. I do like my LMB3 and my floor polytune for muting though and I may yet slim things down to just those.  

I've been using this vintage EVO300 head at rehersals of late and its quite impressive for 20+ year old amp. It's all original and has its factory 300 watt mosfet output board and XTE3 transformer. I've owned a few 300 watt ABM's and they have all done the job. They may not have the raw grunt of the bigger 500/600 watt variants but if anything they sound more refined and the mosfet powered ones imho do sound a little warmer and smoother.  Not a huge difference in loudness between the 300's & 500's either when they are cooking at gig level outputs. I've always been curious whether Ashdown sell many of the 300 watt models these days as they rarely come up for sale used. Could that be because their owners like the 300's as much if not more than their bigger bretheren? or is 300 watts just an ideal size for pub gigs?

On 30/07/2023 at 21:22, jezzaboy said:

To be honest, the 4 x 8 is blooming heavy and not any good for my band on it`s own, it really needs to be paired with the 15

Ashdown on occasion come up with some super sounding cabs that seem to excel in certain circumstances. The ABM 4x8 is in my experience a tremendously good sounding cab in lower volume environments like studio and small rehearshals despite its massive power rating. It does need a bit of scooping on the low end to get the best from it or run with a second cab. Another cab that comes to mind which has an almost similar profile in my experience was the latest Rootmaster EVOII 2x10 sealed cab. Loved the sound of it, really was great for home and light studio session use but it really struggled in a live enviroment without even being driven with anywhere near the power it was designed to cope with.  Used alongisde an RM EVO II 1x15 it sort of worked for live use if the power was kept well inside spec.

Not sure 100 watts of class d power fpr the beta bass constitues a hard sell IMHO, especially at nearly $800. Maybe 1000 watts would?. Could be a typo on the sale blurb?