xgsjx

[quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1394216469' post='2389298'] the point you are making is rubbish! any amp is tested and will be fine! the extra heat your talking about is designed in to the amp and wint hurt anything in it, im mean if your that worried about the components im surprised you ever turn your bloody amp on! and the extra headroom increases the chance of clipping?! [/quote] How do you work it out to be rubbish? I've tried to explain it simply, but I think you're either missing what I'm saying completely or think I'm meaning it'll kill the amp (which I'm not). I'm not saying don't run at 4 ohms. I run mine at 4 ohms when needed at a gig. Could you explain how it reduces the potential for clipping? I'm not asking to make an argument, I like to find out a much about gear as I can & how things work, which is why I spend time reading on here, the Barefaced site, BFM's forum & anywhere else that discusses sound systems. I like to get the best from what I have.

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1394195973' post='2389004'] Yes but you are gaining something - the extra power headroom. Yes it might only be a couple of DB in practice but why throw it away for some unquantifiable supposed reliability gain. If were going to swap car analogies then its like buying a 4 seater car but never carrying more than 2 passengers on the basis that it will wear out less quickly - in the vast majority of cases it wont make any measurable difference over the expected time span of use. [/quote] Bill worded that the opposite way round from you. his words were "[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Voltage sensitivity is increased by 3dB, but that's at the cost of doubled current draw"[/font][/color] [font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#282828"]​So you're willing to have twice as much heat going through your amp for 3db if you're using a [/color][/font][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]single cab[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]? It's your choice, I'm only giving information that I've [/font][/color][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#282828"]acquired.[/color][/font] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The "extra headroom" also increases the chances of clipping. You've got twice as much current going through things.[/font][/color]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1394185279' post='2388776'] Its doing what it was designed to do and the vast majority of people using amps in this way will get a lifetime of use out of them. [/quote] I never said that it wasn't. I said "why use a single 4Ω cab if there's an identical 8Ω cab as you're not going to gain anything other than putting extra load on the components". It's really that simple. I don't know how you're managing to find it so difficult. You like sports cars. You drive it like an every day car & you only need to service it once a year. You start racing it, you put more strain on the components (they're working harder). They are designed to deal with it but you might find that it needs more servicing. If you're using a good quality amp, then you might find you rarely need to service it, but it will need a service sooner if it's been running at 4Ω rather than 8Ω. If you're using a cheaper amp, then the parts are less likely to handle the increased heat.

Just had a google & the Mothership can be got over here easily enough. It's not the cheapest though.

Actually, there is. Pigtronix Mothership. It's a synth pedal that doesn't need MIDI or CV to trigger it. & there's the Guyatone MOM5 Both US made & not easy to get in the UK (unless you have a US friend).

[quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1394137800' post='2388433'] never had a problem with if you run your amp at full volume and gain it will die pretty quick! but xgsix said was that this strain could also be caused by running your amp at 4 ohms or whatever your lowest impedance is. [/quote] So are you're saying that running an amp at gigging volume into its minimum load isn't affecting the amps components?

I don't believe there is such a thing in pedal format without going down the MIDI / synth route. The closest I've managed to get is the Boss octaver into a Moog LPF (I've even got flats on the bass to keep things as O as poss).

[quote name='Prosebass' timestamp='1394102030' post='2387885'] Sorry to be a pedant but the lower the resistance = more current drawn [/quote] I did mean that, but was trying to word it to make it easier to understand (which isn't a good thing, as it then sounds backwards).

I never said that either Chris. Yes, it's safe to run an amp at 4Ω (or in your case, 2Ω). But the higher the resistance you put on it, the more current is drawn, therefore the hotter the components get. It's really that simple. The amp should be built to withstand the extra load, but if you don't need to put the extra strain on the amp, why would you want to? Your car's engine is designed to run up to the red line without any damage & racing cars run regularly to that & get regular services, whereas with my car, even though it's safe to do so, I don't run my car to the red line all the time as it means I'll need more servicing to keep it in good nick.

[quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1394095267' post='2387790'] Ok so why say it? Just seems to be a way of worrying people who are new to heads and cabs. Andy [/quote] Not trying to worry anyone, just pass on information that can help prolong the life of an amp. Why would you want to not know?

Try some 2x12s, you might get a surprise. Like I said, it's not the 10s that have the sound, but the speaker & the cab design. Barefaced are designed to sound the way they do. I bet the 10s in my Markbass sound hugely different to the ones in your Orange.

If clipping is bothering you, have you considered turning the preamp gain down a touch or is it as low as it can go? Most amp manufacturer's directions for setting the preamp is to play until the clip light comes on at normal playing & then turn it back a small amount & then leave it. Set the volume with the power amp. But like has been said, it's down to how you want to sound.

You should try the PC 4x10 yourself as it may not sound anything like the Orange. The Orange (& the Barefaced) don't sound like they do due to the speaker diameter or layout, but what make of drivers are used & how the cab is designed.

[quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1394052569' post='2387487'] im sorry but really! your never meant to run 2 cabs? with any amp then? if an amp has a min impedance of 4 ohms its fine to run at 4 ohms, the problem would be if you were running said amp at max volume (digital amps not valve) ie everything at 10 and clipping the amp to hell. which to get the volume the op needs would be the problem here. andy [/quote] No need to apologise. I (nor Bill) never said that you shouldn't run 2 cabs. I said that running the amp at it's minimum impedance is wearing out the components quicker. Yes, amps are tested to take the extra strain on the components, but if there's a 4 ohm & an 8 ohm cab & you're only running the one cab, then it's not worth wearing out your amp that bit more with the 4 ohm cab for something you're probably not going to notice. If you're adding a 2nd cab, then you're gonna hear the difference, so it's probably worth the trade off.

For the bass sound that I want, it's an octaver into a filter splitter that splits the lows to a clean channel & the rest go through distortion then into a low pass filter & topped with a dollop of chorus. So that's Boss OC3, Moog MF105b, PSK SDS2, Moog MF101 & Boss CE2. There's also a routing pedal that I made that is an fx loop & 2 channel mixer which allows me to switch the OC3, MF105b & the SDS2 all on/off at once.

[quote name='Handwired' timestamp='1394001009' post='2386690'] Not the same at all. [/quote] How so? Here's exactly how BFM described the increased current draw when running an amp to it's minimum impedance... [quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Rule # 1 of loudspeaker design: There's no such thing as a free lunch. What you gain with respect to voltage sensitivity with a lower impedance load comes at the expense of increased current draw. To preserve a balance between voltage and current headroom you should avoid running an amp into its minimum rated impedance load.[/quote][/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Why?[/font][/color] [quote]Potential for clipping, and heat, which shortens the life of amp components. Think of an amp as an engine. You wouldn't want to drive a car with the RPMs always red-lined.[/quote] Given that he knows his stuff, I've no reason not to believe him.

Is that with the Thunderfunk running them?

Do you find any volume difference between the 1x12 & the 2x12 when using both?

I had TI Jazz flats, now have D'Addario Chromes. Had I only ever had the Chromes, then they would be excellent, but the TI's are totes amazeballs! The only reason that I changed was I successfully broke the D string whilst playing "Hit Me" & couldn't afford another set or source a single "D". The Chromes are quite bright for flats, but they do dull down (or maybe I was used to hearing 3 1/2 year old flats).

I'd never go back to rounds. But it depends on the sound you want.

The Moog is a fantastic sounding filter. I have it & use the expression pedal to control the cutoff & also have a control on my bass to adjust the auto follower if I decide I want some funk in a song.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1393761610' post='2384033'] Running an amp at "full load" is what it is designed to do and should not represent a "strain". [/quote] That's what one would hope, but in reality, it doesn't work like that. As BFM says, "it's like running your car to the red line all the time".

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1393748367' post='2383861'] There is no "extra strain" on an amp running at 4 ohms! [/quote] Running an amp at full load means there's more heat going through your amp's components, which is the trade off. I'd call that "extra strain".

I used to have a Trace Elliot 4x10 combo. Replaced it with a MarkBass 2x10 combo & it put a big smile on my face.

If you're trying to keep the budget down, then Genz Benz are worth a look just now. I'd be trying gear out though to see what you like, there's a lot of good gear out there at all sorts of prices. I would always aim to get an 8 ohm cab unless the one you want is only made in 4 ohm. The difference in volume is so little that it's not worth restricting your future or the extra strain on the amp.