ambient

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1382365311' post='2251216'] We do a lot like that but rarely stick to roots.....our guitarist often 'tries' to communicate with theory...last night he was trying to work out which key a new middle8 is in...I said that it doesn't really have a key and he conceded defeat...so what key would a passage that went D,up to A, up to Bb,down to D#, upto A, down to C#, up to G, down to D through F and E be in???? whoops I've just given away our latest middle8.. [/quote] Music doesn't have to be in one key. Music can change key centres through a piece, jazz often does.

This is why I've put collection only on the 3 adverts where I've sold basses.

I think most couriers are the same if you read the small print, their enhanced insurance is a waste of money.

[quote name='Stan_da_man' timestamp='1382355254' post='2250980'] Who uses theory to create music? Music should be a spur of the moment, I just thought of a great idea in my head thing. Theory lacks soul and music really needs that to make it special. [/quote] Composers I guess dude. Look at an orchestral score, or SATB vocal score, the harmony is horizontal instead of vertical (they don't use chords as such) giving them a chord chart or trying to explain to them what notes you wanted them to sing or play if you yourself didn't know would be rather difficult, and very time consuming. As others have said, theory or harmony is there anyway whether you think you're using it or not, or even whether you want to or not. It exists in every piece of music, every song has a harmonic structure to it. Just 'cos the writer wasn't aware that he was using a perfect V-I cadence at the end of the song, it may just sound like amen to him, but it's a perfect cadence to someone else. No-one needs to know harmony. It all depends on how what you want from the music you play. I've been playing professionally for a number of years, and want to progress, I'm currently studying for a degree in music. I like arranging and composing and would like to go on after college and do a lot of that. If someone asked me now to do a string part for their song, strings are used a lot in music nowadays, I'd be able to, and if they could afford real strings I'd be able to to scores in sibelius for the musicians. You can't give a chord chart to a string section, it'd be too expensive. You couldn't do that without a knowledge of harmony.

They're all just tools at the end of the day. Being able to read standard notation. Being able to confidently play something appropriate when given a chord chart. Having the physical skill (technique) to play what is required. Having good listening skills to know by hearing what's going on harmonically. Having these doesn't make you a more creative player, but it does make you a more in demand and employable player. Here's a quote from Anthony Wellington's facebook page. He's a musician that I really admire, notice the word musician . It's a bit long, but says a lot. [i][color=#333333]Today, on my TalkBass 'ask a pro' page, a guy asked me if I thought that there were any players out there that were MORE superior than others. I assumed that he meant 'more elite than the elite,...or jazz players. He also asked if I knew any bass or drum 'savants'.[/color] [color=#333333]Here's my long ass response![/color] [color=#333333]"Actually, there are very few players that I hear that I feel are superior than most. Only 2 or 3 come to mind. [/color] [color=#333333]I've been a teacher for a very long time so I don't evaluate someone's playing on whether I like what they do or not. I base it on what I refer to as their 'toolbox'. [/color] [color=#333333]For me,...musicians are craftsmen! And when you think of what we do in those terms things become more clear. You not only hire a craftsman for the ideas that they have but also for having the 'tools' to bring those ideas to fruition.[/color] [color=#333333]Think of Da Vinci,...[/color] [color=#333333]He not only had to have the idea of the Mona Lisa but he also had to have the 'tools' to bring her to life. If he had the idea without the 'tools' we wouldn't have the Mona Lisa and if he had the 'tools' without the idea we wouldn't have the Mona Lisa.[/color] [color=#333333]For me,...[/color] [color=#333333]Victor Wooten has the biggest toolbox of any bass player I've ever heard or 'evaluated'! And I've checked MOST of them out. And Victor's has one of the BIGGEST imaginations out there too!. I'm not saying that he's my favorite bass player,...even though he is one of them. But I like my OWN playing more than I like his. But I like my own playing more than I like anyone's bass playing because I have yet to hear anyone play the bass in a way that expresses what I feel. NEVER! Only I can do that for me. [/color] [color=#333333]But Victor is not trapped by the instrument that he plays like a lot of musicians are. His ideas are bigger than the bass guitar.[/color] [color=#333333]Most of the bass players I've heard over my career are good at 1 thing. Some are good at a couple of things. But to me that's like a basketball player being good at 'driving to his right'. He can be better at that than anyone on the planet but once an opposing coach realizes that 'driving to his right' is his 'go to' move, he can be rendered 'non-effective'. The defenses can 'play him to his right'. He's exposed![/color] [color=#333333]I don't want to go into any more detail than that because it'll be obvious, in some cases, who I am talking about. But listening, knowledge, dexterity, 'rhythmically complexity' are huge parts of the equation. And I find that Jazz musicians in general lack in rhythmic complexity. And Jazz musicians have been horrible writers for the last 30 years. That's why current Jazz musician's compositions haven't been added to the 'Real Book'. For the most part when you hear a Jazz band you're hearing a 'cover band' playing songs written before 1970. If you don't believe me,...just think of who YOU think is the current preeminent Jazz musician of our day and name 5 of their songs. Is it Wynton? Name 5 Wynton Marsalis Songs![/color] [color=#333333]I know of a couple of bass players and drummers who I consider savants,...but I won't name them because they may not like that label. I believe that there is a very thin line between 'genius' and 'savant'."[/color][/i]

Didn't realise it was widely disliked. If it was then why would most towns and cities around the world have bother to have jazz festivals each year ? Why is there a national Jazz FM radio station ? Why are there magazines and books devoted to it ? Why am I playing in a jazz band at a posh wedding next Saturday night ?

Imagine you're a singer or guitarist or both, or whatever, and your band is looking for a new bass player. Your old one has left and you have an absolutely vitally important showcase gig coming up in 2 days time, but you only have one rehearsal. Wouldn't it be great if you the band could say to the bassist, well the tune starts with a Bb minor pentatonic, the chords in the verse are Bbm7/Ebm7 etc, etc, the chorus is this and so on and so on....... And wouldn't it be great if the bass player new exactly what you were on about ? Wouldn't it be even more brilliant if you could write out the bass lines for him or her from your demo, and present them in standard notation ? He or she could just play them off at the rehearsal and you'd all be very happy. Or shall we all just stick with not actually knowing what we're doing, or maybe just have an idea here or there and maybe come up with something good, and maybe not .

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1382292532' post='2250245'] A lot of people who learn theory neglect the most important part - ear training. For example its all very well knowing that G -> C is a perfect cadence in C but if you cant "hear" what it sounds like in your mind then the knowledge is of little use. [/quote] To know what the notes are at each fret, and to know the relationship between them. I don't see how someone who knows where an A is, and where a C sharp is, and knows the relationship between them, plays them and doesn't hear how they sound from one to another, and that they're the first 2 notes from while shepherds wash their socks. Same with the other intervals, and cadences. You hear amen at the end of a hymn, if you learn that's a plagel cadence, how'd you not know what it sounds like ?

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1382293188' post='2250260'] That makes no sense. To know what a perfect cadence is I have to know what it sounds like. Anyway who are these people neglecting ear training while learning supposed theory. If there are such people then they aren't learning anything. [/quote] What I said .

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1382292532' post='2250245'] A lot of people who learn theory neglect the most important part - ear training. For example its all very well knowing that G -> C is a perfect cadence in C but if you cant "hear" what it sounds like in your mind then the knowledge is of little use. [/quote] I think that's another myth, personally . Same as the one about classical players not being able to improvise. It's something we're taught at uni, but most people I know, even drummers there have great hearing and are able to recognise cadences and intervals, it's part of being a musician. If you take the time and effort to learn the theory/harmony side of your playing, why would you neglect the aural side ?

[quote name='AM1' timestamp='1382288566' post='2250141'] [sub]So it is a ghost note? That makes sense. Ta. The D then is just naturalised as it would be sharp otherwise due to the key signature. OK. Yes, double sharps are usually in front of the note in normal sheet music, so bass transcriptions seem to follow the same protocol. [/sub] [/quote] Bass transcriptions are normal sheet music, just written for bass , but yes you're absolutely right dude.

You use the theory knowledge without thinking about it. If someone says play over Em7/A7/D/D I don't start thinking, [i]now what can I play over that ?[/i] I automatically think, that's a II/V/I/I in D and play something appropriate without thinking and without going through a load of nonsense before finally coming up with something that works. All this, theory is bad and takes away your creativity is a load of utter b****cks put about by people who can't be bothered to learn the language.

It's a 'dead' note, it's there but has no actual pitch as such, used a lot in syncopated stuff especially slapping. A double sharp is a cross in front of the note it applies to.

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1381679394' post='2242195'] Thanks for the contribution, Ambient. All additions to the thread are always great. [/quote] No problem, I emailed Bagsie a few things last week. If anyone wants and tab free charts just pm me and I'll email them some. I don't wanna get in trouble with my uni by scanning their books and posting them up on the internet.

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1382248659' post='2249635'] As nobody has mentioned it, I try to keep a diary of my practice. It helps show progress, especially if you put down the metronome bpm you can play riffs at if you're trying to get faster. WRT time per day. Id love to say it's a regular 2 hours, but with a job, mortgage etc, life isn't so easy to find the time every day. To all the young out there; use the time well. Its a luxury you won't always have. [/quote] That's a good suggestion. Another slightly related is to plan your practice. List the ares you want to work on, decide how much time you've actually got and split that time up accordingly.

About 7 hours today. Lot of sight reading, some improv over melodic and harmonic minor modes and major 7# and b5 arpeggios. I always use a metronome varying the tempo and listening to the articulation and listening out to check my string dampening. I have tendency to play my notes a bit short sometimes. I also try and do some transcribing most days, either just rhythmic melodic or both. Keyboard practice too. Plus work for uni, arranging, composing, harmony and theory revision and stuff like that.

If you're looking for lessons from a really great bass player/teacher with a great lyrical or vocal like style contact Steve Lawson, he's living in Birmingham now. I had lessons from him for a couple of years, he's a very good teacher.