ambient

That’s changed in the recent immigration rules though, hence this thread.

That’s what I keep saying, it’s across the board, the whole of the artistic industry.

I wonder if our perception of working in the arts has a bearing in our reaction to this, ie, it not being a ‘proper’ job? I’m pretty sure there would uproar if the government introduced something that impacted the construction industry, which employs a similar number of people, and raises a similar amount for the country’s economy.

A friend I was at uni with moved there last year. His wife is American which helped, but he still had to overcome massive hurdles.

The creative industry employees some half a million people, that’s as many as the construction industry. It brings £110 billion into the economy. In contrast, fishing employs 11,000 full-time people, and delivers £1 billion to the economy. Which industry is being listened to, which ignored? It also has wider implications. Without going off topic, I’m a musician it’ll affect me travelling to perform in whatever guise. I’m also an academic, my PhD is practical based. Academia relies heavily on travelling and meeting people, especially so where the two fields meet.

Very. They’re also less likely to get knocked, or in my house; Joshed, Josh being my 5 year old nephew, Joshed being what tends to happen to items he touches, somehow they’re never quite the same again 😂. My cat hides in the airing cupboard when she hears him.

You’re braver than me 😊

Music, composition.

It was one of a lot of possible outcomes they considered, depending on what the final relationship is. It was one they dismissed though. If as seems likely there’s holdups on the border, then they’ll likely leave anyway. Sunderland has already lost the new X-trail. https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/business/business-news/nissan-xtrail-japan-sunderland-plant-15773643 I'm personally not too bothered about them, they voted how they voted. My concern is the creative sector, which is where I work, that’s where my PhD research lies.

Nissan dismissed that as being incorrect. It’s off topic too, risking the thread from being locked.

I’m guessing the giveaway might be when the luggage is x-rayed at the train station. Boarding a Eurostar you have to go through both that country’s immigration then the UK immigration. It’s currently a very simple procedure, a lot easier than the last time i flew, but it’s still there, and likely to get more robust; don’t forget that the immigration lanes will be changing. If they see that you’re carrying musical equipment and a bundle of cassettes, CDs and vinyl, then put 2+2 together, you risk I guess being refused entry.

I keep saying it, but this isn’t just about bands and musicians, it’s the whole creative sector; which according to the guardian yesterday is worth £110 billion, far more than fishing for example. Something I posted earlier was how this is going to reduce opportunity for UK youngsters. Previously anyone of us who had a mind to could have worked anywhere in anyone of thirty countries. If they didn’t then fine, but that opportunity was there. From January 2021 the number of countries available for them to work in, without the need for a visa, or obtaining a job beforehand will be one. I mentioned DJs, it’s not something I’ve any experience in, but I do know DJing is far more than just playing a record, it’s hugely popular, and it makes up a big part of the creative industry’s income. It’s focused in certain areas though, and I don’t think either Butlins in Minehead or the Ball room in Blackpool are part of that scene? I wonder how many kids had dreams to be the next big star or even to just work in some manner in one of the big clubs in Ibiza? These jobs will go to locals or people from other EU countries. I’ve never heard of any of these names, most seem to be British though. http://www.deephouseamsterdam.com/ibiza/10-dj-legends-of-ibiza/

https://www.seat61.com/index-mobile.htm

To get back on point. Previously you and everyone else who had a mind to, could have worked in a creative capacity; either as a musician, a dancer, actor, or whatever, in anyone of thirty different countries. From next January, you’ll be able to do so in just one. Probably the only people who will be able to carry on working across borders are the ones already high up in the pecking order. So how is that helping anyone who’s been left behind? It’s actually cutting off opportunity, because unless they have money behind them, or they're able to do it through academia, then they’ll encounter obstacles. Take DJs for example. A kid with a desire to DJ in a club or bar in Spain or a Greek island could have done that, the opportunity was there, many took it. Now those jobs will be taken by locals, or by youngsters from within the EU. How many young people spent their summers working behind a bar in Spain? Oddly working as a DJ or a dancer in Blackpool just doesn’t have the same air of romanticism about it.

But we won’t necessarily have €75 billion to spend; a figure that ignores by the way, our rebate, it also ignores what we’d have got back in grants and other payments, but just because we would have paid it, that doesn’t mean that we’ll have it to spend.

I think this thread is becoming rather pointless. It’s veered off track so much. As with this everything else with Brexit, two sides with very entrenched views. Here though, you have musicians and artists who have got experience of performing and working across borders, being told they’re wrong, by people who have absolutely zilch experience or ambition of doing so. What bands did forty years ago, has absolutely no bearing on what artists do now.

Have you asked UK farmers about dropping import duties?

What will they do with the specialist breeds? For many their market is the EU, if they can’t sell it there, then they’ll go bust. They also have only a very short space of time to introduce these special breeds; and don’t say they’ve had three years, because Br@@@ has so far been a red, white and blue thing, it’s been something where nothing much will change, it’s been something where we hold all the cards, it’s been oven-ready, yet they still can’t say with 100% certainly what it will be.

Seriously, it’s so easy. The last few times I’ve just taken a MacBook and various controllers for Ableton. I have taken a bass and an effects board, plus luggage all without a problem. My friend took a contrabassoon to a show we both played in Paris before Christmas. Check the stripped down rig Steve Lawson has taken with him to Italy by train.

It’s not just that though. For someone to come here and play, they need a certificate of sponsorship. That has to be issued by an approved and licensed promoter or organiser. How many organisers are going to do that? There’s thousands of creative and artistic events take place every year across the UK, they’re mostly done by independent organisers, with little or no budget. They’re not going to get licensed or officially approved, therefore the guy coming from Amsterdam with his MacBook and midi controller won’t be able to come.

Eurostar to Brussels is a couple of hours, then Thalys to Germany is another hour or so. My trip to Paris a fortnight ago was £36 return. My trip to Stockholm cost me £70 return. I could have flown, my university was paying. They were really happy when I said I’d rather go by train. My friend is currently playing and doing some bass masterclasses in Italy, he’s gone by train. My friend who’s a cellist played in Portugal with Gavin Bryars last year, she went by train. Like I say, there’s no hassle with your gear, it’s city centre to city centre. It’s so easy. It’s not just economics though, that’s what I was saying on here a few hours ago, it’s the cross pollination of ideas, actually meeting people from other countries and playing together, or just seeing first hand what they’re doing.

I travel by train 😁. Most people I know do, it’s cheaper, easier, they don’t make a fuss about gear, and it’s green.

The ending of FoM is only for us too.

Do you think trading with America or the Far East is a particularly good idea, bearing in mind the distances involved and the need to cut down on unnecessary transportation? You also didn’t answer my earlier question when I asked what you thought our farmers would do when our market is flooded with American cheap food.