Lowender

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1377808045' post='2192281'] Excellent..! Many thanks for posting. I'm far from specialist in the esoteric world of top-end bass virtuosi, but found this to be about as intelligent as it gets. Not so much for the individual technicality as for the obvious enjoyment between the two, and the musical interplay going on. Necessarily written, rather than improvised, and executed with marvellous precision (..?), not stilted for all that, and well 'locked in'. Does it get any better than that..? No, at least not until the next opus, either from the same stable or from yet another hitherto unknown rising star. I certainly hope so, anyway. I'm not one to denigrate on the basis on 'having heard it before', or accuse of 'chops recycling'. Not much of anyone is truly original, anyway, and it's not always the first with a new touch that use it the best. It's the overall result which counts more, to me, than much else. Kudos equally for the drummer here, without whom the solo wouldn't work at all. Fine work by both parties, and a general round of applause. A good one. [/quote] I agree. Good player but certainly nothing extraordinary. And the song is lame.

Guys, I think that's a joke -- one of those "so and so shreds" goofs.

I think the Jeff Berlin model tops the cake. A worthty contender would be the Ibanez Grooveline -- The Edsel of Basses. Also, the MM Bongo toilet seat. And I think Foderas are pretty dorky too.

The CV 's are fine basses and generally consistant. In the 80's, Fender was dicey, so you might get a gem or a dog. There's no way of any of us being able to tell without playing it.

Taylor is great -- the one real musician in the band and they exploited that. He also had the look though. Lots of trite pop stuff from the 60's and 70's had great bass players. I think some death metal bassists are amazing but I can't stand the music.

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1377631640' post='2189731'] You misjudge me, old thing. I'm just interested to hear your songwriting. Of course it's prompted by your claims, but I will be listening as a music fan because that's really all I care about, music's not a competition. Have you a Soundcloud account you can link to? Much easier than the file management system here and I can't work out how to attach a file either Cheers. [/quote] What's ya pleasure? Jazz? Rock? Or solo bass?

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1377611361' post='2189357'] May I hear some of your music please? [/quote] Sure, but I am well aware that's a no win proposition because ANYTHING can be criticized. And it's doubtful someone is going to be receptive to someone with whom they want to prove wrong. How do you attach an mp3 here?

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1377597599' post='2189103'] It's about being lovely to listen to rather than being memorable and being able to play the bassline. If you want memorable, listen to One Direction. I have the Esperanza Spalding album, I love it. And this is a genre of music I usually detest (it's that sort of Snarky Puppy territory that makes me puke a bit in my mouth), but she brings it alive with her writing and voice and overall vibe. Being memorable as a quality factor is totally subjective init. Depends on how good your memory is aswell. Also you say she lacks in the songwriting department. On what criteria are you making these judgements? [/quote] All the great music that lasts through the ages has been memorable -- from Bach, to Beethoven to Gershwin to the Beatles. "Nice music to listen to" is fine while waiting in the dentsts' office. Music being memorable has nothing to do with memory. I can learn and memorize a part pretty quickly, but that doesn't make it memorable music. Most people know nothing of opera but they can hum Nessun Dorma or Paliacci because the melodies are so memorable. And One Direction don't have memorable melodis, that have REPETITIVE melodies -- or what I call "nursery rhyme" melodies. That isn't good songwriting either, but it is arguably better than ES in regard to construction. Just using a lot of changes and dense chords doesn't mean much. That's how I used to write before I learned how to write better songs. What criteria am I using to make the judgement that ES songwriting is lacking? The same as anyone else's -- opinion. And I think my opinion is somewhat educated. Also, the fact that she 's got a ton of promotion and no hits says something. I don;t want to make this a ES bashing or defense. I think she's fine. My comment was a passing thought, and there will always be someone who wants to escalate it. My original point was that the article had some great players that aren't well know and that's cool. But instead of evaluating the choices or even offering others choices, people just seem to want to complain that it didn't suit them exactly as they preferred. I just don't get that.

You can make the argument that any music that has an audience is pop music.

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1377525660' post='2188451'] To my ears Foderas sound very similar to jazz basses! [/quote] But not quite as good.

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1377527786' post='2188479'] good old popular appeal shall we vote for the lovely Esperanza or wait for the next heap of talentless dross served up by simon scowell (he is jolly good at mass popular appeal after all) [/quote] I wasn't equating popularity with quality. But I feel with all ES has going for her, she already has a fast track to public attention, but she lacks in the songwriting department and for that reason her appeal remains limited. "I Don't Care" is mindless junk, but it's catchy. I feel the best artists manage with combine musical ability with with memorable melodies -- Beatles, Yes, Chick Corea, Led Zeppelin, Iron Maiden -- they all have great players and hooks you can sing along to.

Depends on your definition. Iron Maiden would be considered a "rock" band by hardcore metal guys. There are so many sub genres. Bottom line, no melody or hooks, no mass appeal. I can;t believe people are still listening to that stupid growling that they do in some metal bands. It's like listening to music while mowing the lawn.

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1377508405' post='2188163'] [media]http://youtu.be/2aRC3YY3svs[/media] [/quote] Ha! Agreed, but Esperanza isn't exactly "unknown." She got an Grammy, she'll have to be happy with that. : ) And is this really "jazz?" it's more R&B. I think ES is tremendously talented but I have to say, her music leaves me a little flat. 10 seconds after this song was over, I could play the bassline but I couldn't sing a single lyric or melody line. It just wasn't memorable. And for that reason I don't think she'll ever crossover to having mass popular appeal.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1377520964' post='2188393'] I agree with that but all the Mexican basses I have tried were dogs yet the guitars brilliant, so on a personal level 100% of Mexican basses are rubbish [/quote] I agree with that as well. I can't remember playing a good Mexi. I'd put them on par with the VM Squiers. The CV Squiers blow the Mexis away.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1377514058' post='2188268'] I'm talking about new Subs, ..the range realsed in the last year or so.. or that is when I had the conversation. [/quote] Brand New. They essentially built a factory in Indonesia with the same specs and the parts as the California plant. Result -- same bass, with workers who get 1/16 of the pay. That may not be good for the American economy but it makes for a great deal on a bass.

[quote name='deanovw' timestamp='1377443121' post='2187564'] People with lots of money tend to buy expensive instruments. Not many musicians I know have lots of money. Maybe I am moving in the wrong circles. [/quote] true. But the irony is, custom built and boutique have an even lesser re-sale value because they specifications are specific for the original buyer. Though I did make a little profit when I sold my Fodera. Then again, I had it for many years. Never did pan out. I hope the new owner is enjoying it.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1377467221' post='2187956'] A rep was most keen to tell me that the Subs were pretty close in quality with regular EB's.... really..?? That is MM in trouble then..... IMO. I recall MM of old and my MM was one of the best basses I've owned.... I have to say that I am not a big fan on EBMM that I have come across lately so .. maybe I just don't get them these days... but I would not like to to think the Subs are indicative of todays MM basses. That would be quite a blow.. [/quote] I have a MM and a SUB and I concur. it's ridiculous.

Actually... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vE4FoJ4Cr4

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1377441295' post='2187537'] Jazz does often get forgotten doesn't it [/quote] Hmmm, good point. lol Well, there are a few "jazzy" moments, then again, who's doing anything new in jazz on an electric?

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1377424751' post='2187254'] And that's the thing isn't it, as a representation of a variety of bass styles and skills it's way short of the mark. There were a couple I liked, but the general gist of it is one geezer's idea of what he likes to see in bassists, and he's very limited by what he's heard and what he likes. The first guy doing the Tom Sawyer slap thing was awful. Zero beauty. Andy Saxton is excellent. The guy doing Roundabout was very good too. [/quote] A thrash metal guy, a funk gal, a melodic fretless player, a deep groove guy, a tapper, a fusion soloist, a rock pick player, a chord melody player etc. Seemed pretty diverse to me. I can think of a few people I'd say were equal, or maybe better, but I can't say this or that style was missing.

Guitars are not good investments. Even if you have a 1969 Precision, which would be worth about $4000, you have to realize that when it was purchased it cost $400, which in todays market is about $2000. So it would take over 40 years to make about 500 pounds. Hardly a fiscal coup.

[quote name='spinynorman' timestamp='1377358954' post='2186705'] I've never understood how Fender get away with charging more for instruments made in America. Amongst country music players in the mid-west US there might be some patriotic appeal, but otherwise the only reason they'd be better is if Fender deliberately make the Mexican ones worse. [/quote] In a word , yes. The wood that isn't as good, goes to Mexico. Little parts that cost a few pennies less, go to Mexico. The workers are cheaper so the quality control isn't up to the same standards. They don;t use the reinforcement in the neck like they've don on the later MIA models. They cut big holes in the body so they can have machines install the wiring. There is certainly a difference between the MIM and the MIA. Then again, I think a Squier CV is superior to a MIM, but not a MIA.

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1377333324' post='2186259'] Some interesting players although a lot of it is a bit too slappy or soloey for me. There are so many other great players out there too that didn't make it on, no shortage of inspiration for bass players on the internet these days. [/quote] I agree though it's hard not to escape the "up-frontness' of good slap bass. Many aren't slapping though, and I must admit Lydia's groove is one I want to learn. The first guy is just insane. And the others are just playing interesting bass for the most part. Actually Andy's stuff is the one I'd leave alone. It's more tapping. It's great, but it's his thing whereas I'll tap for maybe one measure every 100 songs or so . lol

Another thing to keep in mond. Sometimes when buying a boutique bass it's easy to be taken in by the "feel." Yes, a Fodera or a Ken Smith or an Alembic have a certain "solidity" to them. But play it long enough and then go back to a Fender and it's like...hmmm, there's something about THAT feel that feels good. I played an Alembic for a while and its unique broad frequency sound was so attractive. But then I started getting sick of it. I crave a bass that sounded like a bass. Go figure. But I think this may be the reason people so often go back to standard instruments.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1377342224' post='2186441'] Not the sales tactic I would want to follow... Never liked the "they can afford it, so they can pay it" ethic. It should the same price to all.....not just a certain price to a richer person..and less to someone else... [/quote] Actually, I've done that -- twice. And I know others who've had custom builds. They almost never worked out. And then, good luck selling it. (Though I'd love to work with a major company until they get it right. Are you listening Fender?lol) The thing is, one never really knows how a guitar is going to come out, when designing it. There are so many variables. How many versions has Fender come out with? Meanwhile, the ones most pros use are the original standard American P and J. Music Man came out with a different concept but then added several others, but the definitive MM sound is still the Ray. I believe Ibanez have a sound as well and they came out with their high end Prestige line, which to me sound no different that the SR500's at half the price.