sirmuppet

[quote name='ikay' timestamp='1506863671' post='3381564']
My P bass setup below for comparison (all measurements taken the same way as yours). Probably not a lot of use in scientific terms as all basses are unique and there are many factors that affect tone and playability. The setup below is the result of several years of playing and fine tuning this particular bass and works well for my playing style (mainly finger style jazz/funk/pop).

Bass: 1973 P with original pickup
Fingerboard: Rosewood
Relief: just a smidge (I like a fairly straight neck)
Strings: DR Sunbeams 40 / 60 / 80 / 100
String action at 17th fret (mm): G 3.7 / D 4.0 / A 4.0 / E 4.5
Height above pickup poles (mm): G 5.5 / D 6.0 / A 8.0 / E 6.0

This setup gives an even output across the strings (no weak G) and the tone is quite open and responsive to touch.

One thing worth mentioning is that raising a pickup to compensate for a weak string isn't always the best thing. I find that lowering pickups and having a bit more air between the string and polepieces often results in a more even, open and fuller sound along with a wider range of playing dynamics.
[/quote]

Cool, thanks for the reply. I noticed you use light strings. One person had said it was a way to get an even output as they had suggested Ernie Ball Super Slinkys in their post.

I'll give lowering the pickup a try.

Good call on the relief, that's one thing I forgot to mention. Mine is 0.30 cappo on the first and held down on the last. Same for both basses. I think that's what Fender suggests. Also the USA is a maple board and the mex is rosewood, I'll update my post.

Also I should add I'm a plectrum player, 60mm dunlop tortex with a medium to heavy(ish) play style. Amp is a Fender Super bassman run into a bassman 4x10. No effects or pedals just straight into the amp. This issue with strings happens on my other basses as well but they are strung up with the Prosteels I mentioned.

Hi all.

I started a post a while back about a weak sounding bass but it was discovered that the pickup was at fault. It turned into a post about string balance etc... Since then I've been looking into it somewhat and driving myself nuts. The issue is now with most of my basses and I mainly use P-basses so that's what I'm bassing it on (No pun intended )

So I have 4 String P-basses with a weak G. I've tried lots of things. I have managed to get the volume close but not perfect. So I'll start with the P-bass I used last night.

It's a Fender Mex Passive P-bass deluxe. It's using a Seymour Duncan Quarter Pound (I don't use the jazz pickup at all). Strung with D'addario EXL165 (45, 65, 85, 105). Action is (@ 17th fret uncappo'd) E=3.2mm, A=2.7mm, D=2.7mm, G=2.7mm. Pickup height is (Held down at the last fret) E=3.7mm, A=3.7mm, D=2.7mm, G=1.5mm. Neck relief is 0.30 at the 8th with a cappo on the first and held down at the last fret. Fretboard is rosewood.

I found on the above bass that the G was still slightly weak and a little lacking. I've been finding this on most basses of mine. I even tried EQ'ing my amp different last night with more mids and less treble/bass. I tried settings from Gary Mac in the previous post but that didn't work. I've Googled without coming up with a suggestion. Any ideas?

My other P-bass is a USA standard strung with the same as above, action at the 17th without cappo is: 2.5mm across all strings, Pickup height is (Held down at the last fret) E=4mm, A=5mm, D=4.7mm, G=2.5mm. Neck relief is 0.30 at the 8th with a cappo on the first and held down at the last fret. Fretboard is maple.

Previously I had D'addario EPS160 Prosteels (50, 70, 85, 105) and same issue.

I'd also like to know your setup like I have posted above with action stating cappo or no cappo at the 17th, string gauge and make, bass, pickup height etc... and if you have the same issue or no issue.

Does anyone also know the relationship between string distance, mass and tension. I know distance affects tone and output (Closer higher and more treble). How does mass affect tone and tension? Just that some say a thicker string gives more output but that means more tension and others state higher tension means less vibration which equals less magnetic force and thus less signal. So it seems to contradict itself.

Thanks for any help.

I have the hot stack in my P-bass special. Currently paired with a SPB-2. The hot stack is a nice pickup and adds a good amount of brightness without hum. Though I have to say I usually end up running just my P pickup as when I have the two on at the same time it's hard to break through the mix. One of the main reasons I'm switching back to my Original P pickup but that's another story.

So... Yeah I think the Hot stack is a good choice though when I used the QP set I had no real issues with bad hum. If I remember the stock jazz pickup has been mentioned to be a bit noisier but I never really thought so.

I'e owned a couple of Aerodyne basses. I replaced the pickups with Seymour Duncan Quarter Pounds. Not to everyones taste but I like them. So pickup wise it depends on what you're looking for.

I always thought the pots did the job just fine. Never looked at them but they sounded good and worked without issue.

The bridge is a pain though. Since it's a curved top and the bridge is recessed getting a fitting replacement is a bugger. I have seen a couple of different bridges. My Red Aerodyne had a bridge that had a thicker back plate than my blue one. Again I thought the bridges worked just fine but regular replacements like the Gotoh and Badass etc... will require modification to fit rather than just putting it on like a regular bass.

Cool. thanks. I take it when you mention "[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]E and G strings at the height that want them[/font][/color]" you mean at the saddle? I'm guessing the pickups should also follow this in respect that the radius is tilted somewhat from being 3.6 at one side and 2.4 at the other? Just trying to clarify it as it's what I've done and am just waiting to try it out.

On another note (No pun intended) I have a Jazz bass where all the strings are perfect except for the D which appears a little lower in volume than the rest. Ever encountered this and if so any suggestions on how to correct it?

[quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1502353120' post='3350813']
Glad to hear that you are almost sorted.
[/quote]

Yeah. Never thought until someone mentioned it that it might be a wiring issue as it had been working perfectly before.

Can I pick your brains a tad more? With the E being 3.6mm and the G being 2.4mm do you make the the A 3.2mm and D 2.8mm or do you keep them A 3.6mm and D 2.4mm?

Also I got the EAD strings sounding fine but the G was still a little weak. It was sitting pretty close. Is there a point at which it can be too close and drop output? I know lowering it gives it a bassier tone and generally reduces output a little but not sure if it can be too close and cause output issues without touching the string obviously. I have use your settings on my Jaguar bass but haven't got round to setting up this one with them as yet, just wanted to ask.

I should also point out I use D'addario Prosteel 105-50 gauge. So a little thicker on the D and G strings than D'addarios normal standard gauge.

Thanks.

Didn't clarify the issue. Looked like something was wrong with the wiring but it's fixed now.

I've balanced the pickup height as per Gary Mac's suggestion. Won't get to try it out properly until a week on Sat but after setting it up during sound check on Sat it wasn't a million miles away and I felt like the balance was almost there. With any luck this will get it closer and I can tweak from there onwards. Thanks again for all the advice.

Should have updated this. Got my bass back and it seems to be working perfectly now. Sounds great but just need to balance the strings more. The G sounds weak compared to the other 3. Got it pretty close too. I'll try the above recommendations from Gary Mac.

[quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1500496264' post='3338304']
I sank the whole thing in epoxy. I used nippers to chew down the flatwork. Cool was totally submerged in epoxy, so no need for tape.
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One other question. Did you drill holes in the cover for the pole pieces to poke through or did you leave it covered?

I have a spare Squier P-bass pickup I'll maybe try it with first.

Think after the additional comments it might be Hotcovers. The price works out about the same give or take £5.

[quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1500454186' post='3337810']
Do it yourself. I bought an empty MM pickup shell from EBay. I trimmed down the flatwork of a P pickup and epoxied it into the cover. It worked perfectly!
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Ha ha, that was my original question. Good to know it can be done.

What did you use to trim it down and did you cover the windings in tape to protect from dust?

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1500377996' post='3337275']
Well, it says 'double splitcoil', so I'd think so. Contact Delano - I've done it before, and they were very helpful.
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Cool, was just checking before I give them a shout.

[quote name='GreeneKing' timestamp='1500378961' post='3337281']
Am I the only one thinking 'why not beg/borrow or steal' or even buy a P bass? If you want the tone you haven't got to pay a whole lot. Pickup position is pretty crucial.
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I have two P-basses already, just wanted a similar tone in this bass since it's being rebuilt.

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1500319552' post='3336943']
Those quad coil pickups don't come cheap
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True.


Does anyone know if this pickup would do the same as the Bartolini? https://reverb.com/item/1335191-delano-mc4-he-m2-4-string-musicman-size-quad-coil-pickup EDIT: Delano link not working for some reason.

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1500296016' post='3336716']
Hokay: firstly, that's a great looking bass - Fenderbirds FTW - but I can't see if the pickup has the MM 'ears' or not - I'm guessing you don't want to start routing. Secondly, if it's already a Kent Armstrong, I'd go with the advice above and contact them to see if they'll rebuild it as a Split-P type: I'm sure they would. Having said that, I can see the Bart pickup allows for split-type both forward and reversed, plus all four coils, with a three-way micro switch. I'd be tempted by that...

Position-wise, there's plenty of resources a Google away that'll give you the exact position of a P-pickup. I'd say anywhere within 20mm would be pretty close. It looks quite close judging by the pic.
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Thanks Muzz. I'm getting the body back in the next week or so from being re-finished. Well actually finished as I poorly put a coat of gloss on to protect it. Anyway, I'm hesitant to route it having had it just painted, so a replacement is the only option. The Bart does look a good option and I think my MM is slightly further forward than on a Stingray but don't quote me on that.

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1500297531' post='3336738']
Andy measured it for when he added a P pickup to my Sterling - the 'sweet spot' is 11.5" from 12th fret to the poles of the E/A string. You can do standard or reverse mounting for the treble side, according to your whim.
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Cool. I'll measure where mine is in relation when I get it back. I'd really like to try the reverse D/G. Am thinking the Bartolini is maybe the way to go judging by the switching options. Just wondering if I could have the coils wired to push/push pots on the volume and tone pots. This way I could select standard, reverse P-bass configs along with full front and full rear.

Cheers for the replies

[quote name='ikay' timestamp='1500284201' post='3336615']
One of these maybe? - [url="https://www.bartolini.net/product-tag/quad-coil-splittable/"]https://www.bartolin...oil-splittable/[/url]
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That was the one! Thanks.

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1500287810' post='3336641']
I'm sure there's any number of pickup companies that would build you a split-coil into a MM casing. That would probably be the 'cheap' option, the Enfield pickup is a good shout for lots of options (I'd probably go that route if that was my bass).
Any particular reason you want a split coil sound in that position rather than a humbucker? It would sound like a Precision due to positioning, so might be a bit of a pointless exercise?

Si
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I just prefer a P-bass tone. That said if the location will be an issue to tone then it brings up the question of what will get me in the ballpark while still staying passive?

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1500282841' post='3336603']
Having had both, was going to say Hotcovers > Roqsolid but it looks like your decision has been made!
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[quote name='acidbass' timestamp='1500288784' post='3336646']
Hot Covers for me. Had Roqsolid but they began falling apart after about a year of heavy touring.
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Now you have me both thinking...

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1500280898' post='3336583']
The P-bass sound is as much about positioning as it is pickup construction. If the Musicman pickup you have is in the same place, then it might be worth looking around, but if it isn't then you're compromised to start.

There are soapbar pickups which are P-type pickups underneath and sound very very like P-pickups (the EMG P-35/40s I have in one bass, for example), and I've a Nordy Bigman which is a MM shell with two Big Singles in it, and one of them can get close, but it'd only be close if it's under the right bit of the string... Other then that, I don't know of any offhand, I'm afraid.
[/quote]


Cheers man. I'm not sure exactly how close but here's the bass.



I think it's a little closer to the bridge though than a normal P-bass would be.

I did hear before of a pickup that had four coils and you could select which were on/off. The front and back coils were split into bass and treble. So that would allow for the split P sound (ish). For the life of me I can't remember who made them but wasn't one of the ones you suggested.

Pretty much what the title suggests. I have a bas which currently has a Kent Armstrong Musicman pickup in it. It runs passive with only a volume and tone pot. I prefer the sound of a P-bass pickup and would like to replace it with one. Question is, can you fit the inners inside the shell of a musicman pickup? Is there any alternative to routing the bass to get a P-bass pickup on there?

I have Googled it but all I could come up with was adding a Musicman pickup to a P-bass or the reverse, not replacing. Any help would be great. Thanks.

Thanks for the feedback guys. So looks like most have R[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]oqsolid and even being a little less padded does the job well. Both companies got back to me with the info I needed but [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]roqsolid were really fast and gave a discount code so I think I'll go with them. Cheers again.[/font][/color]

Not sure if this should be in this section or not. I'm looking to get padded covers for my Head and Cab. The two companies to choose between are http://www.hotcovers.co.uk & [url="http://www.roqsolid.co.uk"]http://www.roqsolid.co.uk[/url] Who has used them, anyone used both, opinions on you experience with them?

Thanks.

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1499934370' post='3334552']
New strings almost invariably sound brighter!
[/quote]

Very true but not lower output. Until I compared it to my other basses I thought the same though my Jazz has had only one rehearsal on the same strings and the P-bass sounds much brighter than that. The much lower output (than even the Jazz and other P-bass) makes me think the same as Lozz196 that it may be a wiring issue or similar electrical problem.

[quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1499838361' post='3333910']
Does the tone control still work? If the tone functions like a second volume control then one of the pickup coils is broken. Rather than making no sound this makes pickups sound bright and harsh with little proper low end.
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I never got a chance to check it before I took it in. I'll report back whatever they find.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1499755644' post='3333283']
1) strings sound different.

2) rough rule of thumb as you wind the pickup away from the strings you get more bass and less mids. Also less volume.
So on a two pickup bass you can balance both volume and tone with pickup height.


Rereading: Obviously you're taking about low output AND low low end... so ignore me and check your wiring like's been said
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Yeah, I was worried that I may have lowered the pickup too low as well but after checking it's not much lower than the others but a huge drop in output. I should have A/B'd it before posting but since it was just a setup I didn't think wiring would have been the issue. That said the foam underneath was replaced so maybe something came lose when that was done? Any way I'll take the bass in tomorrow and report back once they've checked it over. Worst case I guess is a pickup change.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1499723844' post='3333222']
The SPB-2 is famed for having more mids and as such being more aggressive. The Custom Shop Precision pickups are anything but, they have a lovely tone to them - I`ve two US Standards that have these in, warm rounded P-Bass heaven imo. Given that the output of the bass is also a lot quieter than your others I`d reckon on some wiring/connections/solder joints maybe being loose. If I recall correctly this happened to me on an install that a mate did once, all that came out was high end at very low volume - uninstalled the pickup, resoldered and all was fine.
[/quote]

Cool. It's pretty much what I was thinking it might be. I have my amp on 2 for all my other basses but have to turn it up to 4 for this one. That gigging volume on my other basses.

So you think the SPB-2 is aggressive? I find it pretty muddy compared to the rest. Though it is in a bass with a J pickup and wired to a master volume with a pan pot but I mostly use it on just the P pickup.