4000

A fretstone is only about £60-£80 quid, if you feel it's really going to make a difference. As I've said before, if your frets aren't right and you like low action (although there's low and there's LOW) you're probably going to struggle.

[quote name='bh2' timestamp='1386275897' post='2298229'] That's odd... I reckon they're loud and detailed... must have a rogue set. [/quote] No, that's my experience of them too and I've had a few basses with them in and played absolutely loads. I remember Bass Player doing a pickups test once and IIRC they recommended preamps for all the Barts because they were relatively low output.

My point was really that in this particular case it simply didn't need modding, and in the OP 's (or anyone else's) case he might throw that extra money into an altogether worse bass that he likes a lot less. Plus of course modding can be fun. Spending more on a bass is only useful if you prefer the bass, which isn't always the case. As long as the build quality is acceptable I'd be far more concerned about sound and playability.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1385983568' post='2294241'] That said, why throw an indeterminate amount money into modding the Squier when you could sell it and use that money and the mod money towards an altogether better bass? [/quote] A while back I bought a Korean Squier P off ebay for more risky gigs (festivals etc). The build quality isn't that great and the frets need some work but I actually prefer it to several of the boutiques I've had. As soon as I plugged it in it just sounded right and the neck is lovely. It cost me £130; I've spent 10 or 15 times that on basses I've liked a lot less and I prefer it to any Fodera I've ever played.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1385562323' post='2289658'] To my ears, I tend to find Bartolinis a bit "polite" although they are "warm" too. [/quote] I've found the same. All my Seis had them until the last one, which had Kent Armstrongs. The Barts were, it transpires, the only thing I didn't really get on too well with about the basses. The KA's were much more what I wanted and if (when!) I get another Sei built it'll have the KA's. I also agree that they're maybe not the best choice for all-passive. IME they tend to have a very low passive output, but it's possible that may be what you want.

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1386203453' post='2297297'] This has guided every purchase since - if you can't live with it as you find it, don't buy it. [/quote] I've had both experiences. I've had basses bought at a distance that have come to me horribly set up and been transformed once I got them, and ones that I've been unable to correct without major surgery. But then I've had the same with ones in shops; my first Wal and first (and 4th, thinking about it) Status were bought assuming I'd be able to set them up to my liking (low and easy!). Both later - after much struggling - turned out to have neck problems which could have been fixed but at a pretty large cost; I moved them on to people who were quite happy with them as they were. Depends how much you like the rest of the instrument I suppose.

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1386198576' post='2297241'] I have one in natural. Love it. No neck dive whatsoever..... as I tend to hold the neck as I play. If you are looking at Ric, I have it from a very reliable source that [b]'72 or older 4001's are the cream of the crop[/b]. Mine is a '72 and I have to admit it rewrote the book for me on what I had previously experienced Ric-wise (I liked the sound but hated the feel). Mine is lovely to play. [/quote] I'd certainly agree with that. Depending on what happens with my Wal Pro IIE (I'll be moving it on as it isn't working out for ergonomic reasons) I may be after yet another.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1386164297' post='2296587'] Anyone have any advice about these models? [b]I am going to attempt to try as many as possible.[/b] [/quote] That would be the advice I'd give. Advice is good but can lead you in the wrong direct as easily as in the right one. Nobody else knows what will work for you.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1385663351' post='2290918'] Nope cant have, all rics are perfect as 4000 says, all the faults I have found on them that current ric owners have chipped in with through this thread are apparently my subjective opinion as he has never seen them [/quote] Oh dear. Seems like you've been reading my missus' book, "what he said was x, what he meant was y". ;-)

They've been exceptional in my experience. Mica even emailed me with suggestions to help my nerve pain!

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1384784732' post='2280643'] Our band started using a JD inspired logo/sticker. We received a cease and desist. After thinking about it for a while we respectfully decided to tell them to them poke it. The sticker campaign continues and we've not heard anything back since. Of course maybe they found out that we are personally responsible for a large amount of sales. [/quote]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1384716992' post='2279926'] I still disagree, profiles are subjective, poor quality bindings with the finish bleeding into them are faults as is the neck dive every ric I have tried had, you are obviously lucky to have never encountered that problem but enough people on here have for it to be classed as a possible thing to look for if it bothers you. Again the fingerboard is not subjective, it didnt fit the neck from the factory nor is a bridge often cited as difficult or impossible to setup as required, hows that a subjective thing? [/quote] Never had a Ric with bleed. I've seen some on the internet but never in real life, amongst literally hundreds, so it's obviously not [i]that [/i]common, although it is out there. As are shocking Fender necks that don't adjust, of which I've seen loads. Neck-dive, is as I suggested, entirely subjective. I learnt to play on one so to me it sits in exactly the right place, which a Stingray (or Fender) doesn't. Again, if I've never experienced what I consider neck-dive in hundreds of basses then we're obviously looking at things rather differently and as others are agreeing it's not just me. Never seen the fingerboard issue either, in fact your mention is the only time I've ever heard of it. Again, not common. The bridge thing is generally familiarity (same with pretty much everything else about the bass). I remember being lent an early EB Ray once and it took me ages to set up, far longer than any of my Rics. Why? Because I wasn't familar with it. But I've been setting up multiple Rics for years. To be honest I've had more of an issue recently setting up my Squire P.

[quote name='matski' timestamp='1384860011' post='2281461'] PS: this is the only Ric I've owned in 30 years of playing, so I'm not some blinkered, drooling Rickenbacker fanboy either. [/quote] I know I come across like that but in reality I play every bass I can get my hands on (just in case), have owned something like 40 basses from Westone and Hohner through Fender, Alembic, Sei, Status, Warwick, Wal and Jaydee over a period of well over 30 years and generally (except when irked ) have something positive to say about most basses. I just always end up coming back to Rickenbacker; they're not perfect (nothing is), but everything else ultimately doesn't seem to do quite what I want it to, and the things that are negatives to many generally aren't to me. My only real issues are that the old truss rods can be tricky if you don't know what you're doing and have quite often been compromised by someone who obviously didn't, and the fact that you sometimes struggle for intonation travel on some of the older basses with low action (oh, and I wish that they'd retained the aluminium bridge rather than replacing it with the zinc one). Beyond a few cosmetic issues such as liking checkered binding and crushed pearl inlays, that's pretty much it. So many times I've been playing another bass on stage and wished I one of my Rics in my hands.

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1384643684' post='2279179'] we often get people who want the action on a standard bass raised because they prefer it higher. Usually pick players [/quote] This always makes me smile. I play mostly with a pick and I play extremely lightly and prefer an action which Chris May has described as "a guitar action". Probably because in reality I play more like a guitarist. ;-) I remember playing your Zon and the buckeye Fodera at Bass Day and I struggled with both as they were way higher than I'm used to. Liked the Zon though, as we discussed. Molan's completely right; when I took my Alembic to the Gallery to sell it had the best setup I'd ever come across. When I went back to pick it up temperature and humidity changes had played havoc with it.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1384632750' post='2279030'] Like lots of things we get to know more about we learn that not all things are the same for each model, which stingray profile didnt you like for example, the early deep c shape or the early flat D shape, the ebmm clubby shaped one or the jazz width Slo special for example [/quote] You do realise that Ric necks (and even body sizes/shapes) vary from year to year and even month to month? And that not all Rics are bound (4000, S-types, C-series, CS, V63, 4004)? And that most of the "issues" you mention are addressed in the 4004 (which ironically I found less comfortable)? Rhetorical question BTW. ;-)

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1384632750' post='2279030'] Id say you are in a massive minority with finding a sharp edged bass the only comfortable bass, I know you had told me about it before but in reality virtually everyone on bass chat will find at least a rounded slab like my classicray more comfortable, even I prefer the full contours of my other stingrays bodies. Like lots of things we get to know more about we learn that not all things are the same for each model, which stingray profile didnt you like for example, the early deep c shape or the early flat D shape, the ebmm clubby shaped one or the jazz width Slo special for example [/quote] Every Ray I've tried (dozens, from originals through the gamut of EBs to Classics) has had a neck I haven't really got on with. Same as all the many varied Jazzes, all of which I've found horrible. Although to clarify the only Ric necks I really love belong to basses from '72 and earlier. FWIW I realise I'm in the minority finding a bound instrument more comfortable but it's still a perfectly valid perspective to point out. Why are people so quick to point out the "failings" of Rics and so quick to dismiss a perfectly valid counter-argument?

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1384632948' post='2279033'] My list is a list of actual faults i have had other than the pickup cover position which is not a fault as such but does put off many players even if its only enough to remove it rather than not buy one, your list is totally subjective to your personal needs which I respect but dont find as a comparison to my gripes with the rics I have tried to love. [/quote] So your issue with neck dive (obviously subjective given I've never experienced it), body shape/contouring, binding etc are actual faults? I think not. The fingerboard issue is a fault but neck/fingerboard issues are hardly unique to Rics are they? My first Wal (lauded for their build quality) hadn't had the fingerboard levelled properly. Even the "big, clumsy bridge" is a matter of opinion, and it's not like Rays have never had those is it? ;-)

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1384595777' post='2278447'] I have lusted over many a Ric, tried almost everyone I have seen in the shops, borrowed one and gigged it with a view to buying it as it was a good year and colour combination and at a bargain price, I had the cash to spare yet still gave it back! My biased findings so far.... 1- Neck dive. 2- Nastycheap feel to the machine head tuners operation. 3- Fingerboard not following the main neck along its length properly as if it has shunk or something. 4- Body edges that you can shave with. 5- Poorly finished bindings compared to a Gibson Les Paul. 6- Pickup cover in the way, its right where I want to play especially with a pick (same goes for a Jazz with its covers on). 7- Remove cover and you are left with a crude metal finger grater. 8- Big clumsy bridge often swapped for something more accuratley adjustable. 9- Looks awesome and almost worth buying especially if you get offered a 70's one in fireglo red on the cheap, [i]almost.[/i] [/quote] To answer your points, obviously these are things that you feel you've experienced, but most of them are completely subjective. I've had 13 or 14 Rics and have played or used literally hundreds over 33 years: 1) Never played one that I considered to neck dive. They sit exactly where I want a bass to sit. 2) The only tuner issues I've experienced have been on some of the old flat/wavy grovers which they haven't used for years. 3) Never, ever experienced that. I once bought a '73 via mail order where the fingerboard had separated but the bass had obviously been seriously water damaged and went straight back (thanks Guitar Village, not....). 4)Never had a problem with the body edges, unlike the contouring on a Jazz, Stingray or Status which I find excruciating. 5) Never had an issue with the binding; ditto Les Pauls, which are my favourite guitars. I find Strats uncomfortable in almost every way. 6) Learnt to play with the pickup cover in place so it's never been an issue. Neither of my '72s came with covers but I'm on the lookout for some (they're slightly different dimensions than the new ones). 7)Never had the slightest issue with the surround for finger style. 8) Bridge is marmite, I'll give you that. ;-) 9)I'll agree they look awesome, although my favourite finish is Azureglo. ;-) If I did a similar list for a Stingray, I'd say: 1) Horribly uncomfortable forearm contouring. 2)Generally uncomfortably heavy, although there are exceptions. 3) Sit in the wrong place and at the wrong angle for me. 4)Don't like the neck profiles. 5)String spacing far too wide Etc etc. If I did a similar list for Fenders, I've only owned one that hasn't had major neck issues, and that would just be the start....

Most of them. Although it will always vary according to what bass they're on. Have never liked Elites, Fender or Labellas.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1384617988' post='2278807'] The old knock what the other person has comeback, useful. [/quote] Well I thought I'd try what others often do for a change. Just to see what it was like. In all seriousness though, I was making a point. I've yet to play a Stingray I like. However that doesn't mean I think there's anything wrong with them; they're just not for me, but they're still excellent basses. I really like what they sound like in the hands of others, have considered buying one often, but whenever I play one I don't like it. So often I read that Rics are 'crap' for whatever reason and all it means is they don't suit, which some people seem to fail to understand.

[quote name='simon1964' timestamp='1384619228' post='2278824'] To put some context and balance to all of that, the Hall family actually acquired Rickenbacker in 1953, way before Japenese companies started copying Rickenbackers. I remain in the apparent minority who cannot see any problem with a company protecting its own design rights. [/quote] +1.

I'll also add that having played pretty much every type of bass in this thread at some point I'd choose the Pedulla every time.

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1375782058' post='2165409'] For me the it's between the SX and the 62 jazz. [/quote] Ditto. Although for me the Stingray has easily the best slap sound; I hate the Jazz slap sound which to me just sounds brittle and clacky. One thing though; if you forced me to use a Jazz (at gunpoint!) I'd always play it with both pickups on so that was something lost in the test for me. I thought the Fodera, Sadowsky and 70s Js sounded exactly how I don't want a bass to sound. To be honest though the main thing this test showed me is that if I have to use a Fender it'd always be a Precision! I really don't like what Jazz basses sound like at all, except when JPJ, Gary Thain, Lenny Kravitz (or his various bassists) use them.