4000

Drat and double drat. Foiled again!

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1343699373' post='1753923'] Well here's a turnip for the books. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the very first bass I ever played and learned a tune on was my step-dad's Ric over 25 years ago. He and my mum split up a year or two later and I probably only ever bumped into him 5 or 6 times over the years after that. Well, we recently got back in touch again through fb and.... Here is the bass in question... a 4001. It will be 40 years old this Sept. Cost him £259 back in '72. It's completely original and all still going strong. He's taking it 'round to mine this weekend coz he wants me to have a look at it as the E string can sometimes pop out of the nut. The last guy to have a look at the nut was a guy in a repair shop in London back in '72... a bloke by the name of Dan Armstrong. Oh aye, and the other bit of news about it is, he confided in me tonight that he's decided to leave it to me in his will.... I had to tell someone. [/quote] Tell you what Rich, I'll give him £300 for it now which he can then pass straight on to you; it'll save everyone a lot of bother.(smilies - why can't I get smilies at work?) Ah,'72s.......*sigh*

Like every other make out there, they vary quite a bit. Mine are both about 8.5lbs or so; maybe just under 9 at a push. I've never had or played one over 10 pounds, and on average they're about 9 (sometimes as low as 8), so not desperately heavy.

Maybe how hard you fret or play? I barely fret at all and play very lightly. I love Rotos. I keep trying other things but nothing else seems to have the punch. And yes, I too love the rough feel.

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1343392479' post='1750046'] 'Nard used flats, it would be difficult to get that sound with roundwounds. Lots if definition there though, notwithstanding his expertise in playing. [/quote] I used rounds on the aforementioned passive OLP, but that had no inherent treble to speak of.

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1343391396' post='1750018'] For a minute there Shaun you were off my xmas card list but thankfully you redeemed yourself in the end. Although I find what you said odd coming from a guy who favours as prominent and distinct a tone as a Ric. [/quote] Off your list? Where are my last 4 then? Well the thing is with the Rics, I can vary the dynamics far more with my playing. Comparatively speaking, the MMs are just kind of on/off in my hands. I have the same problem with Status, and with many (but not all) other actives. The frequency separation thing is a weird one. I can get a Ric to sit in a track really well, but its frequency spread just seems completely different. The MMs always sounded like they weren't part of what everyone else was playing. The rest of the band thought so too. This is in my hands though, the man who can make any Jazz in the world sound like something George Formby would play. I actually love the MM sound in (most) other hands. Strangely, although I've used a couple in anger, it's one of the only well-known basses I've never owned. I keep thinking I'd love a Classic (I don't get on very well with forearm contours), but for that money I'd just end up putting it to something more exotic.

For me there seem to be two "typical" Ray sounds (although they'll do lots of other things); the RATM-type sound (clicky, zingy, scooped - to my ears) and the Bernard Edwards sound, which is kind of the opposite. I've used two in various bands and have never been able to get a sound I was happy with. They just seemed kind of isolated from the music I was playing whatever I did with them, which isn't what I'm after, and I found them strangely undynamic to play, although one of them is a friend's bass and it sounds great in his hands & in his band. On the other hand I briefly had a passive OLP that really nailed the Bernard sound, far better than the 2x Rays, strangely enough. I'd still like one though if I could find one that worked, although IME the Streamer Pro M seems to work better for me.

Loz, I once bought a UL expecting it to be lightweight and put my back out carrying it to the train! Although on paper it's half the weight of my ABM500, in practice it didn't feel much different. Although I did have a footswitch in the bag too... What really surprised me that when put up gainst the ABM, although it sounded slightly more compressed / polished, it didn't have anything like the presence or punch through the same cab.

Cheers guys, haven't made my way round to this thread in awhile! Everything still up in the air at the moment....

This really ages me, because to me his most iconic bass is his original one, from the Hawkwind through Ace of Spades period. That's the bass I'd have if I could, whatever state of disrepair it's now in.

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1343044752' post='1744139'] Where do we stand on the binding debate with this one? [/quote] It blew off when he played the first chord.

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1343043034' post='1744093'] Not my pic, but it is the same one. Not pink, but not one which I've seen him use either. [/quote] A Fireglo V63? No, I've never seen him use it either. I guess it could be a "stand here and have your picture taken with it" job (most likely), or maybe he did actually own it for a while but never really used it much (if at all). Nice info, ta. I used to have a '98 V63; nice bass. Kind of regret getting rid of that one.

[quote name='Stag' timestamp='1343000500' post='1743766'] Cliff himself said it was a Ric, and so did his mum or dad... [/quote] Well if that's the case I'm not going to argue with that...

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1342989940' post='1743604'] You could well be right, I thought it was another forum otherwise I wouldn't have repeated myself. IIRC there's a pink Rick in Madrid HRC attributed to Lemmy which I thought strange. I'll see if I can find a pic, I may be remembering the colour wrongly. Is Lemmy so corporate that he'd do a "signer"?? . There are some 80's copies of Music UK on Ebay just now, unfortunately not that one. I used to like that mag. [/quote] I'd be interested to see that Ric. To be honest I think he's had quite a few of them; every time I think I've seen them all someone trots out a picture of a different one. Always nice to see another though. Given his well-documented hatred of the colour pink I find it odd he'd put his name to one, although I suppose that'd be one reason for getting rid! Yeah, I thought that was a great mag too. I'll have to dig out my copy of that, it can't be far away. I think that was the first (relatively) in-depth interview with him I ever read. I think they also reviewed a couple of Rics in the same mag (bass & guitar), although that could be another issue.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1342989374' post='1743596'] I'm pretty much going just from the photos, and the spotting fakers site, and the pics that are official Ricks, as per the ones above, the other examples in random personal photos could just as well be fakes, I have no way of verifying, some that come up in a google image search have binding all the way round, which is apparently definitely fake. The 'evidence' appears to just be people referring to it as a Rick, in the same way anything that shape is. Obviously I do have a fair few doubts about the usefulness of the faker spotting site since the guy doesn't know the difference between 'right' and 'write', but I lack a better authority on the subject. So working jsut from direct sources, the pics, and official Rick photos. I don't assume a Rick is RIC made any more than I assume anything P bass shaped is Fender made. [/quote] I think the thing is, as you've pointed out elsewhere, Ricks are very inconsistent; features / dimensions could vary from one month to the next, particularly in the 60s and early to mid 70's. My old March '73 4000 had a very slim neck, but I once played a March '73 4001 that had one of the biggest necks I've ever played on anything. As I said before, the upper bouts on my Aug '72 are actually smaller than the ones on my Feb. With copies, Rics are generally much harder to copy well than Fenders, even taking into account the above detail inconsistencies, and there are far less about relative to the real thing. If it looks accurate to an experienced eye it's more likely to be real than not. If in doubt, there's always Jon!

Absolutely bob on Stu, although never read about the sanding bit. I think we discussed this before - it must be in another interview because it's not in that one; I've got it around here somewhere and was reading it a while back (unless they did two). I know Chris Squire attributes his unique tone to his bass being sanded smaller but I think we discussed that too and IIRC you said you wouldn't have know about Squire. Other than that Lem's original was "that horrible salmon pink colour" when he got it, so he sanded it off and played it like that, unsealed. He's also said the same elsewhere with a consistent story (I've also spoken to him too on a couple of occasions, FWIW). Lem was my original bass hero when I started, aged 17, in 1980. The main reasons he likes Rics are the necks and the look. He says he never liked the old pickups which is why he changed them, but he really likes the newer humbuckers. Apparently he wired his original bass wrong and the output was really low (Peter Cook's worked on it at one point many years ago which is where I got the info) which may also have contributed to the tone. I always liked the sound of his original best. When I used to go and see them in the early '80s he used to swap basses quite a bit and that always had the best sound to me.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1342963420' post='1743181'] I've always considered binding that passes under the bridge to be one of the main tells of a copy, my CMI looks exactly like that, due to the narrower through neck piece, which is a fairly major construction departure. Joey's bass notes says same, although I don't know how authoratitive that is, since it seems more about crying trademark infringement than actual useful tells. [/quote] If the info in the various posts above isn't enough for you (especially Green Alsatian's), I suggest you go back and look at loads of pics of loads of genuine Rics. Most of mine have had different sized areas of gap/binding; on my Azure the binding goes further under the bridge than on my Fireglo, leaving a narrower gap. In fact on my Fireglo it's slightly offset. I still don't quite understand why you appear to have decided it's definitely a faker when the evidence (including that from people close to source) tends to suggest it probably isn't. In Hook's case, he has stated outright his was a Hondo (and it's bloody obvious from the pictures). Foxten has stated his original was an Ibanez, again obvious from pics. At no point that I'm aware did Burton or anyone close to him say his was a faker. Which of course doesn't prove anything either way, but is more likely to suggest it's genuine than fake. FWIW, famous Ric players that didn't resort to fakers: Squire (appears to have owned one but not aware he used it for anything known, and I have talked to him; mainly used his RM, the 21 fret 4001, the 8 string and a fretless or other basses entirely) Rutherford Glover Lee McCartney Hughes / Butler (same bass) Camp D'Amour etc.... FWIW I don't think it matters if someone did use one and some of the copies are very good (some less so - the Hondos were positively horrible), but misinformation I object to.

[quote name='Green Alsatian' timestamp='1342885195' post='1742389'] Cliff played a Rick - the mudbucker was a modification that he did to it shortly after joining Metallica, along with replacing the bridge pickup with a Jazz bass single coil (a DiMarzio, I read) and putting a Seymour Duncan strat pickup in the bridge, where the foam mute once was. Here's him playing it pre-modification in his old band Agents of Misfortune (with Jim Martin on guitar) and with Trauma, the band he was in before joining Metallica [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-QOujfgf8s[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpURVo6u-F8[/media] Lemmy went from a Hopf bass in Hawkwind to a Rick which he later (in the mid 70s) which he modified with a chrome Gibson Thunderbird pickup in the neck position (his heavily-modified 'Rickenbastard'). Here it is before the fingerboard was replaced with the maple/stars: Bruce Foxton (The Jam) moved from his Ibanez copy (with a P-Bass style pickup cover) to a Rick (or rather, Ricks - he had quite a few!) around the time of In The City (the first album) coming out, probably bought them with his advance. [/quote] This. Burton's was actually a Ric that was modified (same with Joey DeMaio). I've seen interviews with people who have actual experience of the bass that confirm it. I'd rather take their word for it than speculation. I think you need to really study the minute differences between Ricks even months apart to build a bigger picture. My 2 x'72's, one Feb, one August, have different shape headstocks and different sized bodies, but they're both 100% genuine. BTW, a mudbucker used to be one of Dawk's favourite Ric mods..... Of the bulk of Lemmy's main basses, the only questionable ones are the maple-board one (which even he says is a Rick; ask him) - as a maple board is a mod I've considered many times it doesn't prove anything either way - and the later one that he had done to kind of resemble his signatures, but maple-topped. Actually the one above was his original 4000, his first Rick, in which he put a T/Bird pickup. The bass with the star inlays was bound; this one wasn't (last time I saw it it was with Rickenbacker ready to be restored; there's a vid on Youtube). Of course it could be that it's since been done and I haven't yet seen the result. Foxton used an Ibanez prior to getting the real thing (well-documented in interviews) although he did comment that he didn't really notice any difference. Hook used a Hondo II which he described as "crap" IIRC. I don't quite understand why people feel the need to put misinformation out there.

[quote name='cloudburst' timestamp='1342807525' post='1741397'] Not a set of keys I'd be particularly charmed to pick out of the fruit bowl. It has to be asked - what kind of person takes the RISK of remaining at a swingers party once Jimmy Krankie arrives??? CB [/quote] One in need of medication.

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1342798707' post='1741200'] That's just it. Horses for courses. To me Warwicks look like perfectly good basses but with a dildo for an upper horn. Hey fine when your comfortable with your own sexuality like. [/quote] Seriously though, this is it. I don't understand lots of things; the obsession with b*llocks like TOWIE, why some people think Beyonce makes good records, the Crankies, the Chuckle Brothers, why some people like gherkins, Mick Hucknells "singing" (I use the term loosely), why nobody else thinks Angelina Jolie has horrible arms, ad infinitum. It's just down to personal taste. To use my age old analogy, just because my shoes feel comfy to me doesn't mean they'll fit you.

[quote name='geofio' timestamp='1342704358' post='1739613'] i played the rics through top of the line ampeg amp and 8x10 ampeg cabinet, a classic combination for the ric. i have tried adjusting individual poles on the pickups , it does not make any difference to the sound of the E string apart from making it a bit louder, the point is the E does not sound right !!! as i said there will be good ones out there thankfully, i am just concerned as a ric user, and i am more concerned for guys who are about to buy one and maybe who have never played a ric and think that the sound the new ones make is a normal rickenbacker sound, the whole experience is disappointing when you like a certain brand of bass. [/quote] I expected you'd likely have used a decent setup. TBH, if that's the case it's sad to hear and I don't know what the answer is. I understand your point about newbies; I always thought that about Warwicks, which in most shops are so horrendously set up (or not set up!) that it could put people off for life. I've had a few Warwicks so know how nice they can be, but that first impression needs to be a good one.