4000

[quote name='bassman2790' post='1335900' date='Aug 10 2011, 11:23 PM']Toying with the idea of putting some flats on my Ric. Anyone tried it or am I likely to be burned at the stake for suggesting it?[/quote] Ric with flats? Try Sergeant Pepper.

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1233024' date='May 16 2011, 01:50 PM']Return of the "Ashdown is / are shyte" thing: * Wooly, dull, no top end, EQ doesn't do anything, no sparkle, can't handle low B, harmoniser tracking sucks, totally crap compared to my rig costing 3-5 times as much. etc., etc. * They all fall apart, all the bits drop off, too heavy to lift, my lightweight cab-doodah really etc., etc. * They all catch fire, the speakers randomly detonate, the horn shoots out and blinds you etc., etc. * The UK-made ones are OK, lovely guys at the factory, bend over backwards to help you, shame about the Chinese QC etc., etc. * Di-dah di-dah di-dah (cont. p.94)[/quote]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1331131' date='Aug 7 2011, 05:56 PM']But even then he sounded different on each bass. His Wal didn't sound like his Alembic, which didn't sound like his Spector, which didn't sound like his Musicman, which didn't sound like his Modulus! Similarly, looking back over the basses I've had, my Kubicki didn't sound like my ACG, which didn't sound like my Spector, which didn't sound like my Warwick, which didn't sound like my Status (any of them!), which didn't sound like my Alembic etc etc. Though if you heard me playing it you'd know it was me every time. In that way, I think people can get confused with the sound of the music/playing and the sound of the actual instrument.[/quote] +1.

[quote name='risingson' post='1331112' date='Aug 7 2011, 05:42 PM']One man's meat is another man's poison etc.[/quote] This. +1000. Thank you. There is no fixed, absolute definition of "good" tone. Therefore the only argument for or against is a subjective one. However awful you may think someone's tone is, there will be someone out there who would kill for it. Of course the only real issue is that you (or your employer if that's how you work) like the tone you have. And of course tone is also dependent on context. I love Chris Squire's tone but wouldn't want to hear it on a Chic track (another of my favourites BTW). However someone, somewhere might prefer it....and they're perfectly entitled to.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1331028' date='Aug 7 2011, 04:14 PM']The thing I find funny with all the tone freaks on here is it's as if there is one tone to be found that should be used on every record there after.[/quote] Some people will do this to an extent, others will approach each track differently. One thing that seems obvious is that there would be a lot of disagreement amongst us about what would be the right tone for a particular track.

[quote name='JTUK' post='1330858' date='Aug 7 2011, 12:39 PM']well, kinda...Clark got his down to be ok...but sometimes the other guys stank. I'm talking Entwhistle, McVie, especially. Youtube will be full of sh*te sounds from those guys and I admit I'd never go and watch them, but how wrong can a recorded sound that you'd have release control over be from the live rig..?? And I'll post a few examples that noone could argue was good...no matter how much a fan of them, you'd be. Sorry, no other way to say that.[/quote] You seem to be forgetting our previous discussion of this. I love McVie's Alembic sound. Entwistle's Alembic sound is up there with Chris Squire's for my favourite bass tone ever. Just because you think it sounds crap doesn't mean I should. For one thing, I[i] like [/i]distorted bass. What part of "subjective" aren't you getting? FWIW, some of my favourite bass tones: Chris Squire Lemmy Early Jon Camp Glenn Hughes on Made in Europe John McVie (Alembic) Early JJ Burnel Matt Garrison Stanley Clarke Hadrien Feraud (solo sound) Leigh Gorman (Bow Wow Wow) Jah Wobble Mark King (Alembic) I'm guessing at least some of those won't be to your taste....which is fine by me

In his own words (from a Guitar Player interview by Bill Milkowski, Aug 1984), when asked why he likes the old Fenders so much: "the old Fenders really have a punch, and not just a treble punch either. More like clear low mids; plus, they're real quick. You can play that fretless real fast. And I feel real comfortable with these. I've had lots of people make basses for me, and I own different sorts of them. I've probably owned over a hundred in my life, but none of them sound like these old ones." He then goes on to say " One of the main reasons I use these same old basses is because I've worked so hard and so long on the road - forever - that to get another new instrument at this point, I really feel like I would have to learn how to play it from scratch. I mean, I know everything about these basses of mine, every bit of chicken grease and drop of sweat that's ever been on them".

I thought he meant Wotten R Sohl, the famous blue grass picker.

[quote name='JTUK' post='1329557' date='Aug 6 2011, 07:50 AM']Got to agree. Stanley and Wotten are fantastic players but tone wasn't their forte. MM has always had pretty much the same sound, so much so that he redefined the Jazz/sadowksy model, prety much. Clark had his Almebic tone at a time when the amp chain probably didn't cope as well with it. Other Alembic at that time guys really struggled with this live as well, IMO. But Wotten is ALL technique..and sound/tone is the least impressive part of it all. IMO.[/quote] I love Stanley's tone. One of my favourite tones ever. I love the tone of pretty much all the "Other Alembic" guys too. I'll say it again; GOOD TONE IS COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE.

I've suffered with this ever since getting my Beyer DT100s and then going to a digital recording setup (Ableton). Unfortunately I got the 16 ohm Beyers so struggle for volume (realised too late to take them back). I've never, ever suffered with pitch issues before. Was thinking of changing the 'phones for something else; I know I can get an outboard amp but not sure it's worth it.

[quote name='jazzyvee' post='1328580' date='Aug 5 2011, 12:22 PM']Marcus Miller says Hey Delano, I do think there's a point where you are paying for exotic materials that don't really improve the sound yes. Most of the high end basses are created to enable the bass to sound more clearly like an extended range guitar. If that's not your goal, you can save a lot of money by buying an old school bass. M[/quote] This is very true IMO, which is where the issues between those trying to sound like one or the other often arise as they often can't appreciate the other's perspective. As in my post above, different people want different things and as BRX said they should find what works for them whilst appreciating that others may think/feel differently. As I believe I've said before, if you have size 9 feet you don't want size 8 shoes and vice versa.

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1327680' date='Aug 4 2011, 07:41 PM']Marcus Miller has played a jazz bass as his main bass for years...reason to suspect he doesn't have the highest standards of tone...confirmed when you listen to him! Victor Wooten on the other hand, with his brace of Fodera basses has always sounded amazing. Mind you, Marcus has played enough boutique basses over the years to know what he likes and what he doesn't like. That said, it doesn't take much effort to get a better tone than he has so I suppose it's a case of horses for courses.[/quote] Horses for courses indeed. "Better" tone is entirely subjective. I don't like Marcus's tone either (in fact I'm not a fan at all) but if he likes it it's the right tone for him. FWIW I don't like Victor's tone either. They're about neck and neck in terms of tones I don't like. Are they bad tones? No. They're just not to my taste. I suspect I wouldn't like your tone much from various things you've posted and you probably wouldn't like mine either. So what? I'm me and you're you, and we're not aiming for the same thing. I don't like Mercs, BMWs or Ferraris but that doesn't mean they're crap cars, it just means I don't like 'em.

Hmm, I really need to try a Streamline.....

I've had quite a bit of expensive, boutique kit, but much of it (probably most if I'm honest) hasn't worked as well live as some of the more meat-and-potatoes stuff in the context it's been used in. So I've always gravitated to what works best for me in the particular situation. I suspect many others do the same. Having said that, I've never had a bass I wouldn't gig; that'd be like having a pint glass you never drank from.

[quote name='Stacker' post='1323257' date='Aug 1 2011, 05:04 PM']I reckon 'Roundabout' has an awful lot to do with the toaster. But I must admit that fella is getting close to it.[/quote] A lot of Squire's stuff does. Very underrated, the use of the toaster!

[quote name='gary mac' post='1322738' date='Aug 1 2011, 07:56 AM']Chris Squire sounds like Chris Squire whether playing a ric or a fender jazz. I'm sure there was a clip on here a while back showing him playing a jazz.[/quote] Chris does sound like Chris regardless of what he plays, but without wishing to go back to another recent thread, he doesn't get the same sound on each instrument. His Jazz sounds different to his Ric, as do the Tobiases, the Mouradian etc etc etc. I know some don't perceive this but I certainly do. I've seen him live several times and every time he pulls out a different bass it sounds noticeably different, although still recogniseably like Chris Squire.

Good news! Stick with it. It took me ages to sort the eq out on my old Trace but when I did it was great. So good that a mate eventually bought the amp off me on the strength of it and used it with exactly the same settings!

Haven't spoken to Carl but Lawrence is a gent of the highest order. Lovely, lovely man!

[quote name='hairyhaw' post='1322207' date='Jul 31 2011, 03:47 PM']Yeah, I've read most of those threads on the RRF. I still lurk there from time to time but the quite unbelievable level of sycophancy put me off posting. Still 'twas a good source of info for a lot of stuff like the time CS tripped and broke the headstock off the RM and the botched repair job after. Still, its good hearing the stuff you're quoting - that's the first new stuff I've read about his gear set up in a good while. Yeah, agreed. I came off stage after a gig with my old originals band one night and an older guy that had been watching came up and went "good gig - you quite like Chris Squire don't you?". Totally rumbled. I'd played it with my '05 4003, a Korg AX1B, and an Ashdown Mag300 410T. Apart from the bass, about as far from Squire's gear as you could get. Don't think it's so much an action thing either - mine isn't the lowest and you could drive a bus through CS's.[/quote] If you look at Chris's action then and Chris's action now it seems to have gone up a bit. FWIW, apparently the neck on his bass is incredibly thin, far thinner than most Rics from any era. I think when trying to approximate someone's sound (assuming you want to) you've got to start with what you sound like and work from there. Sometimes that means using similar gear, sometimes it doesn't.

Just been looking in my "From the Pages of Guitar Player magazine - Bass Heroes" book and Chris (interviewed in '73) gives a really good breakdown of his gear, from the AC30 head and cabs he used in the Syn to the Sunns. He says his settings on the Sunn were "6 on the volume knob, 4 on the low frequency control, 3 on the high frequency, 5 on the mid frequency and 10 on the treble". He also says he has the volume and tone on his treble pickup wide open and the volume on the neck pickup is near full and the tone knob sits at 4 (not sure how he works that out as there are no numbers on his controls and no detents either!). The Ric Resource Forum has a whole section devoted to Chris but I seldom get round to reading it. Getting back to Chris's sound, obviously a lot of that is him, some of it is the stereo etc, but bear in mind the old RM1999s (indeed older Rics per se) sound somewhat different than newer Rics. For a start there's the horseshoe pickup, discontinued around '69 (and the reissues aren't the same at all), then there's the 1/2" position toaster neck pickup, different pot values etc and slightly different construction. But with the right strings, amps, eq etc and approach, you should be able to approximate it.

[quote name='hairyhaw' post='1322108' date='Jul 31 2011, 01:03 PM']It wouldn't surprise me. CS used guitar amps himself up to the mid seventies. He was using Fender stuff around the time of The Yes Album and Sunn Coliseum guitar heads and cabs up to about '76 I think. He's been using Marshall bass stuff in the last twenty years or so and that took quite a lot of the bite out of his tone IMO. And what the feck are you guys doing up at half six on a Sunday morning?![/quote] Actually Chris originally used his 60s Marshall (which he says has more treble than the typical lead amps, never mind the bass ones), then went to Fenders (Dual Showmans I believe), then Sunn Colliseum guitar heads (in preference to the bass ones which he didn't like) and then eventually found his way round to Ampeg, which he's been using for ages. His Marshall is still in there - possibly always has been and he is in stereo after all - but it's been Ampeg for ages now. I personally think the change to Ampeg coincided with the perceived lack of bite; if you watch the very early footage of him using his Marshall stack it's extremely in-your-face, probably the most it ever was. I know a bloke who could probably pinpoint [i]exactly[/i] when he changed from what to what but I'll leave that to him. EDIT: just found this on the net - not sure about the purple bit though, it doesn't look it on pics I've seen. "It’s a late 60’s purple 100 watt Super Bass Head. Chris says that it has more high end that most of the Marshall guitar heads. He amp setting were Treble:10, Middle:6, Bass:4, Presence:10, Volume:4".

[quote name='merello' post='1321916' date='Jul 31 2011, 06:23 AM']Did early Stranglers not feature JJ on Hiwatt guitar cabs as they could not afford bass ones?[/quote] Yep. I've used guitar rigs in the past myself and got very good results.

[quote name='xgsjx' post='1321908' date='Jul 31 2011, 02:21 AM']Didn't Macca use a Hofner?[/quote] Mostly Ric on Revolver, all Ric on Sgt Pepper And MMT....

[quote name='xgsjx' post='1321889' date='Jul 31 2011, 01:34 AM']Do Rics usually lack any actual "bass" to their sound, or is it just that video? Nice looking basses though.[/quote] As with any other bass, it depends how you eq it and what you're playing it through. Early JJ Burnel doesn't have a lot of "bass" but I don't think many people would suggest a Precision inherently lacks low end. Have you ever heard the Beatles?

The secret is the interaction between a Ric (which is certainly a factor in the equation) and the rig, as well as (obviously) the player. I've found a lot of more modern rigs just don't do it unless you're using effects. Avoid tweeters. Also eq plays a big part; a far bigger part than most realise. I eq heavily. Of course a degree of distortion helps, but my best Ric tone has been through early Trace amps/cabs so it's not always the be all and end all; the right amount of bark from the amp/cab should suffice. I see you're using Trace so I'd use the pre-shape (mid-cut)and eq from there. Use your ears! Low action helps unless you play hard (like Geddy & Lem), as do the right strings (I use Rotos because they're more aggressive, although some hate them).