Oscar South

[quote name='BassManKev' post='253361' date='Aug 2 2008, 04:09 PM']transfer better between instruments??[/quote] I picked guitar and bass stomp boxes that sound great on guitar or bass, and the stuff I have like compressors, reverbs, delays etc. can be transfered to anything. A multi effects unit will generally sound a bit rubbish on anything other than what its designed to be used for. [quote name='escholl' post='253365' date='Aug 2 2008, 04:15 PM']safer? do many people get injured by multieffects? i suppose if a whole rack fell on you....[/quote] Read the rest of my post, you're less likely to hit a wrong button and screw everything up mid set/mid song with single effects than with a multi effect.

I can play guitar, bass (including upright), piano and mandolin to a good performance standard, and by october when I go back to uni I'll be able to say the same for drums and vocals (only done those for fun before now so they need polishing up). I use mainly guitar or non specific pedals on my pedal board so that I can use it for all my instruments. I don't use effects as compositionally as some people, one hi-gain sound, one light distortion, one delay w/ tap tempo (any decent stomp delay has this) and a few 'always on' type effects, maybe a reverb and I want them all instantly available at a button hit with no hassle. I don't use them excessively and I've never found myself wanting or needing to tweak the settings mid set and I have the settings I usually use written down. I could get this to some degree from the PodXT but it sounded one quarter as good and there was too much messing with settings, the buttons were too close together, if you hit 2 buttons at the same time it had no effect, its easy to hit a wrong button and screw everything up. Stomp boxes are simpler, safer, better sounding, transfer better between instruments and MORE FUN.

I'm still not sure what point you're arguing, are you claiming that multi effects sound better than single effects units, or just that they're better overall for other factors? (convenience, cost etc.) If its about sound then this discussion can't really go much further unless you post why multi-effects sound better than single stomp units, with some kind of evidence or reasoning. If its about overall factors, then I agree that in this case its completely subjective. I will hold my ground on the fact that stomp boxes sound better though, for the reasons I've posted above and also because there is a relatively limited range of multi effects units and a practically infinite number of stomp boxes. To claim that multi effects sounds better than ALL of them is absurd, and unless you can make that claim then its a lost argument. In fact, I'd say that the majority of decent quality single effects sound far better than the majority of multi effects.

[quote name='BassManKev' post='253187' date='Aug 2 2008, 10:39 AM']i have to ask what multi effect took you 30 mins to set up one effect??[/quote] PodXT and Zoom B2.1, I don't mean just messing with multi effect settings though, it includes playing with bass dials, messing with EQ and amp settings etc. The time it took to get a passable sound out of my equipment as a whole, rather than just from the unit. Of course this meant that I ended up having to spend 5-10 mins adjusting stuff every time I used a different amp setup (which was frequently, as I have to use university stuff for course things, and they have different amps in different practice rooms). [quote name='BassManKev' post='253182' date='Aug 2 2008, 10:30 AM']the balls being red and blue are fact, the sound quality of something in all cases is opinion[/quote] Maybe less so, the majority of people would agree that one was red and one was blue, but occasionally you might get a colour blind person come along and claim that both are grey, or that one was grey and one was blue. Its the same kind of thing here, ask the vast majority of people if soundwise they'd prefer a multi effects unit or some well picked stomp boxes, most people choose multi effects over single units for reasons other than sound quality. I'm not using the 'colour blind' example as an insult to say you're 'tone blind' or anything btw, as I think it might appear like that. I'm just using it in the example to show how a seemingly objective argument can also be subjective, yet still fact.

I'm not inclined to disagree with you, but I've used the other brands efforts too and none of them fared significantly better. It was always a case of tweaking the sound until it was 'good enough', whereas whenever I'm looking for a sound and I click on one of my stomp boxes its always an instant "OH yea, brilliant!" sensation. Multieffects would have me spending 30 mins tweaking settings and at the end I wouldn't feel like playing any more where as single effects are just click on, 10s adjusting dials and then inspiration.

[quote name='BassManKev' post='253153' date='Aug 2 2008, 09:44 AM']in your opinion iv been back and to with multi and individuals and i find theres benefits in both, and now iv decided that using multi effects for everything but distortion suits me great[/quote] No, its just fact that good quality stomp boxes can blow away even the best multi effects. Most digital effects units try to emulate analog stomp boxes anyway, which by logic means they're never going to achieve their goal (of emulating them perfectly), whereas stomp boxes just aim to sound 'really good' which they generally achieve wholeheartedly. Yes multi effects are more expensive and slightly more awkward (not too bad if you put em on a pedalboard though). If you're weighing up all factors combined then the multi effects would have a stronger argument, but soundwise you just can't top good single effects units (IE. not Boss/Behringer/Digitech etc. which for the most part to me don't sound better than the multi effects equivalents). [quote name='BigRedX' post='253165' date='Aug 2 2008, 10:00 AM']But what are you comparing? If you're looking at individual boutique pedals then your entry level for a multiFX comparison should probably be the TC Electronic G Force. For live use I'll take the convenience of programability (I get the exactly the same sound every time I select a particular pre-set) and and one switch selection available from a good quality multiFX over a possible slightly better sound from a boutique pedal any day. None of the audience will notice the sonic difference anyway.[/quote] I'm not really talking about 'boutique' pedals, just good quality well picked mass produced stuff (Aphex Punch factory, Big Muff Pi, EHX Memory Man w/ Hazarai etc.). I used a PodXT Live for recording and live work for a few years and got to know it pretty well, so thats my multi effects comparison point. I will admit that this is technically just 'in my opinion', but in this case it seems obvious enough to me to be like for example saying 'that ball is red and that one is blue' (and it being a true statement), then someone coming along and saying "Thats just your opinion!"

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='253105' date='Aug 2 2008, 01:34 AM']Hi Oscar, I wasn't talking about this page in particular It just seemed to me that a lot of people on the past pages of this thread were just 'spouting' at eachother as opposed to listening to eachother and being constructive. As you correctly pointed out, page 7 makes generally constructive & interesting reading.[/quote] Ah ok, no problem, your post just tickled me a bit because it seemed to be backtracking to an earlier point of the thread which we'd gotten past (to quote myself earlier in the thread: "anyone can have an opinion and voice it about anyone, theres no pre-requisite requirement to meet") [quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='253105' date='Aug 2 2008, 01:34 AM']I will say that from a professional musician's point of view, the I find the whole X-Factor culture quite depressing. In a way it feeds into a lot of playing culture as well. Obviously, as others have said, you can't begrudge people's success (no matter what their level of ability), but I do feel it all leads to an attitude that given the right chance, celebrity will come knocking. A feeling of instant gratification (almost like the video game culture), if you like. It detracts from the hard work that previously mentioned virtuoso performers have to put in.[/quote] I agree about this, I hate the 'bass celebrity' culture more than any too as its so caught up in gimmickry (technical and otherwise). I have a lot of respect for dedicated solo artists such as Jean Baudin and Michael Manring however, who persevere through the struggle of earning their living in probably one of the the hardest musical avenues (solo bass) and the whole while never sacrificing music integrity for cheap tricks. I see Manring as the true spiritual successor to Jaco, aside from being tutored by him which is merely coincidental to my point hes one of the only bassists who has really taken the instrument off on a completely different tangent and really shown people what can be done in ways they wouldn't have thought of. His impact has been less obvious due to a bit of a saturation of 'icon bassists' but in the same way that Jaco's work made people stop and think "Wow, you can really do a lot more with this instrument that I first thought!" Manring as expanded the boundaries of what people consider possible (or viable) for modern bass playing and also modern technology.

I don't 'dance' or thrash about as such but I move about a lot on stage (I always make sure I have an extra long cable heh), engage the audience a lot, interact with band members, move with the music etc.

I thought that a multi effects unit would do everything I needed, until I actually got hold of some good stomp boxes. Wow, you just can't even compare. The best distortion sound I've ever heard is the Big Muff Pi (not tried the bass version but the guitar one in great enough on bass). Not exactly subtle though.

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='253079' date='Aug 2 2008, 12:51 AM']Well, to put it another way, I'd like to know how many of you who have been arguing out this thread actually know what you are talking about? How many of you actually earn your living as professional musicians or music teachers (or both!)? I only ask as some of you really have been talking utter bollocks AT eachother Getting along is sooo much nicer than all this conflict. *Wanders off muttering, "Feels like the bloody Middle East in here..."*[/quote] Define 'what we're talking about' please. I can wager that every single one of us knows what we're talking about infinite times better than you do, because we're talking about our own opinions! If its your opinion that we're talking utter bollocks, then I disagree.. I say that you're wrong. Can you prove me wrong on that statement. Read this page of the thread in regards to the first half of your post. And I'd rather an interesting debate than an other arse-slapping thread of 'I agree's and '+1's that outstays its welcome because everyone keeps bumping it with the two previous replies. In fact I think the best thing about this forum is that everyone for the most part can disagree while still staying civil, thats a rare thing on an internet forum.

Why? This is an entertaining debate. I don't get this attitude some people have that everyone should always agree on everything, disagreeing is so much more interesting and you can learn so much more from it.

Is this still related back to my critisism of the Wooten/Berlin video or are we detached from that now? Because I gave a pretty specific explanation of what I didn't like about it.

Oscar club - founder.

[quote name='The Funk' post='251956' date='Jul 31 2008, 11:55 AM']Ouch! Oscar has his own way. He doesn't like Jazz, he hates Funk - and he pretty much hates everyone else's music. That's just his way.[/quote] Heh, you're pretty much correct there , I actually love jazz though on top of it influencing everything I play, I also play double bass in a jazz band that I founded myself, I love it for its musical value though and I hate the pretensiousness that often comes with it, I also can't stand it when people try to put what I would call bad playing down to 'jazz artistry'. I don't really *hate* funk, I loved it for probably longer than I've loved any other genre and got sick of it, plus I was somewhat just taking a contrary stand to try and get some discussion going. What I think people don't realise is that many people on the internet become a 'charicature' of themselves in reality. I certainly am, on the net I'm hypercritical and I make opinionated stands on controvercial issues for the sake of discussion and I guess my own amusement (who doesn't like sharing their opinions eh?). Another thing is that this 'X player has accomplished so much more than you so you can't critisise him/her' thing has to stop, anyone can have an opinion and voice it about anyone, theres no pre-requisite requirement to meet. Anyway, I'll rephrase my statement for the sake of argument.. "Thats some of the worst playing I've ever heard from a virtuoso musician". -_-

I think he uses a Headrush.

Music is subjective, you can't debate the truth of my statements due to that fact! Mwahahahaha.

Soliloquy is yet to be toppled as the greatest solo bass achievement, and somehow I doubt anyone but Manring himself has the ability to do it.

Bought Jakes, I wasn't expecting wonders after hearing a few peoples comments but this bass sounds brilliant! Can't get the setup as nice as my TRB but sound wise it isn't too far behind.

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='251717' date='Jul 30 2008, 10:37 PM']Here was me thinking this was going to be a nice thread celebrating the coming together of three of the greatest bass players of our time in the name of entertainment, but once again, it's all sinking into the mire of the "Musicians Wars" thread. Why not let's all criticise what we can't do ourselves? Sad, quite sad.[/quote] Don't be so negative, we like to criticize. Those guys know what they're doing so I doubt it'll be terrible, and I'd probably be a really good live show. Regardless, its going to be more of the same.. Clarke will strum powerchords and open string double stops on his elastic-band sounding bass, Miller will play the same slap groove he plays on every track, and then will move up two octaves and slap some kind of a melody, and Wooten will play some decent fingerstyle groove with a bunch of fancy harmonic runs thrown in, then will amaze us all by turning his bass into a 4 string click machine in front of our eyes. Meanwhile, if you want to hear a band with 3 bassists that actually has as much musical as novelty value, check out the early albums by 'Rothko'. They might be a bit hard to get hold of and are a bit ambientish, but is some of the most inspired and original music that I've ever heard.

[quote name='The Funk' post='250800' date='Jul 29 2008, 08:54 PM']Victor Wooten and Jeff Berlin, in action together [/quote] That was the worst thing I've ever heard, 10 minutes of pretentious jazz noodling while pulling 'arty' faces to uninteresting muddy sounding rhythm backing. Not only that But both (Berlin moreso) played some downright bad music in their solos, poor note choices (don't pretend they were trying to be arty, when you stop on notes that sound downright unmusical at that frequency in otherwise generic jazz soloing it isn't intensional), poor melodic flow etc. etc. Maybe theres some musical value in it somewhere but thats pretty much the worst I've seen of both those musicians.

Fieldy is a genius, KoRn are a really great band and shouldn't be bundled in with all the rubbish nu metal bands that they inspired but failed to live up to their influences standards.

Kyle Eastwood, saw him live a few years back and I was just expecting a decent player with a really good backing band. Hes actually a spectacular bassist, probably had the best live bass tone on double bass (bowed and pizz), fretless and fretted that I've ever heard, really interesting soloist and great all round player who doesn't need to rely on his dads name at all. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZg2kpPB0Cg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZg2kpPB0Cg[/url]

Bought Jakes Steinberger Spirit, a great deal, easy to work with, well packaged, good communication and quick dispatch.