rslaing

[quote name='Rayman' post='524778' date='Jun 26 2009, 12:30 PM']www.musicdojo.com I believe the courses they do over there are really goo. I'm biased because Adam Nitti is one of my favourites. Worth checking out at least. Personally, I believe that you can't beat one to one contact with a tutor in the flesh, rather than online.[/quote] Yep, good "distance learning" course at around £50 a lesson over I believe, over the period of a week or 10 days. As I also said, and agree, a physical "in the flesh tutor" is fine, depending upon which level you are at. The success and development of any player ultimately however, lies in their motivation to learn and the time spent applying the knowledge in practice sessions.

[quote name='Faithless' post='524674' date='Jun 26 2009, 10:25 AM']I'd better get a proper tutor, if I had 4 grand. Honestly. *runs for cover*[/quote] There's always one, isn't there But they wouldn't be able to teach you anything I can't supply while I am trying to in the Weekly Lesson for NOWT. However:- The time to employ a private tutor is most important when you start out playing, to teach the rudimentary aspects and ensuring you don't have, or build any bad habits. I personally believe, and not everyone agrees with this, that once a player gets to a certain stage, their hand positions are correct, and they have a decent knowledge of the fretboard, you can advance your skill level with progressively fewer visits to the tutor. As I said in the Weekly Lesson, the thread is not for newbies, although if they want help, they can pm me and I will see what I can do to assist. The secret to improvement when you are a musician is more often than not, the desire you have to learn, and the time you spend applying the knowledge you have acquired into your practice time. So give it a go, next lesson is probably more interesting as it is going to be on chords, relative scales, and scales you can play over certain chords with some more theory etc etc The whole idea is to give some structured advice on how interested people can take the theory and apply it to their instrument and playing. I am not saying the course will last for ever, but get out of it what you can while it lasts, and ask questions about stuff you don't understand.

[url="http://hhttp://www.roland.co.uk/prod_room_catdet.asp?ID=MICROBRttp://"]Boss Micro BR[/url]

In addition to the earlier post regarding the cycle of fifths and it's importance in music. I will try and keep this as simple as possible. If you really want to get in to the physics of sound, [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_series_(music)"]go to wikipedia and look up the circle of fifths and the pythagorean comma[/url]. If you want to retain sanity, just read this bit for now. This will hopefully give you some info about the circle of fifths. If you want a quick look at the harmonic series from the note C [url="http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic-art/255532/65374/"]go here [/url] Every time you pluck a string on your bass, the sound or note produced is a combination of the fundamental and a series of overtones called the harmonic series. In the harmonic series after you play a c note, you get a c harmonic an octave higher and after that, a G. Which is a 5th above C. This is where the sense of resolution or musical gravity in music emanates from. If you want to know the rest of the harmonic series every time you play a note, go to wikipedia because I don't want to complicate things here. When you play a G, followed by a C, there is a sense that you have set the G up as first overtone of the C, and then fallen naturally downward to the source of the gravity that hold that overtone series in place. Conversely, when you move from C to G, there is a sense that you are "climbing" through the overtone series of your original note. The music we hear in our everyday lives, tonal music, is full of peaceful resolution and at the opposite end, what sounds like exerted effort. These relationships also apply between the chords based on those notes and also modulation between the keys based on the notes. The cycle or circle of fifths (going down) or cycle of fourths (if you go upward) is a common modulation in a lot of popular songs because of it's natural tendency to fall into the next chord and is easy on the ear.Try playing either chords or the roots on your bass, or put together a bass line around this sequence of chords. G7 - C7 - F7 - Bb7 - Eb7 - Ab7 - Db7 - Gb7 - B7 - E7 - A7 - D7 - and back to where you started G7. The cycle of fifths is also used to imply a key centre in a tune. When you see a chord sequence e.g. Gm7 / C7 / Fm7 / Bb7 / Ebmaj7 you would normally read it as the first two chords being diatonic chords in the key of F major (the Gm7 being the II chord and the C7 being the dominant V chord). The C7 has a tendency to always want to resolve to the next chord a fifth down (but it doesn't always!! we will get to that later). The next chord in this sequence is Fm7 to Bb7 then to Ebmaj7. SO the II - V here, Fm7 to Bb7 are diatonic chords from the key of Eb, the Bb7 falling to the Eb. So you would use the key of Eb when playing notes in this second II - V - I sequence. Here are a couple of songs with easy to hear chord changes that contain the cycle of fifths. For another practical example and to put this theory in to practical sound you can hear the same effect in this re-done old tune, where the cycle of fifths is used to great effect, changing most of the time every two bars from the first verse onwards, going on endlessly without becoming boring (I.M.O). Listen for the chord changes from when she starts singing, and you will hear what I have written about so far. Not every change is that of a cycling fifth, but when it does, it is obvious to the ear. If you can't hear it, it might be a good idea to learn the song so my ramblings can be put into perspective Finally, try playing stacked fifths on a piano from note C (or as many as you can cover on your bass!). Notice something? No clashing of notes. C G D A E for example, are the first five notes in the stacked fifths, and also happens to be the C major pentatonic scale!! [url="http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/moneychords/circleprogressions.html"]Here is a link[/url] to a good article with lists of songs that have cyclical progressions and is full of good info. As usual, if any explanation is needed, or you have any questions, please put it in the thread for the benefit of everyone. Anyone with anything to add to this, (or even a contradiction) feel free to throw your hat in the ring. Any info I give as usual, is only stuff I have picked up over the years and some of it may have to be clarified or corrected depending upon how long I have been in the pub before I write this stuff

[quote name='silddx' post='523450' date='Jun 25 2009, 11:30 AM']Can I just get something straight here please? I am sure I'm wrong in thinking the only purpose of the [b]Cycle of Fifths [/b]and [b]Cycle of Fourths [/b]is to show the order of key signatures with incrementally increasing numbers of sharps and flats. What other benefits do the cycles bring? Thanks.[/quote] Briefly, and I'll expand upon this later today: The II -V relationship consists of a minor type chord moving to a dominant type chord (e.g. Dm7 to G7) with a cycle root motion - down a perfect fifth. Cycling in this manner is a very strong forward motion and is the most common of all chord movement. As you know, music is all about movement. It also helps to transpose and practice all licks/progressions etc in all 12 keys, and if you practice them in the cycle of fifths, it not only increases your abilities technically, but is also great for "the ear".

[quote name='bubinga5' post='523137' date='Jun 24 2009, 11:18 PM']So there not just rats of the sky!?[/quote] More reliable than the rats of the road (Royal Mail)

[quote name='bubinga5' post='523129' date='Jun 24 2009, 11:14 PM']The master at work, easily the best 'Musical' slapper playing today.. The man on drums is Poogie Bell. awsome too..You should check some of Poogie's albums out..[/quote] I will, thanks for the tip.

[quote name='steve-soar' post='523122' date='Jun 24 2009, 11:10 PM']My brain is trying to get to grips with you ordering them at 8 pm, then, getting them the next morning. [/quote] It's all due to the work ethic of the North West Pigeons.

[url="http://www.drstrings.com/main.html"]What do you think of this chaps?[/url] (Once you get to the site, you'll have to fast forward to Marcus Millers bit - sorry it doesn't appear straight away - it is worth listening too though Best version I have ever heard of "Boogie On Reggae Woman" If you can't be arsed to try and work the above out, here is a live but IMO not-so-good version on Tube Nice drumming too - (you can't beat a fat drummer)

[quote name='silky13' post='522982' date='Jun 24 2009, 09:30 PM']So what has been happening lately, have three weeks of catching up to do! [/quote] If I said "Groundhog Day" would it answer your question?

[quote name='JPAC' post='522958' date='Jun 24 2009, 08:57 PM']How much do you change the tone of your bass? [/quote] It's the notes that count................ (Victor Meldrew - 2009)

[quote name='wibble' post='522957' date='Jun 24 2009, 08:56 PM']I've just followed your link and checked out the 12 string Touchstyle thing. I'm going to lie down now. (Do you play it or sail somewhere on it?) [/quote] I can't play the f***ing thing. But maybe if I live to be 250 I might be able to knock a tune out They are a tremendous instrument, but I must master patting my head and rubbing my stomach first.

[quote name='wibble' post='522941' date='Jun 24 2009, 08:38 PM']Thanks for my welcomes - very, er, welcoming I got my home recording gear by learning to live without food [/quote] You'll do well in here then - you seem to have your priorities right.............

[quote name='Faithless' post='522761' date='Jun 24 2009, 05:33 PM']So, my tutor showed me this amazing program, and I'm working on in a lot as I like it very much, but, as I'm 5-string player (low B ), here's the question... Is there some sort of option, that allows the program to generate a bassline for 5-string instrument - cuz they're basically generated for 4-string, as you know?.. But, as Band-in-Box looks quite a smart thing, I thought, I could ask you, chaps.. P.S. I'm using a 2006 or 2007 version, if it makes any sense here.. Cheers, Faith.[/quote] Band in a Box is an amazing tool for a musician. For the money, it is probably IMO the best addition to a musicians computer that you could ever buy. It will definitely do what you want. Band in a box can be programmed to produce a bass line for any chord sequence in any range you want. But you will be better off using it as a learning tool and manufacturing your own. It will help you to do that too

[quote name='BB2000' post='522802' date='Jun 24 2009, 06:20 PM']Any chance of uploading the transcriptions Rob sent you (if he's happy with that)?[/quote] The arrangements are copywritten I'm afraid. But if you PM me your email address , I'll "lend" them to you for an indefinite period. They are full arrangements for an 8 piece with 3 horn parts. Can send them first thing in the morning if thats ok? Rob

[quote name='Mikey D' post='522613' date='Jun 24 2009, 02:17 PM']All great posts so far. Rslaing, I would suggest a slightly different way, adopting your technique of playing the low E, but playing the modes in order of "brightness"-"darkness" (I think this is even shown in the attached document to the first post). This way only one note changes at a time between the modes so you can hear the subtle (or not so subtle changes) it also groups the modes together as major or minor as described by Jake. Major Lydian: E F# G# A# B C# D# E Ionian: E F# G# A B C# D# E Mixolydian: E F# G# A B C# D E Minor Dorian: E F# G A B C# D E Aeolian: E F# G A B C D E Phrygian: E F G A B C D E Locrian: E F G A Bb C D E[/quote] Apologies, I should have made myself a little clearer but will improve my communication skills in future You can play them IN ANY ORDER. It doesn't matter. I only listed them in that order because that is how the modes are derived from a scale. Ionian from 1st note of scale, Dorian from the second note, Phrygian from the 3rd note etc. Cheers Rob

[quote name='spiltmilk_2000' post='522519' date='Jun 24 2009, 12:39 PM']Yeah huge thanks to you's for starting this... its a pretty huge undertaking but something that i think will on some level benefit every single Basschatterer! (Basschatist? Basschatee? whadever...) Looking forward to seeing what the syllabus has in store for weeks to come :-)[/quote] Thanks for that - we'll see how it goes. The success of this can only be driven by the interest of the participants though

[quote name='jakesbass' post='522507' date='Jun 24 2009, 12:28 PM']I have 3 basses 2 in very regular use. I have 2 pick ups both in regular use. One is an Underwood, the other an Accusound. The basses are an 1880 blockless wonder, an early 1900 Stuttgart region flatback and a cheapo ply bass that lives in the band van. On the cheapo and the stuttgart both pick ups work fine, but on the 1880 there is a very persistent G (therfore prob earth) Hummmmmm, It's driving me mad, it's not that loud but enough to piss me off, has anyone got any ideas???[/quote] If it's a "G" then I would agree, it is probably earth/electrical. Have a word with Howard (Bassdoc). He knows everything

[quote name='OldGit' post='520795' date='Jun 22 2009, 02:52 PM']My dad never said I was any good [/quote] Same here, and it has led to extensive psychiatric bills over the years

[quote name='jakesbass' post='522315' date='Jun 24 2009, 08:56 AM']And now a second approach to absorbing scales and mode: look at each scale in the 7 modes and realise that they are all within two groups, Major and Minor sounding (not necassarily in theory, just how they sound). Major: Ionian, Lydian, Mixolydian Minor: Dorian, Phrygian, Aeolian, Locrian.[/quote] A great way to practice the modes and get the sound of them in to your head is to (assuming you play a 4 stringer) play the open E string and let it ring. Start on the E (7th fret) on the A string and playing up the scales across the A, D, and G string, play the modes as follows. Don't forget to let the bottom E string ring out while you play these modes. It will reinforce the sound of the mode in your head. And if you can, sing the notes as you play them - good ear training. Ionian: E F# G# A B C# D# E Dorian: E F# G A B C# D E Phrygian: E F G A B C D E Lydian: E F# G# A# B C# D# E Mixolydian: E F# G# A B C# D E Aeolian: E F# G A B C D E Locrian: E F G A Bb C D E

Jake may have a point in the topic becoming too advanced too soon, so let's break the first topic in to smaller parts over the next few days. To tie in with the diatonic (diatonic basically means built from the notes of the scale) chords and modes lesson this week, you will find below a chord sequence and play along midi file which is probably the most commonly found and important progression in modern music, especially jazz, the II-V-I (two-five-one). In other words, from the scale of C major, the progression is the second diatonic chord built on the scale of Cmajor, the fifth diatonic chord and the root diatonic chord. Explanation:-if the key is Cmajor, the notes in that scale are C D E F G A B and finally C an octave higher than your first note. To build the II chord (Dm7 in this case) use the second note in the scale and build the chord in thirds. In other words D F A C To build the V (five) chord, take the fifth note in the scale, G and build up in thirds again. The resulting G7 will therefore be G B D F. To build the I chord, use the root C and build up in thirds. The resulting Cma7 will therefore be C E G B. [b]THE KEY CENTRE OF THIS PROGRESSION IS C MAJOR[/b] If the II chord was, for example Gm7, the V chord would be C7 and the I chord would be Fmaj7 (the key centre therefore would be F major) Play along with the midi file starting with just one note for each chord change to get the sound in your head. Then play root and fifth and build up to root third and fifth of each chord. Finally, play through using the full arpeggio on each chord e.g. on the Dm7 playing 4 beats to each bar you would use D F A C. On G7 play G B D F and on Cmaj7 play C E G B. After practising playing the chordal notes in your walking bass line at 4 beats (or more if you like!) to the bar, experiment using the non chordal notes as well. Once you have a handle on that, improvise over the full sequence as though you were a lead instrument. It's easy - you can play the full C major scale at random as every note "fits" all 3 chords. You may want to play in this manner in a higher register to differentiate "the sound" of the notes and their qualities relative to the chord and beat. You will find that some notes are stronger than others and you might want to observe the effect of the "avoid" note of F (the 4th note in C major scale) when playing over the Cmajor7 chord. You will find it is ok as a "passing" note played on the upbeat (e.g.beat 3) but if you sustain it, you will hear the dissonance on the Cmaj7 but how well it fits the Dm7 and the G7. If you want to be really adventurous, you could try playing the chromatic notes (non-chordal or scalar) as "approach notes". Approach notes are notes that lead into, or approach, the main notes which you are playing. Basically the approach note creates a little bit of tension which pulls you into some other note. Non scalar notes are the ones that aren't in the scale (obviously) and in this case would be Db Eb Gb Ab Bb. The chord sequence for the play along is:- :|Cmaj7 / / / |Dm7 / G7 / |Cmaj7 / / / |Dm7 / / / |: Use the roman numerals method below to transpose the progression in to any key. Get used to the II V I by starting the sequence on a different note each time you practice. :| I / / / | II / V / | I / / / | II / / / |: repeated over and over and over and over The midi file should automatically open in your default player. It plays ok in Windows Media Player or similar. [url="http://www.trds.co.uk/music/12CSwing.MID"]Link to midi file is here[/url] There is a bass line on it so you might want to have a listen first to get the idea. If any of the above is not clear - just post your question.

There are a number of people who have shown interest in advancing their understanding of music theory and how to apply it to their instruments. In response to Jakesbass and Major Minor (I think!) also showing interest in helping out with the topics, I am starting off the thread with a lesson on diatonic chords and modes (well, we have to start somewhere). I am sorting out a "syllabus" so there will be a degree of structure to this "course". Why am I doing this? Although I have a degree of knowledge and practical experience (40 years ) , I also hope to learn more about theory to an advanced level while this thread (hopefully) runs it's course, and perhaps a few things I didn't know about This thread is not starting at ground level, you must be able to read music in both bass and treble clef. The reason for this is that I have nicked stuff from here and there to show examples, and I don't have the time to tab it, or transcribe the treble clef stuff in to bass clef. I will also upload limited material initially from a few excellent manuals I have acquired for interested players to read, absorb, and ask questions about. Anyway, I imagine anyone interested in theory will either have a basic reading ability, or will take the time out to learn. If you want to learn, but have little knowledge, would like to learn to read music etc, please pm me separately with the topic that you want to learn about at grassroots level and I will forward material that will help. The questions or comments in the thread MUST be relative and on topic please? So, let's give it a go. This is the basic start to theory for a bass player, [b]diatonic chords and modes[/b]. The knowledge gleaned relative to this will help the player learn the notes he can use to play over a chord, and give you a grounding for when we move on to key centres (basically understanding which notes can be played over a chord sequence relative to the key of that moment). Don't worry if it seems complicated. Take your time and post any question you have about it in the thread. By doing that you will also help the people who are perhaps a little too reserved to get involved. Finally, I hope the materials provided, and the answers given are a help to anyone interested. I am not attempting to do anything other here than structure something which will be a help. I presently have time on my hands and can only play my bass for 6 hours a day max so this could keep me out of the pub. There will be a syllabus (when I have finished it) and the materials given every week will be relative only to that topic. I hope that by the time we are finished - if we ever get that far - we will have a full online course for the bass player that wants the knowledge that goes with being a great player. Fingers crossed I hope I am not being too optimistic............(ending up in me resembling an idiot for trying to do this) Here is the first part, there is a lot of stuff in it, so please ask about anything you want explained in more detail so the experts/pro's can make the learning process easier for you than it was for them. Obviously, the continuance of the effort will be relevant to the amount of interest shown !! Rob [size=2][b]If you would like supporting written materials on this topic, please PM me with your email address and I will forward it to you[/b][/size]

[quote name='silddx' post='521685' date='Jun 23 2009, 01:43 PM']. I feel it's a bit of a shame you have introduced this note of negativity, bordering on trolling, in your otherwise great post though. Try to be a bit more positive, opinions can be changed, mine has.[/quote] It's hardly trolling, it's advice for MM so that he won't have to combat the crap I have had to deal with from certain people in this forum. (I notice that they don't seem to be around much lately.?) I am being positive. I am trying to get people with knowledge to construct a forum thread that will help others. Let's leave it at that eh?

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='521646' date='Jun 23 2009, 01:01 PM']Looks good but it only seems like it's available on eBay which makes me a little suspicious. [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/fender-jazz-bass-varitone-control-plate-with-tone-knob_W0QQitemZ170347163466QQcmdZViewItemQQssPageNameZRSS:B:SRCH:UK:101"]This one[/url] is a bit cheaper though.[/quote] Isn't that price just a starting bid? So might not be cheaper?