Misdee

There are so many great things about EBMM Musicman basses that it would take me too long to list them, and for my own sonic tastes at least, these new Stingray Specials are just about the best -sounding Stingrays I've ever heard. They've tamed the treble a bit and added even more punch to the sound. But £3000 is a bit too optimistic on their part. It's asking Maserati money for a Volkswagen. I take your point about the Fender CS comparison, but most Fender CS basses have quartersawn necks nowadays, and you can custom order to your requirements. EBMM basses have flatsawn necks with no graphite reinforcement, and MM have become increasingly limited in the options they offer their customers. That is because standardisation is a way of maximizing efficiency and therefore profits. All this business about supply problems, transportation issues ect really is the concern of the manufacturer, not the consumer. It's also probably a smokescreen/red herring to excuse the decision to increase profit margins to offset the cost to their business of covid and the subsequent worldwide lockdown. They are taking a punt that we will be prepared to pay three grand for a bass worth two grand rather than deny ourselves the thrill of owning one of these glittering (literally) new offerings. I suspect very strongly that EBMM are looking to make back the money they have lost , it's as simple as that. What will be fascinating is how well they have judged their potential customers. And if they succeed in selling their guitars at this price point then what next? Presumably the sky's the limit! And if folks don't buy EBMM'S at the new prices what will happen then?

The Fender factory in California turns out more guitars than EBMM, but it isn't half as big as you might suppose. It is inaccurate to portray Fender as churning out a vast number of lesser quality instruments in comparison to an EBMM factory which produces small numbers of high quality artisan- made guitars with a superior degree of integrity. I've had a fair few new EBMM basses over the years, and some of them were great, some not so great in terms of their construction quality. Just the same as my experience of the USA Fenders. May I ask, how do you know that EBMM are experiencing greater production costs and supply chain problems due to fallout from covid? Is that what EBMM have said or is it something you are supposing ? Business models, supply chains and the like are the concern of the manufacturer and their dealers. If they make a mess of things and can't get their goods to market at a realistic price then it's not the consumers role to make up excuses or explanations on their behalf . Are EBMM subject to these alleged increased costs more than other manufacturers of a similar size, such as G&L, for example? ( I mention G&L because I have consistently found them to be better made than EBMM basses with equally good proprietary hardware and their own signature sound, just like Musicman. )Why aren't all the others following suit and jacking up their prices to such a degree? I totally understand (and share😊) your enthusiasm for Musicman basses, but because you have been a repeat customer over many years ,EBMM owe a debt of loyalty to you, not the other way around. Ultimately as buyers we will look at three grand for a new Stingray and then look round at what else you can get for that money. In my estimation the 2021 Stingray Specials are overpriced by about a grand (certainly £800-£900)for the quality of guitar that they are.

My perspective on this is that EBMM have the perfect right to charge whatever they please for their basses, and the consumer will decide whether or not to pay that price. What I am wondering is why EBMM have decided that now is the time for such a shift in pricing. Maybe they are in such financial trouble due to to Covid/ lockdown ect that they see no other way to survive. If so ,then they are taking a gamble. They could end up with 100 percent of nothing. Or maybe they feel they have been undervaluing their goods.They may genuinely believe that the buying public has had it too good for too long. It's worth considering that one of the things that contributes to perceived value of luxury goods is the high price tag they demand.It's the retail equivalent of The Emporers New Clothes. Most likely, though, is that it is a combination of a lot of things, including what I have just speculated on . It would be nice to be able to ask EBMM the question directly. And what will they do if no one buys them ? I'll still probably end up buying one in the end and be left sucking lemons because of the price. Thing is I could do with two, one for rounds and one for flats. That was my original plan.Now I will have to settle for one if I am lucky and keep changing the strings. As if I didn't have enough to do already.

Sorry to say it my friend, but EBMM basses are not "low volume high end". They are mid-market mass-produced instruments. You are kidding yourself if you think they are manufactured to the same standard as a well designed prestige luthier- made bass. (However, it must be said, I have much more fun playing a Musicman bass than a great many fancy boutique basses. How good quality does a bass guitar need to be? Anyhow...)I think your Rickenbacker /Fender CS comparisons are about right, whilst bearing in mind that most analogies don't bear close examination. That said, there is no doubt that these new Stingrays are very worthwhile instruments. I am not that keen on most of the colours , but each to their own, there is no right and wrong to it. The real controversy is the grotesque price increase which has accompanied their introduction. The pound has been relatively stable against the dollar. Paint hasn't suddenly rocketed in price. They don't claim to be made any different. The only thing that has changed is the profit margins that the manufacturer and/ or distributors have decided they need to make. I am in the market for a new Stingray Special - I bought one last year but it had holes in it so it had to go back - but I can't see myself being the guy who pays three grand for a Stingray. I might as well abandon all reason and buy a new German-made "custom shop" Warwick .(Actually , I would probably need to get some kind of a mortgage for that.) It will be very interesting to see how the market responds to EBMM's new prices. Will this be the guitar equivalent of the European Super League, or will the buying public just shrug their shoulders and accept a new reality where Musicman basses cost that much? And if they manage to get away with it, will other manufacturers follow suit?

You've hit the nail on the head there.

Exactly.

I seem to remember that a few years ago PRS were marketing a batch of guitars ( an extremely limited quantity, of course) made from wood from the forest where , according to local legend, Stradivarius harvested the timber for his creations. If that doesn't guarantee you a truly magical instrument I don't know what will.

No, but it's going to be loud.😄

Those Strads are overrated, just like classical music in general . Nevermind fancy violins , if Stradivarius had been as clever as folks make out he would have invented an amp. Even cheap modern violins that they lend to schoolchildren to try learn on are loud enough nowadays to drive you crazy if you put them in the right hands, which they usually do...

Like some of the other Basschatters of more senior years, I can remember when a lot of what is nowadays vintage gear was new, and/or not particularly desirable on the second hand market. So much of what folks are paying for is romantic ideas rather than any tangible advantage vintage basses have over their modern counterparts. I love old Fender basses as much as anybody, but in terms of sound and playability a decent level recent USA Fender is just as good or better. I have owned several 1970s P Basses- I used them in the 1980s because they were cheap- and none of them were as good as my 2010 American Standard P Bass I bought new. The same with Jazz Basses. I would rather spend money on a new boutique USA Lakland or Lull or new Fender CS than a mid to late 70s Fender that I could have picked up for £200 back in the late 1980s. To me basses are tools that I like to work properly. The vast majority of vintage basses are like vintage cars, or great to look at and have a go on but a bit of a pain in the derrière to own and maintain. As for "hifi" basses such as JD or Wal ect, I cannot think of anything else that could possibly make me feel so old as the idea that such basses are now considered vintage.This was never meant to happen! It's like people talking about vintage space travel.These basses epitomised everything that was modern in an age when modernity was the ideal. If you want such a bass then do the appropriate thing and buy a new one, preferably from the Bass Center at Wapping when it was upstairs, and pay about £700- 800 quid for it. Make sure you are sporting a mullet and a questionable outfit from Top Man for the authentic experience.

The big problem with slap bass is that people got too good at it. Back in the 70s old school slap ( which was actually new school at the time) sounded great on a lot of records. But as time went on slapping developed to the extent that it lost a lot of its charm . Victor Wooten can slap like a demon, but for my taste at least, his playing lacks the magic and distinctive character of Larry Graham or Chuck Rainey and the best slap players from that earlier era.

If you can live with 18mm spacing and medium weight , how about a Yamaha BB P35 or a used Bb2025 ? The tone is a great blend of modern punch and traditional passive grunt.

I've got one of these. It's a terrific bass, but you need to be aware of the chunky neck profile. For some reason, I know not why, Fender decided to give these basses a big "U" -shaped neck. That is not necessarily a bad thing by any means, but if you are expecting the more typical svelte Jazz Bass neck dimensions then these basses could be a bit of a shock. I should also point out that the nut is slightly narrower than a typical Jazz Bass, and that seems to offset the chunkyness to some extent. I love the chunky neck on mine , and I can shred on it as well as I can on any of my other basses (i.e not very well at all 😄) despite it being more of a handful. Nowadays I've got Thomastik flats on mine and I use it primarily as my reggae bass. Nails all the classic tones perfectly. The big neck feels really good for playing those kind of basslines on . The 74 vintage reissue pickups are superb. They were developed for this bass but Fender subsequently marketed them as a separate item, and they would probably be my first choice if I were looking for a set of raunchy- sounding Jazz Bass pickups. I've had plenty of high -end Jazz Basses and in comparison I would have to describe the 74 AVRI as being much more Fender - like, i.e flawed but brimming with personality, if that makes sense. The 74 AVRI has got clank and clunk rather than the thump and sizzle you get from a lot of modern- sounding boutique Jazz Basses.

How about the EBS Billy Sheehan Ultimate Drive? I haven't had a chance to try one myself, but from what I have seen on YT it seems to have been designed to offer enormous control over the final tone.

The 5000 was great, but the string spacing was way too tight for most people, unless you can find the super-rare wide spacing version that Yamaha offered very briefly. The Indonesian- made Yamaha's are absolutely fine in my book, but there is something special about the full-tilt Japanese version. I am old enough to remember when they were all made in Japan, as were Ibanez, Aria ect, and folks never realised just how good they really were at the time. It was different times to nowadays where Made in Japan is a mark of quality just as much as Made in Germany or, heaven help us, Made in the UK.Its just a shame that the world economy has changed to the extent that so many Japanese companies manufacture offshore nowadays, because the Japanese have a formidable track record of craftsmanship equal to anybody, and they love quality products.When it comes to luxury goods, they aspire to the best.

That is a very nice bass, no doubt, but I am already well- served for Jazz Basses. I would want these basses to be something a bit different.

The BB2000 is also ripe for a reissue, as is the BB3000, for that matter. Again, they would have to be made in Japan to do justice to the originals. There was a golden age of manufacturing in Japan in the 70s and 80s ( not just in musical instrument making but across the board) and that was a big part of what made those basses so special.

That SB bass with the maple board looks great. Given the trend towards slightly quirky retro designs, I think if Yamaha were to resurrect that style it would be well received, especially if it were equipped with some nice and beefy- sounding pickups. As with all Yamaha basses, it would have to be Japanese- made to peak my interest, but I expect it will never happen anyway.😟

I would echo everything Ben has said. In my estimation the wenge neck/ fingerboard is a big part of what sets Warwick basses apart. They seem to add some natural compression to the sound. I can't really comment on the MEC preamp vs the John East , but I can tell you that some of the Mec pickup designs ie the ones modern-style ones with enclosed pole pieces are way too microphonic for my taste. I don't like the way the Corvette hangs on a strap in terms of balance and where the neck hangs, but you may feel differently. The Thumb is similarly awkward-feeling to me, but some folks don't mind them. Thumb Basses certainly sound good, that's for sure. Also be aware that a lot of Warwick basses can be pretty weighty. I remember when Warwick basses first came to the UK and how the Bass Centre were instrumental in giving them a high profile in the industry by introducing the pro players in London to their undeniable charms. But as Ben says the older pre-2000 basses were different . And they were all German-made. Nowadays a new German Custom Shop bass is crazy money. Too much money for what it is. You can buy a used vintage Warwick for very reasonable money and there is plenty of them out there .

Superb bass player, terrific band, truly great song. Growing up at this time as I did , the late 1970's/early 1980's was an era when music seemed to be more important in peoples lives compared to now, and the Specials epitomise that period to me.

For some reason-I know not why- the Japanese Yamaha workshop cut the nut slots on the shallow side ie the relief at the nut is higher than a lot of other basses. I have seen it on so many basses from them that I think they do it on purpose. The funny thing is that the basses seem to play well, regardless. A Fender with those nut slot heights would feel very stiff by comparison.

Yes, a B-Neck 1 5/8 inch is the most I can handle in terms of width on a four string bass.

Yes, the NE2 is a wonderful instrument, a truly high-end bass. I would put it up against any other prestige bass you could care to mention, both in terms of sound and construction. I love the modern-but-gutsy sound of the NE2 , but I've got a BB2025 because I prefer passive basses and it's fairly light for a five. I must really like Yamaha basses, because I normally won't entertain anything less than 19mm spacing on a five string bass . 18mm is O.K, and overall I find the BB bridge/nut spacing more comfortable and playable than something like a Stingray 5 string. At least the strings don't keep slipping off the edge of the fingerboard.