paulbuzz

The thing about DI boxes is that it depends on what you're trying to achieve: do you want to preserve the sound of your bass with maximum fidelity, or do you want to mess with it in some way that you hope to find subjectively pleasing? If you're trying to maintain fidelity, the answer is easy: you want an active DI box, because electronics that do this are cheap and reliable; nothing is really going to do this any better than the £35 Orchid DI box mentioned by various people above. If you want the sound to be altered in some way, then all bets are off, because who knows what changes you might deem acceptable or desirable? Any passive DI box, no matter how high quality, with a passive bass plugged directly into it, is going to alter the frequency response quite radically, because their input inpedance is always too low to match the bass's magnetic pickups properly. This doesn't apply with active basses, because the pickups are buffered by the electronics in the bass, so then you might well notice that the more expensive passive DIs have lower distortion and greater fidelity than cheaper ones. But then if high fidelity is what you're after, you should probably just get an active DI anyway. So at this point, it's really all going to be a bit hit-and-miss which passive DI, cheap or expensive, will do things to the sound that you happen to like. In which case you might as well try out some cheap ones (as long as they're sufficiently well-constructed to not fall apart, which most seem to be...) since they're probably just as likely to make the particular sound you want as a more expensive one is...

You want cheap? Here's cheap: [url="https://www.thomann.de/gb/millenium_die_dibox_passiv.htm"]https://www.thomann.de/gb/millenium_die_dibox_passiv.htm[/url] Give it a try - what's to lose? It might be perfect for your needs! Why do you particularly want a passive one? My own choice would be another vote for the Orchid Electronics ones recommended by sk8, but they are active, as you noted.

Hmm, a late surge in popularity for the 'leave it alone' option! It's great to get these differing opinions to weigh up!

Ah, interesting to have an alternative viewpoint Ghost, thanks for that! Didn't know that the original Promethean had a traditional driver while its extension cab had a neo - that seems quite strange! It's okay man, we're among friends here, we can use the 'h' word! Pretty certain from the manufacturer's part number that the driver in my H-B is the Elder Audio / Beta Three one...

Hi Balcro That's all extremely useful info - thanks very much indeed for your help with this! I'm leaning towards getting the Celestion driver - if this happens I'll let you know how the results pan out! Thanks again, Paul

Having now had another look at WinISD using the correct cab dimensions , the existing tuning of the cab seems a bit more sensible and less lumpy...? It also seems to emphasise the differences between the response curves of the Deltalite 2510 and the Celestion NTR10-2520D - the Deltalite seems to be a bit louder from ~110Hz to ~200Hz, while the Celestion seems to be a bit louder from ~110 Hz down to ~70Hz ...? This tends to make me think the Celestion might be the better bet - would you agree?

Hi Balcro The dimensions on the diagram are my own measurements, so I have to admit an error: the port height, marked as 37mm, is in fact 25mm. The other figures on the diagram are correct. Updated diagram attached! [attachment=256627:hb-cab.jpg] The dimensions in my original post were copied from a post on TalkBass - I have now realised that that post referred to the original Ibanez Promethean combo, which is very closely related to my HB/RedSub/Beta-Aivin combo but does have different cabinet dimensions. Apologies for my stupidity! Paul

Hi Balcro I did have a play with the cab tuning a bit in WinISD, without having much of a clue what I was doing! As far as I could see, the existing dimensions gave it a tuning of about 99 Hz, and a lump in the bass at about 130 Hz. The way the port and its shelf are arranged is a bit difficult to describe, so here's a quick 'n' dirty diagram: [attachment=256533:hb-cab.jpg] I noticed that lowering the tuning of the cab to about 65 Hz gave a smoother response and extended the bass range a bit. However, this would seem to involve lengthening the port to 415mm, which seems a bit tricky given the size/shape of the cab! I thought of maybe extending the port shelf to the back edge of the cab - this would make the port about 205mm long and, I think, reduce the tuning to about 85 Hz. Is this the kind of thing you're suggesting? It looks from the WinISD graphs as though either the Deltalite or the Celestion driver would be a big improvement over the stock driver - I'm really just trying to confirm that swapping the driver would be a worthwhile endeavour! Thanks again for spending your time on this! cheers, Paul

Thanks, Bill. I appreciate that such a tiny box is never going to produce ground-shaking bass, but this cheap little combo has been so good, I think it may be worth spending a bit of extra money to get the best performance I can from it.

Thanks very much for the replies! I took some measurements from my own box today, and calculated the internal volume as about 17.9 litres, after accounting for driver displacement and port volumes. I also had a play with WinISD (though I freely admit I don't really know what I'm doing with it), and it appeared to me that either the Eminence Deltalite II 2510 or the Celestion NTR10-2520D would be a huge improvement over the original driver in terms of maximum output before hitting the driver's excursion limit. Just trying to understand this stuff better: Balcro: what leads you to suggest that the Eminence 2510 wouldn't be happy in such a small box? The Eminence spec sheet seems to recommend vented boxes from 17 to 40 litres...? Bill: what's causing you to favour the 2510 over the Celestion? Also (veering far out of my comfort zone!) why does a Qes of 0.21 rule out the 3010MB as a bass driver? And do any other suitable alternative drivers spring to mind?!

I've got a Harley-Benton BA5110C - a 1x10" 250W/500W combo which was also available branded as Red Sub and Beta-Aivin, and is also (very!) closely related to the original version of the Ibanez Promethean, as extensively discussed [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/168416-another-promethean-clone/"]in this old thread[/url]. I'm interested in upgrading its [url="http://www.elderaudio.com/products/Loudspeakers/LowMiddle/2009/10LB075-U.html"]original driver[/url], with several possible goals in mind: 1) reducing weight by using a Neodymium speaker 2) extending headroom by using a driver with a higher maximum output 3) possibly improving the bass response of the combo (though I understand that this is limited by its tiny cabinet) In the original thread linked above, there was some discussion of such an upgrade, and [url="http://basschat.co.uk/user/21427-straightsix/"]StraightSix[/url] said he'd used a [url="https://celestion.com/product/72/ntr102520d/"]Celestion NTR10-2520D[/url] for this, with good results. The [url="http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=DeltaliteII_2510"]Eminence DeltaLite II 2510[/url] was also mentioned as a possibility. This was way back in 2014 though, and things seem to move quite quickly in the world of drivers - price changes, new models etc. So what I'm looking for is some advice from any passing speaker experts as to whether this Celestion might still be a good choice ([url="https://goo.gl/a2fYYp"]currently £139 from Lean[/url]) , or whether there might now be better options - eg [url="http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Kappalite_3010MB"]Eminence Kappalite 3010MB[/url] ([url="http://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/eminence-kappalite-3010mb-10-400w-8-ohm-neo-loudspeaker-driver-p-2162.html"]a bit pricey at £170[/url]) ? If it's helpful, here's the dimensions of the cab section of the combo, copied from a [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/ibanez-promethean-p5110-speaker-upgrade-874880/"]thread that StraightSix started at The Other Place[/url]... [indent=1] The internal cab dimensions are: 285mm high 302m wide 213mm deep There is a slot port at the front 302mm X 28mm and the port shelf runs from the front of the cab and leaves a 100mm air gap between the rear shelf edge and the rear cabinet panel.[/indent] Thanks in advance for any suggestions! Paul

This may be getting slightly away from the OP's 'what bass' question, but I've recently taken to using a block of foam under the strings near the bridge as a damper, for added thump. (This is with a p-bass with flats.) This has helped greatly in getting a country-ish sound that's the exact opposite of the clangy roundwound sound I've always favoured previously!

Ha! Fair enough, I stand corrected! So, having dug around the internet a bit, here's Brian Ritchie's tips for acoustic bass guitar (from an interview in BassPlayer magazine) : [quote]Get the biggest acoustic bass guitar you can find. Hit it as hard as you can until you develop maximum technique. After that you can reel in the volume and use dynamics. Play in acoustic settings as often as you can. Do [i]not [/i]rely upon an amplifier for your sound. The louder you can play the bass acoustically, the less likelihood of feedback once you are amplified. Don’t let those pesky drummers and guitarists push you around, and have fun.[/quote]

The many previous comments regarding the practical difficulties of acoustic bass guitars are certainly fair, but I think they do have a tone of their own that can't easily be replicated by any other type of instrument. Listen to pretty much anything by the Violent Femmes to hear a sound that is clearly identifiable as an (amplified) acoustic bass guitar... (Splendid and under-appreciated playing by Brian Ritchie too!)

I'm with paulears (no relation, despite any coincidental username similarity!) Most unreliable connectors evar. Would never attempt to use unless unplanned silences seemed like a fun idea.

Bought a pedal from Rik - quick and easy; friendly communications. Would certainly trade with him again.

Chiming in with my sound engineer hat on: DON'T get a single coil magnetic pickup for an acoustic guitar. Loads of people have them, for some inexplicable reason, and they nearly always buzz like a bastard as soon as you get them anywhere near any lights. When I am president they will be made illegal, and anyone turning up a gig expecting to use one will be burnt at the stake. Humbucking ones are fine.

Also, you can annoy other family members by attaching pedals to the carpet in your house.

Here's another alternative: [url="http://www.orchid-electronics.co.uk/Amp_Interface.htm"]http://www.orchid-electronics.co.uk/Amp_Interface.htm[/url] Sound-On-Sound review here: [url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan14/articles/orchid-amp-interface.htm"]http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan14/articles/orchid-amp-interface.htm[/url] In my experience, all of Orchid's products are very good value, and really good. ---------------------- IMO Radial products are laughably overpriced. [ducks for cover...]