tegs07

I went on a trip down memory lane to my old home town and one of the pubs that used to serve the local music scene. Back in the day it was a bit of a dump and an underage drinkers haven. Mid week unpaid, amateur acts could play. The good ones may even get invited to play the coverted Saturday night slot and get a small amount of pay but to a surprisingly large crowd. It’s now a tasteful gastro-pub. I had hand caught trout and a nice Chablis and put more in the till that afternoon than pretty much my entire teenage years drinking in the place. My middle aged, middle class self liked the place. My teenage self would have loathed it. In short I doubt any Stranglers or Jams will be emerging from that genteel corner of leafy Surrey in the near future.

Tales Of Brave Ulysses - Cream

Stinkfist - Tool

Did someone here get this?

Creep - Radiohead

Nope I am an IT professional though and have a professional electricians qualification so can charge for electrical work if I wanted so in your definition I have to choose? I still don’t understand how any of your personal insults relate to my simple points about amateur musicians not being a threat to professional ones nor the issue that if they are unproven why they should automatically get paid but am tired of this now.. Some people are simply rude.

Good lord your certainly not an amateur angry pants are you? I see no mention of proportion of time spent to make something a profession. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/professional?q=Professional+

If your doing something for money rather than fun and getting paid to do it your not an amateur. You can be part time it makes no difference.

Yes for free at a pub that took a punt on amateur bands hence didn’t pay. If you are getting paid repeatedly and doing it for the money well done you are a professional not an amateur. It’s not complicated.It’s also pretty rare particularly if your building up a National let alone international fan base. PS punk band. Teenagers and crap. No one in their right mind would have paid us.

OK I am clueless as you were everyone. I would suggest you look up the dictionary definition of Amateur and Professional though before making comments that make no sense. If people constantly pay me to plaster their walls I am not an amateur plasterer. I may be a crap plasterer but that’s a different matter.

Some get lucky, some don’t, some realise that they are not that great and quit, some are crap but hit the jackpot anyway. It’s not a fair or just career path!

Without being pedantic I am struggling with two bits of logic: 1. Amateur musicians are affecting the careers of professional musicians even though all professional musicians started their careers as amateurs. 2. Amateur musicians should always be paid. Even if they are at the work experience stage of their career and are not very good. I love watching pub bands and bands at community events, particularly if I know people involved but have to be honest there are very few I would pay to watch.

Biscuits for breakfast - Fink

I don’t care if I am right or wrong. If there are venues out there that will give an amateur musician a break I am happy. If an amateur can turn pro and start to earn money even better. If an amateur plays for fun and gets pleasure from doing so again this is fine.

From Wikipedia: They performed their first live show at the Cliffs Pavilion, Southend-on-Sea, on 1 April 1987, and their last at The Half Moon, Putney on 1 April 2012, exactly 25 years later. They initially played in local pubs with no ambitions to take themselves seriously or to turn professional. Note: professional simply means paid or paid enough to give up your day job. Getting to the point of being paid or paid enough will start somewhere. Usually this is as an amateur and for fun not cash.

Amateur network engineers don’t get paid. They have to do something else to get paid until they get the experience. The same with amateur musicians and amateur carpenters and amateur actors and amateur photographers and ….

The anology is CCNA not a ticket to network engineer. Amateur musician is not a ticket to paid gigs. Simply having some skills doesn’t mean you get paid for them. It takes time and some luck. I have a bass and a guitar next to me. In my garage I have woodworking tools. I’m not going to get paid straight off for using either as I am an amateur.

So The Hamsters emerged fully formed as pro musicians paid from the offset with promoters and an audience waiting for them. They were never teenagers with their mum dropping them down the local to play bad AC/DC covers with their college mates? I know some musicians with agents playing original music and some playing covers. They all started playing for free and were thankful of the venues that let them play. How many times do you need this explained to you if your going to be rude?

The Oyster Band were another of the pub circuit bands I saw progress to art centres, small events etc alongside The Men they couldn’t hang (who I always preferred) and the ones that got to the next level (pun intended) The Levellers. Glad the Hamsters were decent blokes- they always made the effort. Never saw them do a bad gig even when playing to less than 50 people in a pub beer garden BBQ thing in the rain.

Pick up the pieces- AWB

Nobody needs average music. I wouldn’t pay an amateur plaster to get better honing their craft on my walls. A decent plasterer will always have work but needs some way of getting the skills required. Free pub gigs and community festivals IMO are a good thing and a rite of passage for most musicians. My teenage years were spent watching various mates bands play pubs. If people had to pay to get in then they would never have got the gigs to start with. Most of them were crap, but it was always fun. At least one of the guys I went to see got good enough to make a living from playing their own music. Everyone has to start somewhere. Edit: As I have said this exists in every industry. In my own career I have seen endless paper CCNA and MCSE guys shocked that no company will let them loose on their network. They start on a help desk and work their way up. The hours spent and cash spent on the exams is the start not the end of the journey.

Back in the day I would pay to see the hamsters frequently even though plenty of other middle aged blokes were playing blues/ rock for free in pubs. I would even drive miles after work. The Hamsters had an audience and made a living playing pubs and bike shows etc as they were better than the amateurs. The vast amount of people playing pubs won’t make a living playing their music. I don’t feel this is down to the competition playing for free.

If they really want to see you they will be willing to pay. If they aren’t willing to pay then it’s not because another band is playing for free. It doesn’t work like that.

To have a market you need a willing consumer. You can’t force people to pay for something they don’t need or want. I don’t need an average pub band and plenty of times I don’t want one either.