1976fenderhead

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1328658299' post='1530935'] Thanks man, the lack of tone suckage has pretty much sold this to me! I can deal with just not using the tuner and keeping the Pitchblack if I'm not happy with that. Shame I don't have any money at the moment or I'd have yours straight off you! Poooooo! [/quote] haha, on the way to where it came from already

[quote name='Green Alsatian' timestamp='1328654064' post='1530861'] On the subject of the Line 6 M5 - is that just one effect at a time? ie. you can't form chains of effects like dirt > modulation > delay > reverb? I've owned the Line 6 MM4 (Modulation Modeller) and the DD4 (Delay Modeller) in the past, which I mainly used with synths and they were both 'one at a time', which was a pity, especially on the MM4 as I like to run a slow phaser into a rapid flanger for a pseudo 'Ensemble' effect from the 70s string synths. For the most part, the effects were really good and it was nice that Line 6 'played with history' on some of them by going beyond their original functionality (eg. adding depth and resonance control to the Phase 90 model). The DD4 was also a lot of fun, in particular. I imagine the M5 models are an advancement on the old modeller series. Back to the B3, watch out for the 'Bomber' effect on the B3, folks - it's literally an explosion effect, triggered by playing! I nearly jumped out of my skin with the headphones on when I belted a note with it on! [/quote] Happened to me yesterday when I was trying to play quietly after the neighbours complained, late in the evening, then BOOM! oops The M5 is 1 effect only at a time, the M9 you have 3 pairs of 2 pedals, on each pair you can have 1 pedal on, so you can have 3 on at the same time. The M13 lets you have 4 on at the same time. They also allow for patches and the M9 and M13 have different banks too.

[quote name='aldude' timestamp='1328630782' post='1530337'] Weird, on mine the number of lights tells you how far away from the note you are. I use chromatic mode. [/quote] Yes of course, but you have basically 3 levels of distance to the right and 3 to the left, with the M5 or Pitchblack you have nearly infinite levels because on the M5 you have as many as the resolution of the screen, and on the PB you have the number of lights plus their dimming from one to the next. A lot more stages to see where you are.

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1328629540' post='1530306'] Thanks for the incredibly detailed review fenderhead! Couple of little questions for you if you don't mind: Does the unit colour, alter, or suck your tone when, for example, having no effects active? What was it you disliked about the tuner? Does it still track well? I use a Korg Pitchblack at the moment and was hoping one of these would be a decent replacement. Thanks again! [/quote] I was actually just going to post about tonesucking or not, because some guy on talkbass said he got it. Personally, I couldn't notice any difference. I plugged bass > B3 > amp, then bass > amp a few times, never noticed any colour or tonesucking. I have new strings, and the zing and twang were all there. As for the tuner, I have the Pitchblack too. You know how with the PB you get one red LED lighting just slightly if you are very slightly out of tune? That allows you to tune to perfection. With the B3 the screens are pretty useless besides telling you the note you're on, it's all about the lights on the top, and they always light fully, so if you are 1% high, the red light to the right will light full on, perhaps blink if it's very slight, but it's hard to have a fully gradual feel from it as I guess each light represents a certain percentage range... I won't say it's not accurate because when I moved the tuning peg up or down just a tiny touch from tuned, it noticed and signaled out of tune, but the whole concept is a bit weird... Makes me feel a bit uneasy and hard to trust as much as with a PB. The screens could have been used much better for this. On the M5, you have a horizontal bar and a big dot moves freely left to right on it, it's not 'stepped', so though not as good as the PB and hard to see the note from the height of my 1.88m, it's still pretty good. Also, on the B3, the tuner doesn't mute strings by default with the 1 sec press, you have to do a longer press of 2 secs for it to mute, not sure if this can be changed or not but it's a bit annoying. I like lightning fast D-dropping between songs

After a lot more testing of the modulations today, I decided it doesn't hold up to the M5 so I'm definitely returning it. They can actually get more noticeable than the M5's, especially in the lower E string, but the thing is, they just don't sound as natural. It seems like on the B3 the flanger/phaser/chorus effects are applied to a certain mid-high frequency range which becomes prominent, as if added to the clean sound. It sounds more "hi-fi" in a way, but a bit digital. That's why on my first review I thought I couldn't get any strong enough effect: I had accidentally knocked my amp mids knob to zero and it was completely cutting the frequencies somewhere around 600-800Hz (can't remember), and that was enough to make the effect almost disappear. On the M5, the effect actually sounds like it's lower on the frequency range and affecting a wider band (the whole band?) as well. It sounds much more organic and natural, even if a bit less noticeable sometimes. The range of depth, resonance and rate is wider on the B3 (minimum resonance on the B3 is close to maximum resonance on the M5, and maximum depth on the M5 is between 1 and 2 thirds on the B3, depending, speed gets much higher on the B3), but it just doesn't sound great going in those extremes... I wish I could actually have lower resonance than minimum on the B3. It goes into negative values, which I never saw before, but those make it thin at first and warbly at the end. I could sometimes get some decent tones, but they took loads of work tweaking lots of parameters, while on the M5, it sounds good with almost no tweaking straight away... I see it happening like with the 506 I had ages ago, every different gig or practice room I had to go and retweak everything. Though it's much easier on the B3, it would still be a pain compared with normal stompboxes, while the M5 is just like one... I also played around with the pitchshifters a few times again, and though I didn't get the behaviour I got the first time not being able to dial out the dry tone (no idea what the hell happened there) they are also much poorer than the M5's: they sound a bit like a keyboard, with a hint of reverb or chorus, and you get some slow trembling with one of them (like when you tune with harmonics and they aren't quite in tune yet). There's also sometimes slow tracking with one of them. I played a bit more with the auto-wahs, which are definitely better than the M5's, but it seemed there was always quite a strong boost on the lows I couldn't dial out. Haven't tested much to fix this, maybe it's ok. And I also started having some concerns regarding sturdiness... that glass over the screens is way too large for confort. I imagine a cable jack or a drum stand dropped over it and there it goes - massive scratch or broken. Much harder to happen with the G5/9/13 series, which look bomb proof. And I absolutely hate the way the tuner works. Now reposting from my first review: [i]Synths: Not bad sounding, especially the Korg-like model, definitely better than the M5, but the tracking kills them on fast notes, say above 200bpm at least, maybe lower, so I'll have to stick to my EHX Bass Micro Synth (and considering a Mark Bass for the presets and sawtooth which I prefer to square wave). If you make it so there's no filter closing or opening though, just the same steady frequency, tracking is not a problem...[/i] [i]Compressors: Better than the M5, but nothing too remarkable here either... Octave: Very good I thought, the only thing I tried where the B3 absolutely kills the M5. Distortions: Don't like them on the M5, don't like them here. They all sound fizzy and artificial to me even when you mix a lot of dry sound. And why on earth would anyone want to model the Boss Bass Overdrive??? Preamps: Sort of liked the Xotic Bass BB model, didn't care much for the others... The colour button setting on the M80 model is close but not good enough.[/i] [b]EDIT:[/b] I tested the M80 colour button model again and I now think it's actually pretty good, but I haven't AB'd it directly, there was some time between playing with the M80 and playing with the B3. [i]Just a word for [url="http://effectpowersupplies.com/"]effectpowersupplies.com[/url]: brilliant service as always.[/i] I haven't tried delays, reverbs, amp sims or double effects properly. There's also the drum patterns which I didn't try much but seemed ok, and the looper I didn't try at all.

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1328604186' post='1529682'] to get a real "woosh" from a flanger wouldn't you need some distortion too? [/quote] ok, maybe I should have said swirl

[quote name='Green Alsatian' timestamp='1328567973' post='1529415'] It's like the mix doesn't go fully wet, even turning the mix up to 100%. [/quote] That was my feeling too, maybe that's a good thing though as it doesn't lose any definition... Only practice in a studio or gig will tell...

I removed my review from above because I did some further testing due to some odd behaviour bugging me (like the dry sound always coming through with the pitchshifters at 100% wet). I was getting this odd behaviour the first time, but now I plugged the bass straight to the B3 (instead of having the M5 in between) and I didn't get that behaviour. Not sure what that was about, if related to the position in the chain after the M5 or not. I also managed to get a better 4 stage phaser and warped phaser than the M5's and close-enough chorus, though the 8-stage phaser is still thin compared to the M5's, same happening with the flanger. I'm now wondering if this may actually be a good thing with the woomph of a live amp, so I think I won't return it and give it a go in practice or live first to see what's better. The lack of thickening of the sound, though seeming a bit thin at home, may actually be a plus live, I'll see. I also need to test this tomorrow a bit louder during the day, as the neighbours were beginning to complain...

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1328546446' post='1528829'] I'm surprised that 1976 found the effects too subtle. [/quote] I'm surprised too. I get the feeling that they wanted to tailor this for bass so much in protecting the definition of the low notes and allowing the bass to cut through in the mix, that not only they added useful low cuts and mix knobs to almost everything, but they also toned the modulations down not to muddy the bass too much. I need a multi fx for modulation mostly, I could live with these phasers and choruses, they do the work even if poorer than the M5's, but the flanger is so much worse and so poor it was a killer for me.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1328533920' post='1528542'] Dude, I'm very sorry you are disappointed with the B3! Thing is, I was going to get one mainly for the amp sims... I don't really use FX at all, apart from a bit of light tube grit. Any chance of a review of the amp sims before you send it back?? [/quote] Sorry, factory reset, fingerprints wiped, carefully repacked and ready to go I really don't need the amp sims at all, maybe it's good for that, I don't know, wouldn't be able to evaluate their accuracy anyway...

(review temporarily removed as I do further testing)

[quote name='Benplaysbass' timestamp='1328484264' post='1528019'] This looks very interesting. I already have a B2.1u but I am liking the look of the B3. What I can't seem to find anywhere is what the casing is made of, any ideas? The B2.1u is a pretty sturdy lump of metal(well so far my feet haven't broke it). And I am still not sure of straight into the amp or in the effects loop. [/quote] It's metal. As I understand it, this kind of effects should always go between the bass and the amp, the fx loop is for rack fx. Can't remember the reason but I've read about this a few times before, and I've always had horrible sound and noise whenever I tried using floor fx in the fx loop of my SWR 350x.

Daaamn I'm well impressed with the Sansamp tone in this video, especially the second set of settings: [url="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CRHgXB2fWI4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRHgXB2fWI4[/url]

I think wahs are ok with an expression pedal, I prefer my 105q but I find them nearly as good. For some things they are actually more versatile as you can set how low or high they go on the sweep. My biggest gripe is you have to first activate them on the M5/9 and then move your foot to the expression pedal, which makes it a bit unpractical. I love to have the 105q sitting there and just put my foot on it whenever I feel like and it activates itself, then deactivates when I take the foot off...

I have proper stompboxes for the staples of my sound (a distortion and a synth, sometimes wah) and use the M5 (previously an M9) for fx I only need in a song or two so no point in buying pedals just as expensive just for that. I use the modulations mostly. Delays and reverbs are excellent but I don't really need them. Distortions aren't brilliant, wahs are ok, synths are unusable rubbish IMO and auto-wahs are also unusable due to the ridiculous volume boost. I also use the whammy in stationery mode (like a pitchshifter) to practice songs my band plays in different keys than the original, and to play a drop D song without actually having to tune down.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1328276777' post='1524800'] Thanks for this Richard... what's the Markbass amp sim like? Authentic? And does it recreate the VLE and VPF filters? Thanks! [/quote] In the manual there are no controls for such, but there is a colour control, not sure if related...

[quote name='fxpedal.co.uk' timestamp='1328274742' post='1524751'] OK guys, here's my (very brief) first impressions. This unit is better than it has any right to be at the price point. I haven't spent long with it, but the quality shines through. Obviously I was already familiar with the G3 and many things remain the same. It is refreshingly well tailored for bass and the effects are very usable. There are some very good compressors from subtle to squish. All of the overdrives, distortions and fuzzes have clean blends. And the amp sims sound good. I didn't take any notes so the ones that stand out in my mind as I write this are: 1) The Bass Big Muff: not only is it an accurate reproduction of the original, it also solves the volume issue with the clean blend. Very simply there is a separate parameter for clean level one top of the standard gain and level controls. 2) Sansamp model includes 'mid' frequency to avoid the sometimes too-scooped Sansamp sound. To me ears, though, the Ampeg SVT amp model sounded more 'Ampeggy' than the Sansamp. 3) The Gallien Krueger model sounded great and stood out for me among all the amp models. 4) Clean blended Rat anyone? Sounds very good. 5) Modulations sound good. A good variety of choruses/phasers etc so sure to be one that you'll like At £150, this is priced almost at 'beginner' level yet one could gig it quite happily. Sure, individual pedals will always win out (I hope so, or we're out of business ) but, for the money, this is brilliant. All the features of a Line 6 M9, tailored for bass and priced lower than the Line 6 M5. It's a winner! [/quote] Thanks for that. Did you have a play with the synths? How's the tracking?

In their terms and conditions they reserve the right to charge 10% on returns... I'll wait until some other store has it, so I only lose the postage if I don't like it.

Thanks, that was a cheap bass at the store so I couldn't really control much. I didn't perceive the D and G strings to be quieter without compression. Curious to hear from any owners of this pedal: do you get a sort of even behaviour from the LEDs across the full range?

A bit but only so it sounded nice, I don't think so much that it justified this happening, but yeah, something to check for next time... that bass sounded like sh*t so I had to compensate a little, was too trebly.

So I played with this pedal and an active bass for a while in a shop today. Really loved the sound of it, however I noticed something weird... I started by setting it so that the LEDs would light just up to the yellow, to avoid distortion with maximum compression (and I noticed if I increased the input and all LEDs lit, I could hear some distortion). So what I found weird is this: if I set it so that the open E affects the LEDs like that, I get just a couple of LEDs lighting up on the open A and nothing at all when playing anywhere on the D and G strings. I also can't hear the compression (because it's not really acting) on those strings. So it sounded lovely on the lower half of the E string, I tried several settings with the Attack and Release and Ratio and could hear the difference and pick my favourites, but above that register, it didn't seem like it was doing much at all! Am I doing something wrong? If not, this pedal is in dire need of a dual band setting!

I think by focused you mean it's a bit too sharp, I think it's the lack of an amp and head in this recording, because when I play this in practice or a gig the amp adds roundness and bass and it sounds huge! In the original most of the synthiness comes from the keys I believe (including that little hammer-on and pull off on the G note which the bass doesn't do but the keys and I think the guitar do)... I think when they play live the bass is clean but I'm not 100% sure.

Ok, I surrender to Soundcloud. Here's mine: [url="http://soundcloud.com/1976fenderhead/deeper-underground"]http://soundcloud.co...per-underground[/url] The tracking and fuzz make the note attack a bit weird, doesn't exactly flow brilliantly, but I think the tone is closer... Yours sounds a bit muffled?