slobluesine

they work a treat don't they, some folks say you only need one side plugged, gonna get me a spare set made, has the guitar player told you to turn down yet

you've NEVER played upright bass? cant believe your even thinking about doing this but hey ho, he who dares.

got any pics of the covers artisan?

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1343153165' post='1746248'] I think BRX has nailed it here. Failing that, if you're still struggling, try giving head. [/quote] another good reason to get this sucker tattoo of my head

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1343148040' post='1746126'] Given up on what? If earning a few bob isn't important to the band, why bother to jump through all those extra hoops you describe to get a paid gig? Who pays for all the time you would have to spend marketing the band, sending out flyers and/or demo CD/DVDs, finding venues outside your home town, emailing or phoning them and generally hustling to get a paid gig. Lots of extra hassle for relatively little reward. [/quote] bear in mind promoters, landlords, agents, managers and the like have zero respect for musicians. some of the time it's the green eyed monster but more often they just see musicians as suckers. i've been trying to get the sucker tattoo off my forehead for years

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1342955597' post='1743066'] I haven't read the thread, but we've had this question a few times before. My answer is always the same. I don't pay for free. It costs me money to gig and someone else is making money out of me gigging so I get paid or I don't play. This is the same for my covers bands and originals bands. If playing in a band is your hobby then I can see why my rules don't apply, but as soon as some promoters see bands playing for nothing they'll expect everyone else to do the same, which is bad for the rest of us. Offering to play a freebie to get into a gig is also a bad idea. If you have a sense of your worth as a musician and you think the band is good then you should expect to be financially rewarded for your talent. [/quote] nail on its head, afaik hobbies are for the bedroom and the garage and who would expect to get paid for their hobby? soon as you start competing with other bands for paying gigs it aint a hobby any more. I gig cos i love it, but it also has to pay some bills, i don’t have a high paying day job to subsidise a hobby these days.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1342900644' post='1742647'] If your doing covers with any degree of proficiency then IMO you should be paid. My covers band never plays for free. Even when we've done benefits, we've been given enough to cover our expenses and been fed and watered for the evening. We played a house party last weekend and got paid for that. When it comes to original music then the situation is a lot more flexible. It's a hobby, it's art, it's promotion etc. It's up to each musician/band to decide for themselves under which circumstances they'll play for free and when they expect to be paid. What I will say is that if you are entertaining the only reason to play for free is because you want to. Apart from a handful of gigs during our first year in existence The Terrortones have always received something towards our expenses at the very least when we play. Even if the money we are getting isn't going to completely cover the costs of doing the gig we know that we'll be able to sell enough CDs, T-shirts and other merch to make up the shortfall. We are able to do this because we know that simply being musically accomplished is only half the story, and we put on one hell of a show when we play, which in turn helps us to sell the merch afterwards and almost always either gets us asked back for another gig. In fact nearly every gig that we have played has resulted in either a repeat booking (for more money as often as not) or has opened the door to a booking elsewhere - frequently both! [/quote] i never thought of it as covers or originals, i would guess most cover bands gigs are free admission and they still manage to find cash to pay the bands.

i play lots of different types of music with lots of different bands and i'm expected to play more and more for free, which is a problem, as i can't afford to loose money, expenses would be good. again i'm surprised that musos are happy to play for free when punters are paying to hear them?

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1342896716' post='1742591'] Can the OP please make it clear that he's talking about originals bands here? [/quote] it started as a general question.... "anyone else here totally pissed off with musicians who play for free?" no foot stamping, toy throwing, just a Q on the subject of 'gettin paid' got my answer folks and seems i'm in the minority, no probs, i'll get over it

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1342894453' post='1742561'] This is old news mate. SOME of the musicians are not being paid, some are. It is wrong not to give the musicians expenses at least. Are we talking about the same issues here? And before you ask, I know, and play with, musicians involved in the Olympics, some paid well, some not paid at all, for different musical activities. I think your OP was unclear if you are talking about these types of scenario. Anyway, Johnson was absolutely correct, you are now stamping your feet and can't accept other people feel different to you about this philosophical/economic issue, so what's the f***ing point in discussing it? [/quote] i thought the Olympics was still a huge problem for musicians, but yep, we digress my original gripe was... 'gigs where people pay to get in, sound, lighting, security, bar staff, EVERYONE gets paid except the band' but most musos here think that's ok, have to say i'm surprised.

[url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2012/jul/19/olympics-london-2012-musicians-pay?fb=native&CMP=FBCNETTXT9038"]http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2012/jul/19/olympics-london-2012-musicians-pay?fb=native&CMP=FBCNETTXT9038[/url]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1342886001' post='1742408'] There is no advantage. Just circumstance. Bar staff etc get paid as that’s their job. Bleedin' liberals would kick up a fuss if they didn't get at least minimum wage. Playing in the band unless you are a Pro is not a job. It's a hobby. when was the last time a Train spotter got paid? [/quote] FFS!! dont start me on train spotters, OK< OK play for free...

thread is getting too long folks and so missing the point, sorry, but i dont get the advantage of playing for free, thanks for the replies all

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1342884011' post='1742369'] Running a small venue is not easy or very financially rewarding, many go down, and most of the small London venues I play with Kit or London Zulu are clearly doing it because they believe in putting on live music as a good healthy thing, and the owners are quite passionate about it. I would rather have good places for fledgling originals bands to play but not get paid, or paid little, for playing, than make these venues unviable because of some sort of mandatory musicians union fee for bands playing. Next thing you know bands are out and cheap DJs are in. It's not just one band playing mate, it's often four or five in one evening. Are you suggesting a small venue gives £1000 of its profit away to the five fledgling originals bands in an evening? It won't work, it never has. Once the band develops a following, then they can hire bigger venues and services and put on bigger shows, but no doubt you'll be pissed off about that too as you probably consider that to be 'pay to play', which of course it is. [/quote] do Kit or London Zulu charge admission? the reason bar staff , security, lighting and sound get paid is that they refuse to do it for free

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1342880411' post='1742318'] Hope this doesn't end up like another of the OPs previous threads where he stamps his feet & goes on & on for page after page demanding money until someone gives up & pays to shut him up. [/quote] this is a general discusssion big stu, no outcome expected,

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1342880758' post='1742324'] Depends doesn't it. And I don't think the situation you describe is particularly prevalent, I agree many bands get paid little, a percentage of the door or bar takings perhaps. But it doesn't bother me. Good bands with marketability will give themselves a chance, and the crap falls by the wayside, at least they got a chance to play. The venue and its staff are providing a quantifiable service with associated costs, the band are purely qualitative, if they give the punters a good experience there's a chance they will eventually get to a position where they can demand payment in return for the economic benefits of supplying an audience who will pay the venue and its associated suppliers. If you're in an originals band trying to build an audience and get exposure, then of course you are going to play for free. In the same way fledgling sound or lighting engineers may work or shadow for free to get some experience and break into their industries and develop enough skills and reputation to get paid. One does a sort of cost/benefit analysis and makes a decision about financial reward for your art. Once you have a reputation with monetary value in terms of demand then you'd be a fool, or naive, to work for free. I suppose if Anthony Jackson decided he had enough wedge and offered his services for free you could argue he might be putting some other less lauded sessioniers out of business, but there are only so many hours in the day so it would have little impact, as someone who wanted Marcus Miller on their music would pay for him regardless of Anthony's economic proposition, this is art after all. [/quote] but why would you not expect to get some of the takings?

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1342878994' post='1742290'] Most decent gig venue bars seem to employ musicians as bar staff, the shift work fits in a bit better with going off to play music sometimes, and a boss involved in music will understand. [/quote] so it's acceptable for a muso working a bar to get paid while the muso on stage doesn't?

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1342878516' post='1742279'] I I suppose it's because playing in a band is fun, whereas working behind a bar isn't. (FWIW, I rarely play for nowt, but I can understand why people do) [/quote] but bar staff generally cant play music and a gig is about music not shifting beer, or maybe i've got it all wrong

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1342877966' post='1742263'] so I go say to him. "I've got a few mates together we want to play for shits and giggles" He says okay. I then go "Okay then that'll be £250" No offence but seriously you need to realise their is no set in stone "Employment rules" when it comes to music. Imagine all the guys and girls in a Dublin pub with Banjos Fiddles acoustics and maybe a tin whistle and a Bodhrán turning around at the end of the night and asking the landlord for payment. Seriously if music equals money in every circumstance my first reaction is your a greedy sod and in it for the wrong reasons. [/quote] as i said on page1.... its the gigs where people pay to get in, sound, lighting, security, bar staff, EVERYONE gets paid except the band

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1342876985' post='1742236'] So wait. If I get a few mates together for a bit of craic. My first gig in 10 years just doing it for shits and giggles I should ask the landlord for money [/quote] eerrrr YEP!!! pubs regularly pay bands if they ask, then again if they offer to play for free they think maybe every other band should play for free

[quote name='waynepunkdude' timestamp='1342876092' post='1742210'] No one is forcing you to play if you don't want to do the gig don't but don't go around judging those who do it for the fun. [/quote] point taken, i kinda think it would help the cause if bands refused to play for free tho?

'festival' gigs seem to be the worst, your gonna enjoy your self so you dont deserve to be paid,

[quote name='Cameronj279' timestamp='1342875415' post='1742195'] I can't, but I would at least enjoy playing rather than sulking in the house alone wishing I was playing a gig. [/quote] i'd rather not do the freebie, i can't justify loosing the cash and the fact that everyone is getting paid pisses me off. i turned down two 'festival' deps this weekend, neither of them even paid expenses

[quote name='Spike Vincent' timestamp='1342875275' post='1742190'] You're not doing it right..... [/quote] yup, i'm off on a sound tech course asap

[quote name='Cameronj279' timestamp='1342875237' post='1742189'] I'd rather play for free than not play. I took up music because I enjoy it not to make money. I would much rather play for money obviously. [/quote] how can you afford to play for free? playing for free means it costs you....